Immigration raid at parachute plant nets 57

Immigration raid at parachute plant nets 57-attachment0

A raid by agents with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) at an Asheville-based defense contractor resulted in the arrest of 57 suspected illegal-immigrant workers, an ICE official told Xpress this afternoon.

The Mills Manufacturing Corporation, which produces parachutes for the Department of Defense, was raided around 7:30 a.m., said ICE spokesperson Ivan L. Ortiz-Delgado. Ortiz-Delgado would not divulge details of the investigation, but said that “we have been working on this for awhile.” (The plant is pictured here in a file photo by Jonathan Welch.)

Meanwhile, an e-mail from Asheville City Council member Carl Mumpower indicates he may have supplied a tip-off to federal authorities after he was contacted by a Mills Manufacturing employee.

“We developed a connection with ICE in Charlotte on Mills Manufacturing. I am grateful for their follow through and will continue to press this issue,” Mumpower wrote in an e-mail.  Mumpower is known in Council meetings for his vocal stance against undocumented workers.

Ortiz-Delgado said the manufacturing plant itself is not under investigation because the suspected illegal workers produced fraudulent documents when applying for jobs there.

“We don’t expect [the company] to be document experts,” he said. “We could say Mills is a victim too.”

Ortiz-Delgado said the arrestees were processed at the Henderson County Jail, and that 29 were released because of health or child-care issues. Those released were served summons to appear before an immigration judge to determine if they will be deported. The remaining 28 will be detained until their court appearances.

Though a press release announcing the raid was circulated by the city of Asheville’s communication department, the city was not involved in the operation, according to an e-mail by Lauren Bradley, assistant to the City Manager. According to that press release, anyone wanting information on family members arrested in the raid should call ICE at (704) 679-6140.

The press release from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and the e-mail from Mumpower, can be found below.

(In August 2007, Xpress reporter Hal L. Millard wrote this story on local defense contractors, including the Mills Manufacturing plant.)

— Brian Postelle, staff writer

———————————————————————

[ICE] Statement

ICE arrests illegal aliens employed by Asheville Department of Defense Contractor

ASHEVILLE, NC. – Special agents from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) are in the process of conducting a targeted enforcement operation at Mills Manufacturing Corporation (MMC), a military government contractor responsible for the manufacturing of parachutes for the Department of Defense.

The operation is based on an ICE investigation that has revealed that illegal aliens are employed at MMC. The company is not a target of the investigation and has been fully cooperative.

Because agents are still in the process of apprehending illegal alien workers, an arrest total is not available at this time. We will be able to provide more information later today with arrest totals.

ICE special agents are extensively questioning detainees to determine if there are humanitarian concerns. Child care and medical issues will be evaluated carefully on a case-by-case basis.

Family members wanting information regarding those arrested today may contact ICE by dialing (704) 679-6140.

# ICE #
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement was established in March 2003 as the largest investigative arm of the Department of Homeland Security.  ICE is comprised of five integrated divisions that form a 21st century law enforcement agency with broad responsibilities for a number of key homeland security priorities.

———————————————————————

From: DrMumpower
To: LBradley@ashevillenc.gov, AshevilleNCCouncil@ashevillenc.gov
CC: GJackson@ashevillenc.gov, jrichardson@ashevillenc.gov
Sent: 8/12/2008 9:19:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: Re: ICE operation at Mills Manufacturing

Thanks for passing on this news.  A Mills Manufacturing employee contacted me some weeks ago when I raised concerns about the County and City overlooking the majority of workers on the parking garage, water upgrades, and other major downtown projects not speaking English – with the probability that most were not legal workers.  We developed a connection with ICE in Charlotte on Mills Manufacturing.  I am grateful for their follow-through and will continue to press this issue.

As an aside – my parachute in Vietnam was made by Mills Manufacturing in Asheville.  It is wrong that this company has so flagrantly ignored immigration law and the importance of employing American workers.

Carl Mumpower
Asheville City Council

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98 thoughts on “Immigration raid at parachute plant nets 57

  1. LOKEL

    So a Federal judge releases 29 of these people because of health or offspring issues.

    These are liars who were well enough to get all the way to NC from wherever they are from.

    They have falsified US documents, and have been doing so in some cases for as long as 5 years!

    Then that same judge believes these liars when they claim to be ill or a parent and lets them go with every expectation that those who have been released will show up in immigration court in CHARLOTTE NC months from now!

    It’s time to rethink these Judges’ tenure in my opinion.

    They have forged documents yet a judge believes them?!?

  2. Ed Weirdness

    Mills should be investigated thoroughly after this. Only a moron would suggest that the HR department was “fooled” by fake documents from 57 different applicants. Particularly seeing as how many of the 57 had only limited English language skills. Write your representatives in the House and Senate and demand they pass the SAVE Act!

  3. DonM

    I have zero problems with illegals being captured and deported. It’s a start but I believe that businesses that hire an inordinate number of illegals bear close scrutiny and should take a hit, too.

    Go ICE!

  4. Reality Check

    Way to go. Gotta start somewhere. HR departments all over the State are shaking in their shoes.

  5. Reality Check

    Excellent oversimplification Jason. Name another country that has open borders? Every other country will jail and deport with malice if you get caught committing that crime.

  6. nwkerr2005

    This what we will continue to get when pull the lever for democrats. Nanci Pelosi will do anything to sell out our country for future democrat illegal voters.

  7. Texas Veteran

    There are some ignorant people in North Carolina, I’m sorry but their writing is horrendous and absolutely stupid, including Dr. Mumpower. He should be investigated himself, as I’m certain he got his Doctorate from some online degree service.

    These people are NOT criminals, they are migrants that are coming to our country to Better their Lot. They are children of God and they are all human beings. “ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.”

    Mexicans have been coming to the US for over 150 years and they are interested in becoming Americans. Listen to that girl who’s auntie was caught in these horrible raids. Her English is perfect and her demeanor is AMERICAN. She is an AMERICAN people and you should be ashamed of yourselves for suggesting otherwise.

    If you want to be educated on the subject, then at least find some reasonable justification for saying such stupidities, otherwise, please keep your bigotry to yourselves. Years from now you will be embarrassed for saying such nonsense.

    I received an email yesterday that had a great radio show and I’ll share it with you folks, since most of you hate to read. Click on the following for an EDUCATED explanation of this issue.

    http://www.backstoryradio.org/?p=74

  8. Dionysis

    Employers that hire ANY illegals should be subject to investigation and sanction, nevermind an “inordinate number” (who decides what is ‘inordinate’?).

    No one should begrudge a person for wanting to better themselves and their families, but like immigrants of the past, they need to adhere to the law. People should be focusing their ire on the slimy employers that whine and snivel that they “can’t compete” without breaking the law and hiring cheap illegals. Take away the economic attraction by coming down on employers with as much vigor as is currently directed at the illegals and chances are, this problem would soon mitigate itself.

  9. straightup

    you don’t know why they moved here. in addition there are so many that are waiting to get here through the proper channels. Is that fair? If you are going to work here, you should have the proper work documentation. With the exception of a few knuckleheads, we are compasionate to the plight of many of these “immigrants”. But we are slowly strangling ourselves by not taking care of problems such as this. ICE program is a good thing.

  10. bobaloo

    If you want to be educated on the subject, then at least find some reasonable justification for saying such stupidities, otherwise, please keep your bigotry to yourselves.

    Ah, the last, best hope for people who argue solely on emotion: Calling people uneducated and bigoted.

    No one should begrudge a person for wanting to better themselves and their families, but like immigrants of the past, they need to adhere to the law

    Bingo.

  11. bobaloo

    Click on the following for an EDUCATED explanation of this issue.

    Yeah, that was totally objective.
    Actually, I wouldn’t know since I stopped listening when they branded people as “anti-immigrant” for objecting to illegal aliens.

  12. Reality Check

    Our social programs are log jamming with this mass migration. That is a big reason for ‘controlled’ immigration. Its called ‘planning’. Society’s growth takes some ‘planning’.

    The EU is beginning to suffer the same dilemma .. even worse as their educated are leaving and the 2nd and 3rd world are moving in. The mid and long term math on funding the social programs doesn’t work.

    Playing the race/bigotry card is the last ditch argument when you have nothing else better to say.

  13. chuck

    (sarcasm font) They steal our jobs and our unemployment! (sarcasm font)

  14. Texas Veteran

    “Our social programs are log jamming with this mass migration. That is a big reason for ‘controlled’ immigration. Its called ‘planning’. Society’s growth takes some ‘planning’.”

    Realitycheck,

    We are talking here about 2% of the total population, which is composed of 304 million. Here we are talking about 57 people for crying out loud.

    If you want to talk about planning a society, why not get all of those folks outta the trailer and into the workforce instead of collecting social security benefits, welfare, and trying to collect on some phoney claims. Let us at least admit that we’ve gotten soft as Americans.

  15. Dionysis

    “Isn’t great when we arrest people for working?”

    A valid point; what would be a better approach, however, would be to arrest the employers that hire illegals, at least knowingly. And the excuse that a government contractor (of all things) doesn’t have the expertise to actually validate work eligibility is pathetic.

  16. Reality Check

    Jason … Your second attempt at the same point still has all the same flaws and omissions as the first. Maybe they’re just attempts to create dialog. Your grade on the debate so far is a C minus.

  17. I’m not debating anything- I’m stating a fact that somehow in our country, going to work and trying to better yourself and your family (something that we in a society place a premium upon) is somehow illegal.

    Great world we live in, huh?

  18. possum

    Texas Veteran-maybe you should be educated. This is a very serious problem in the southeastern states. My son lives in Texas and he agrees we have a problem with illegal aliens. We should be willing to welcome legal immigrants. Maybe you should grow up and look at the big picture. We in the United States are not the reason Mexico has so much illegal activity.

  19. Reality Check

    Yeah but, yeah but, yeah but. All the aforementioned are in the country legally. Nobody can name me any other civilized country who lets this happen. There’s a reason for that I discussed already.

    America is soft .. so soft that the people are leaning too heavily on social programs and its punishing the productivity that made our economy able to carry everyone like this.

    So many are soft and leeching off others work that an onslaught from another country is too much. Carrying and additional 2% of the population’s health and education is a giant check to write with so few check writers left. We are on the downward slope of the curve and more social programs and recipients will make the slope steeper.

    We’ve had it too good too long. I guess we’re getting ready to pay the piper.

  20. LOKEL

    Dionysis it would be very difficult to prove that an employer knowingly hired these refugees!

    Just as at the Mills location, as long as the papers submitted at least look plausible, the employer is off the hook (the immigration field officer stated this in different words on WLOS last night at 11): this is why the management at Mills is not being prosecuted…. and, by all accounts they actually cooperated with ICE by assembling their employees in a central location prior to the arrival of the agents.

    As far as the government contract is concerned: the USGAO has repeatedly found that the governmental contracting process is as broken as our immigration policy.

  21. bobaloo

    Maybe they’re just attempts to create dialog.

    Obviously you haven’t read anything by Bugg before.

  22. bobaloo

    If you want to talk about planning a society, why not get all of those folks outta the trailer and into the workforce instead of collecting social security benefits, welfare, and trying to collect on some phoney claims.

    What does that have to do with illegal immigration?
    You’re right though, those damned old and disabled people need to get off their asses. Not to mention the lazy welfare recipients (a majority of whom are minorities. Whose the bigot now?).

    In any case the common figure for illegals, not counting children, is 20 million, with estimates going to 38 million. The highest I’ve seen is 50 million.
    So at those numbers you’re looking at anywhere from appx 7% to 13% of the population.

  23. Texas Veteran

    “In any case the common figure for illegals, not counting children, is 20 million, with estimates going to 38 million. The highest I’ve seen is 50 million. So at those numbers you’re looking at anywhere from appx 7% to 13% of the population.”

    This is factually incorrect, even according to the census numbers, including those from ICE. The total “illegal population” is 12 million tops, 40% are visa-over stayers and not Latino. This includes children.

    Also, the so-called minority populations are 13% for African Americans and 14% for Latinos. The vast majority are so-called “white folks” and a whole lot of them are poor. What, you think all white people are middle class making over $75,000 per year? Heck no my friend, most folks are poor, especially in North and South Carolina.

    The south is full of trailer parks, people living off mayonnaise and mustard sandwiches, living off the government dole. This is not a bigoted statement but one of fact. And how could it be otherwise since the majority of the population is “white.”

  24. Reality Check

    I think I saw a big line of illegals a while back who were waiting to give the Census takers all their personal information. NOT!!! Try again.

  25. Reality Check

    Jason – you’re failing debate now. Try to stay on topic. You’ll never be happy if you keep skipping your thoughts around like that. There are immigration laws. You obviously think there should be none .. am I correct?

  26. Eddie Brown

    As jason Bugg said, “Going to work and trying to better yourself and your family” Is indeed what all Illegal immigrants desire. However, this is also the wish and desire of every human being on planet Earth. Hence the need for immigration law. Immigration law is designed (partly) to prevent any one particular labor sector from becoming saturated to the point that Citizen workers or lagal immigrants find themselves overwhelmed by an unusual amount of competition for jobs. just as the U.S. can not allow every bright, ambitious doctor from around the globe who seeks employment in the U.S. medical sector without some form of mechanism in place (i.e. immigration law.) to control the flow. The same rings true for the manual labor sectors millions of hard working citizens and legal immigrants depend on to make a living. As an American carpenter who has had to deal with the hassle of competing with massive amounts of Illegal aliens who refuse to be bound or slowed by immigration law, I’ve learned this simple concept well.

  27. I think I saw a big line of illegals a while back who were waiting to give the Census takers all their personal information. NOT!!! Try again.

    If they were white and avoiding the Census they’d be considered Ron Paul supporters.

  28. Our current immigration laws are very bad laws. They are capricious, they are inhumane, they are inefficient, and they have all the economic intelligence of a turnip. They do not allow the average person anything approaching a realistic chance and time period to legally immigrate to the US. In fact, I wager that if the average native-born American was taken from the US, and had to face the bullcrap other immigrants face to to get back in, this country would be much more empty.
    I am saddened to hear that peaceful hardworking people, who were working hard to protect our armed forces, were arrested under unjust laws. My heart, prayers, and solidarity goes out to them.

  29. bobaloo

    fmerenda,
    First off, we’re already off topic so I won’t be expounding further than this.

    Regarding the article you cited, not only is it 12 years old, it also fails to cite which study they were basing this on. In addition, it says that (for 1996 anyway), whites make up 48% of welfare recipients. So that would leave 52% of non-whites on welfare rolls. Hmm. In any case, it’s all pretty proportionate considering the make-up of the population vis a vis race.

    Also, I dug up this article from 1998 in the NYT that says the situation is reversing:
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E02E7DB1F39F934A15754C0A96E958260

    Here’s a better one from 2000. The stats are near the bottom of the page.
    http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/901/Who-Receives-Benefits-AN-OVERVIEW-WELFARE-PROGRAM-PARTICIPATION.html

    But that wasn’t the point anyway (because I don’t see this to be about race), Texas Vet was basically saying that if we want to really improve society we should kick all the lazy, poor, white trailer park residents off welfare and open the borders or something.
    This after calling those that oppose illegal immigration uneducated bigot nativists.

    TexVet:
    The south is full of trailer parks, people living off mayonnaise and mustard sandwiches, living off the government dole.

    Seriously, where do you get off calling other people bigots when you make statements like this?
    You would be foaming at the mouth if someone made a statement about inner city minorities in the same vein.

    I’m stating a fact that somehow in our country, going to work and trying to better yourself and your family (something that we in a society place a premium upon) is somehow illegal.
    Next thing you know they’ll start arresting people for ID theft and forgery. It never ends!

  30. @bobaloo

    Ok, let me re-phrase that, because technically *I was wrong*.

    The largest *single group* of welfare recipients are whites.

    How’s that? :)

  31. Texas Veteran

    bobaloo,

    The earlier statement about improving society was not my own, but a rebuttal to an earlier suggestion that reaked of eugenics.

    What I said was not bigotted but a statement of fact: companies hire immigrants because they come here to work and do not complain and ask for smoke breaks every 30 minutes. Unlike those folks that live on government checks and are waiting for some settlement, immigrants work and they work hard.

    This raid is ALL ABOUT RACE and the small number of people that were rounded up, 57 hard working folks, is illustrative of this fact. The total undocumented population, according to ICE statistics, accounts for about 2% of the total population. We are debating about such a small number.

    Moreover, 40,000 immigrants serve in the US armed forces and now these folks are fighting our wars. I say we are hypocrites!

  32. bobaloo

    TexVet:

    The earlier statement about improving society was not my own, but a rebuttal to an earlier suggestion that reaked of eugenics.

    No, improving society by kicking mayo and mustard sandwich eating trailer park folks off social welfare was your own bigoted statement.
    The post you responded to was about orderly immigration being a necessary tool for healthy societal planning and growth.
    Basically, opening the floodgates isn’t good for our society. There is nothing remotely relating to eugenics in that statement.

    companies hire immigrants because they come here to work and do not complain and ask for smoke breaks every 30 minutes.

    Plus, they can’t form unions, demand workers rights, can be fired for no reason if they complain and work for less than a living wage.

    Do you not see the hypocrisy in this? Open border advocates want the illegal aliens to be left alone yet ignore the deplorable exploitation and sub-classification foisted upon them by their undocumented status.

  33. Texas Veteran

    First, let us quit being melodramatic. No one is proposing open borders or opening the floodgates to anything. Again, this population that are you so up in arms against composes about 2% of the total populace of 304 million.

    An orderly society, whatever that means, is discourse that harkens back to the nineteenth century. No one talks that way anymore, by the way. We should be talking about the economy and how this is important for an organized and harmonious society.

    Secondly, you are right about the lack of workers rights, but this is a rhetorical move on your part. Earlier, all of your language was against minorities and against these undocumented workers. The way to solve this is to apply McCain’s immigration reform plan and bring these folks into our system.

    But again, deportation and raids are not the answer.

  34. bobaloo

    Earlier, all of your language was against minorities

    Kindly quote anything I’ve written that is against minorities. You can’t.

    Organized and harmonious = orderly.

    Seriously, it you really wanted to talk about economic impacts of illegal immigration you wouldn’t have started off by labeling anti-amnesty advocates as uneducated bigots.

  35. Reality Check

    TV and Bugg are looking for some Utopia. If they actually read that book, they’ll find it doesn’t exist and all we can do is what human nature allows. The US is still the best place to live and has the most reasonable immigration policies compared to the rest of the world that actually exists.

    I’ll throw it out again … for the 3rd time … name a country with a more liberal immigration situation? Being deported is the nicest thing that the rest of the world would do.

    I can sense the responses now … more emotional and Utopian pipe dreams that could only exist in ‘imagination land’. Our job is to live in the real world.

  36. chuck

    this is an issue for people to complain about, even thought nothing will change. Our entire economy is tied up in ‘illegals’ The current President, the one worshipped by people who hate illegals, has done nothing to slow down illegal immigration, because he understands how much our economy needs it. This WILL NOT CHANGE anytime soon, even with a new administration. The fact that a company that contracts with the Military was using cheap, illegal labor should be a perfect case in point. Everything you buy is at the price it’s at because of cheap labor. Even groceries at the grocery store.
    This is just an issue for powerless bigots to get up in arms about. They have no power to change it, so they make rediculous, xenophobic, racist claims.

  37. bobaloo

    Bigots, xenophobes, racists, nativists and uneducated. Even eugenics.

    Keep ‘em comin’. You devalue any argument with every ad hominem attack.

  38. Reality Check

    You can’t blame it on W. All of Washington DC is on the take from the Employers who hire. The profits they make by exploiting illegals go straight into every elected officials pocket with a wink and a nod.

  39. Texas Veteran

    Bobaloo said “Not to mention the lazy welfare recipients (a majority of whom are minorities. Whose the bigot now?).

    In any case the common figure for illegals, not counting children, is 20 million, with estimates going to 38 million. The highest I’ve seen is 50 million. So at those numbers you’re looking at anywhere from appx 7% to 13% of the population.”

    You asked to “Kindly quote anything I’ve written that is against minorities.” And here are two pieces that you wrote that were against minorities.

    The first is that you suggested that welfare recipients were mostly minorities, which I assume you are suggesting this population that we are speaking of. This is factually incorrect since so called “illegals” cannot collect such benefits. Most of the folks on welfare do not include this population that you are so angry about.

    Secondly, those numbers that you quote are hyperbole and not substantiated by the numbers. I quote numbers from the census bureau and from ICE. Yours are incorrect and simply exaggerations.

    Here are two pieces of evidence that you asked for.

  40. travelah

    Texas Vet,
    You clearly are outside your element here. Following the raid on the illegal employment situation, that employer is now overwhelmed with legal job applicants from citizens who need employment. Every time you pull up to MacDonalds or any other fast service business, you will see several illegals displacing US workers. Look at any construction site and you will a situation where US jobs have been taken from US citizens.
    The solution to this problem is to enforce the employment laws already in place in this country. When I started my last job, I had to provide proof of citizenship with either a birth certificate abstract , a social security card or an INS green card. For benefits I actually had to provide a copy of birth certificates for my children and a copy of my marriage license for my wife. Please tell me why it is unreasonable for an employer to require the same things from your friends south of the border?

  41. Texas Veteran

    I’ve responded to a number of these posts but the moderators have not allowed two of them to go through. I didn’t use foul language but responded intelligently. Let me recommend some historical perspective to this for the majority of those that have a historical memory to two weeks. The first piece is an editorial that was published in today’s Washington Post. Enough Said.

    http://mexicanexpulsions.blogspot.com/

  42. Got this in a forwarded email this AM – feel free to pass it on –

    Feds Invade Buncombe County
    57 Members of OUR Community to Be Deported

    On Tuesday, August 12, 2008, agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement raided Mills Manufacturing Corp, a parachute manufacturing plant in Woodfin. They arrested 57 residents of Buncombe County on charges pertaining to their legal status as residents. These people, most of whom have already been bussed to Charlotte or Atlanta, are facing imminent deportation, causing loss of providers for their households, separation of children and parents, shattered families, and loss of hard-working, contributing members of our community.

    We, the concerned and outraged people of the greater Asheville community, feel it essential to dispel some of the vicious and pervasive myths about the role immigrants play in our society.

    Myths and Realities of Immigration

    MYTH: Immigrants take jobs and opportunity away from Americans
    REALITY: A recent national study found that in the last 15 years immigration did not hurt job opportunities for Americans. Most immigrant workers are concentrated in industries that are typically the most dangerous and lowest paying jobs. In NC, Duke University found “that since the mid-1990s, industrial sectors have been flagging largely because of…free trade measures passed by the US. Because of a combination of plant closings, cost-cutting, consolidation…, North Carolina lost 100,000 jobs in the textile industry and 70,000 more in the apparel industry.

    MYTH: Immigrants are breaking the law
    REALITY: Entering the US without documents is a civil offense. Labeling immigrants as lawbreakers penalizes the individual rather than recognizing the larger economic and political forces at play. Each year, only 10,000 visas are available to low-skilled immigrant workers, while the market hires 450,000 low- skilled immigrant workers a year. Corporate and even local businesses benefit from this ready flow of undocumented, low-wage workers.

    MYTH: Immigrants don’t pay taxes
    REALITY: Immigrants pay taxes in the form of income, property, and sales taxes at the federal and state level. They pay the same real estate taxes and sales taxes as everyone else. The Social Security Administration has estimated that undocumented immigrants contribute $6-7 billion in SS funds that they will never be able to claim. In the Asheville area they spent $214.5 million in 2004, thus creating 2300 jobs.

    MYTH: Immigrants come here to take welfare
    REALITY: Immigrants come here to work and reunite with family members. Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most other public benefits. One study found that immigrants earn about $240 billion a year, pay $90 billion in taxes, and use about $5 billion in community services.

    MYTH: Immigrants don’t want to learn English
    REALITY: The NC Community College System reported an enrollment of over 37,000 adult students in English as a Second Language courses in 2003, not including church and community classes. Research shows that within 10 years, 75% of adult immigrants will speak English well. Nationwide, demand for English classes exceeds the supply, while key adult education funding continues to be cut.

    Information taken from: Justice for Immigrants—Learn the Issues, The Washington Post/Pew Study on Immigration, Duke University Markets & Management Studies Program & Center for Participatory Change

    We will not tolerate such inhuman treatment of our neighborhood sisters and brothers.
    Come in solidarity to protest this injustice!

    We are meeting for a rally at Vance Monument this Saturday, August 16 from 5-7 PM.

  43. Reality Check

    Its no surprise that pro-illegal immigrant groups conduct studies that result in pro-illegal immigrant findings.

  44. bobaloo

    Hi JBo, thanks for passing that along. Is there a link or source where I can check it out? I always appreciate your comments regardless of whether or not I agree with them.

    TexVet: So I rebutted your proposal that trailer park residents get off their lazy butts and get to work and that’s anti-minority.
    Then I say illegal alien population is estimated to be about 20 million and that’s anti-minority.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigrant_population_of_the_United_States
    Yes, it’s Wiki, but look at the source for the table. Pew Research is one of them. Guess they’re racists too.
    Tell me, do you consider anyone not on your side to not be a bigot?
    Never mind, I know the answer.
    By the way, if you register, your posts go through more quickly.

    The first is that you suggested that welfare recipients were mostly minorities, which I assume you are suggesting this population that we are speaking of.
    No, your assumption is wrong. There are more minorities than Hispanics, y’know.

  45. Bobaloo –

    I am not sure who is organizing this rally. A professor forwarded it to me this morning and I figured it’d be good to get the word out.

    I don’t really take any stance on this issue –

    But I certainly do not feel anger or hate towards other human-beings for attempting to make a better life for themselves and their families. After all – that is what we are all supposed to be doing, correct?

    If I take any issue on this it is with the Federal Government for not addressing the need to amicably solve the immigration needs between the US and Mexican governments during the 1990′s when the trend was obviously starting to to develop. I certainly don’t believe forcibly storming into factories and wrenching apart families is the correct manner in which to deal with the current immigration issue.

    I know for a fact these raids often reeks damage on the manufacturing plants and regional economies as much as it hurts the people being deported. A few years back when the meat packing plants were being raided, they had to shut down the plants for weeks due to loosing a majority of their labor – costing their company’s and regional economy’s millions of dollars. Or even out in the Southwest this summer, literally tons of tomatoes rotted on the vine because all of the pickers were being deported. That to me just doesn’t make good sense on any level.

    There is always a way to peaceably solve the issue of the day, but no one seems to be attempting any such approach in federal immigration policy.
    But that’s how it is in an election year – no substantial policy ever gets handled.

  46. travelah

    I do not think that van loads of illegal immigrants showing up in Woodfin or Fletcher, NC and begin working discreetly in a manufacturing operation are members of OUR community. As for no US workers being displaced, tell that to the many applicants looking to fill the now vacant positions following the bust.
    Comply with the laws in place. It’s not a difficult process. What in the world is “inhumane” about enforcing immigration laws in this country?

  47. Reality Check

    It very hard to find a job in Asheville now because its so popular to move here. The ‘nobody’s displaced’ argument is complete junk.

  48. Mysterylogger

    The broke the law. Thats it, the law is there for a reason.

    I understand the plight but they should of came into the country legally.

  49. bobaloo

    But I certainly do not feel anger or hate towards other human-beings for attempting to make a better life for themselves and their families. After all – that is what we are all supposed to be doing, correct?

    Neither do I in any way. Frustration, definitely but not anger.

    I agree, striving for a better life is human nature, but breaking the law is no way to start.

  50. Texas Veteran

    bobaloo said “I agree, striving for a better life is human nature, but breaking the law is no way to start.”

    Yes, they are “breaking the law” to do what? To get high? To commit a crime? To steal from someone? No, they are getting false documents in order to WORK! When did wanting to work become a crime in our wonderful country? This is outrageous!

    What’s next bobaloo, you want those 40,000 immigrant soldiers to leave the Middle East?

    I quote from the Washington Post: “Latino immigrants were among the earliest casualties of the Iraq war when it was launched in 2003. Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, who immigrated illegally from Guatemala at age 14, was the first service member killed in Iraq. Cpl. Jose A. Garibay and Pfc. Francisco A. Martinez Flores were born in Mexico. They and others were posthumously granted U.S. citizenship.”

    Yes, some of the first casualties were “ILLEGAL.” We are outrageously hypocritical! Shame on us, shame on us!

    Signed, Texas Vet!

  51. Cassius

    Bugg “Isn’t it great when we arrest people for working?”

    What part of illegal doesnt this guy understand? I read here that he thinks anybody against illegal entry into this country is a racist. He has also said people who live out in the county are “rural racists”. But he has also posted he moved to Sylva to get away from the things he doesn’t like about Asheville. Bugg, maybe it is all the brown and black skinned people in Asheville you dont like? A racist smells his own hole first.

    Thanks ICE for moving on these illegal aliens.They take jobs from citizens because they will work for less money and long hours 7 days a week. They ought to start fining these employers heavily. That’ll put a stop to this.

  52. Reality Check

    Bugg is either chronically unhappy or just likes to rock the boat. Maybe both.

    Texas Veteran just likes to keep changing the subject.

  53. travelah

    In the newspaper today I read of 75 people fleeing a nearby manufacturer when they heard about the nearby raid. Is that sweet or what? With 280 people being put out of work in Marion, perhaps thats another 75 jobs available for people who are actually here legally. Of course, they would not hire 75 workers because now they have to pay US workers here in Asheville a bit more than the van loads of Mexican workers trucked in.

    What in hell is wrong with the leftist liberal mindset. Do they not realize that their liberal academic mentors at UNCA sit comfy with tenure while they have to work two jobs in order to wave that weird flag high? … liberal sheeple at best.

  54. Texas Veteran

    Yes, they are “breaking the law” to do what? To get high? To commit a crime? To steal from someone? No, they are getting false documents in order to WORK! When did wanting to work become a crime in our wonderful country? This is outrageous!

    What’s next bobaloo, you want those 40,000 immigrant soldiers to leave the Middle East?

    I quote from the Washington Post: “Latino immigrants were among the earliest casualties of the Iraq war when it was launched in 2003. Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, who immigrated illegally from Guatemala at age 14, was the first service member killed in Iraq. Cpl. Jose A. Garibay and Pfc. Francisco A. Martinez Flores were born in Mexico. They and others were posthumously granted U.S. citizenship.”

    Yes, some of the first casualties were “ILLEGAL.” We are outrageously hypocritical! Shame on us, shame on us!

    Signed, Texas Vet!

  55. Texas Veteran

    Posted on Sat, Aug. 16, 2008
    Raids ensnare illegal — and legal — residents
    By DARRYL FEARS
    The Washington Post

    WASHINGTON | Marie Justeen Mancha was at home alone when she heard strange voices inside the house. As she crept down a hallway to make sure she wasn’t hearing things, the voices erupted into shouts.

    “Police! Illegals!”

    Testifying in a House subcommittee hearing, Mancha recalled the words she said the immigration agents shouted during the September 2006 raid on her home. She was 15 at the time, a Mexican-American, born in Texas but living in Reidsville, Ga.

    “I walked around the corner from the hallway and saw a tall man reach toward his gun and look straight at me,” Mancha, now 17, said in a thick Southern accent. “My heart just dropped.”

    As Immigration and Customs Enforcement compiles a record number of arrests through household and work-site raids seeking illegal immigrants, a growing number of U.S. citizens such as Mancha say they have gotten caught in the net.

    The agency, known as ICE, a division of the Department of Homeland Security, recently reported that its arrests in the current fiscal year have surpassed last year’s record total of about 4,900. The number of arrests has soared since 2005, when a Government Accountability Office report concluded that work-site enforcement was not a priority for ICE.

    An ICE spokesman did not respond directly to a question about complaints that U.S. citizens and legal residents are getting swept up in the raids.

    “We target egregious employers, those who have built their business model on hiring an illegal work force,” spokesman Brandon Alvarez-Montgomery said in a statement. “This practice undercuts legal, law-abiding companies and can create an environment where employee welfare and labor standards are not enforced.”

    But there have been significant missteps. More than 100 citizens and legal residents were snared along with nearly 140 illegal immigrants in a raid on a software company in Van Nuys, Calif., early this year. Five citizens in Texas joined a lawsuit against the department, asserting that they were subjected to unreasonable search and seizure when agents raided a meatpacking plant where they worked last year. An African-American worker said in a hearing that he was handcuffed and detained for hours without food and water during a raid on an Iowa meatpacking plant in 2006.

    Immigration officials and anti-illegal-immigrant advocacy groups say the raids have proved effective, forcing Mexican nationals and others to think twice before sneaking across the border, and have instilled fear in illegal immigrants already here.

    Critics say the raids and arrests have also led members of Congress to launch investigations and to a mounting number of lawsuits.

    On its Web site, the American Immigration Law Foundation has summarized at least 10 lawsuits stemming from the raids, including the case of 7-year-old Kebin Reyes, a U.S. citizen who was held for hours when agents raided his home in the San Francisco Bay area and held his father, Noe, on suspicion of entering the country illegally. In June, the government agreed to a $30,000 settlement, according to the foundation.

    Critics also point out that detention facilities used to hold suspected illegal immigrants and legal immigrants convicted of crimes are overflowing. The number of immigrant inmates has surpassed 40,000, and officials are struggling to find money to detain them and pay for medical expenses. The American Civil Liberties Union and news reports by The Washington Post and others have tracked cases of detainee illnesses that have gone untreated and cases in which inmates may have died for lack of treatment.

    Rep. Zoe Lofgren, who chairs the subcommittee before which Mancha testified, said aggressive enforcement and arrests will not work without changes in the law to allow illegal immigrants to work legally and get on a path to citizenship.

    “At this record rate of arrests, it would still take 2,943 years to deport the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants,” said Lofgren, a California Democrat.

    During a recent raid at a kosher meatpacking plant in Pottsville, Iowa, she noted, ICE put those it had detained in a cattle barn.

    “That’s where the majesty of the judicial system and the deportation process was dispensed, there in the cattle barn,” Lofgren said.

    Lofgren also cited the case of Pedro Guzman, a U.S. citizen who was turned over to ICE and removed to Tijuana.

    In testimony about the case in February, attorney Rachel Rosenbloom of the Center for Human Rights and International Justice at Boston College said Guzman, 29, had a significant cognitive disability and could not read or write, but the police agencies accepted his signature on a document consenting to be transferred.

    “The … removal of Mr. Guzman is not an isolated incident,” Rosenbloom said.

    Mancha said she feared that she might be deported until she convinced the agents in her home that she was a citizen: “They asked me if my mom was a Mexican and if she had her papers or a green card. I answered all their questions, telling them my mama didn’t need a green card, that she was born in Florida.”

    At the same hearing in February, Mike Graves, a U.S. citizen who has worked at a Swift meatpacking plant in Marshalltown, Iowa, for 21 years, said he was swept up in a 2006 raid “that felt like an attack.”

    Meatpackers at Swift plants in Cactus, Texas, joined a class-action lawsuit filed last year by the United Food and Commercial Workers against the DHS and ICE that seeks to prevent agents from conducting mass raids. Several plaintiffs said they were subjected to unreasonable searches and seizures.

    http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation/story/752153-p2.html

  56. jen

    I do not know what the rally was for that was held downtown. They are so sad about the immigrants losing their ‘illegal’ jobs but obviously do not care about the u.s. workers who are losing their jobs to illegals everyday. The u.s. workers who cannot support their families anymore because their jobs are being sent to other countries or given to workers that are willing to take lower pay. Honestly I think they should raid more often. In foreign countries they kick your behind right out if you are found to be illegal..why not here? To bad they had families and children here. They obviously did not give this consideration before they chose to use illegal documents. They knew what may happen if they were caught but did it anyway.

  57. Austin

    Hey Flag Wavers,
    My brother is a very conservative republican who runs a frac crew in the west Texas oil fields. He told me that they have to hire illegal immigrants because very few natives there can actually pass the drug test. The Texas oil fields would literally shut down if not for illegal immigrants.
    What part of ‘we rely on’ needs further clarification?

  58. Reality Check

    Easy Austin …. when there were no illegals, there were plenty of legal employees … the illegals displaced the citizens and the citizens moved somewhere that the illegals and the enabling employers weren’t ruling the market.

    Texas Vet … nice that some of the illegals defrauded the gov’t into believing they were citizens. Not that they didn’t fight well and were good squad mates, but they lied to get in. Your point is convoluted. Another unsuccessful attempt to change the subject.

    Using the term “flag wavers” to stereotype those that think immigration law makes since is BS. I’ll ask another ’4th’ time .. name a country with a more liberal immigration situation … you can’t so you change the subject. You think some Utopia ought to exist somewhere. We live in the real world whether you like it or not. Saying the US is messed up shows me you know nothing of the rest of the world.

  59. PatD

    Hypocrite Americans? Seriously? nah ….can’t believe that. No way. Oh wait… hmm …yes, this is the country where just about every cop or government official smokes or has smoked a joint at some time in their life but yes, they still arrest people for such a heinous crime. Yes, this is the country that sends immigrants, legal or illegal, into a war based on nothing but greed and lies. My own kid served two tours in Iraq and is not a citizen, neither am I. We can pay taxes and we can die for this country but we can’t vote. Do I feel closer tied to illegal immigrants who work hard and feed their families then I do to lazy-ass American redneck bigots who do nothing but complain about how those bastards steal their jobs but don’t want to get away from their flat screen TV? You bet your ass I do. So now what? The usual rethoric like … if you don’t like it here, go back etc etc? I am bored already.

  60. bobaloo

    TexVet:
    What’s next bobaloo, you want those 40,000 immigrant soldiers to leave the Middle East?

    Yes, some of the first casualties were “ILLEGAL.”

    I really don’t know why I bother.
    There are appx. 37,500 legal residents, i.e. Green Card holders, serving in the Armed Forces. Not illegals.
    Nice try though.
    And yes, I would say they certainly earned citizenship.

    PatD.,
    Thanks to your son for serving in our all volunteer Military. We all appreciate his service and hope his citizenship is forthcoming.
    Although you really don’t sound like you’re willing to take the oath.
    Signed,
    Lazy ass American redneck bigot.

  61. PatD

    Would I take the oath? After how I have seen this country slide backward, in terms of rights and freedom, in the last 8 years?
    An oath to belong to the greatest of all hypocrite nations, run by greed and bible thumpers (even our seemingly great and only hope, Mr. Obama, believes in fairy tales).
    Nah, don’t think so. Besides, I served my own country, many years ago, and that’s good enough for me.

    57 hard working people were picked up for the crime of wanting to better the lives of their families.
    All this so the morons of this country can have the feeling their government is helping them while, truthfully, the powers that really run this country are having a blast with your money and ignorance.
    The immigration issue is not simply black/white but get enough idiots to believe it is and all is good.

    I do apologize, not everyone is a lazy bigot.
    I am lucky to live in the bubble called Asheville so there is some relief. Great and smart people all over.
    But large parts of this nation, many of you good citizens, have become a scary bunch looking for scapegoats.
    Let’s beat up the new Jews, they are the cause of all our problems. Never mind your government, run by the 1% elite, is sucking you dry in the mean time.
    History will always repeat itself I guess.
    So there ….

  62. bobaloo

    PatD,
    In that case why indeed are you here? If it’s so loathsome, why endure on?
    Don’t misunderstand me, you’re more than welcome, as is anyone that follows legal means, but seeing as you’re not a full citizen and you have no desire to become a citizen of such an immoral and backwards country, why do you suffer under such perceived oppression?
    And, out of curiosity, what country do you hold citizenship in?
    Honest question.

  63. PatD

    Fair questions bobaloo. I ask myself this every day. What on earth am I still doing here?
    But many years and a lot of money has been invested, my children and soon grandchildren are a solid reason to stay, a company and employees counting on me too.
    Maybe I still have hope.
    Maybe I am just a fool.
    Your question, however, solidifies my point. Immigration, legal or not, is not just a black&white;matter (except maybe for the poor sucker getting caught at crossing).
    Not much in this world is just that simple.
    Of all my intelligent American friends, I don’t know one, at this moment, who does not feel some level of shame for belonging to this hypocrite circus called USA.
    I guess they have hope too.

    Where am I from? A country in Europe where freedom of speech is just that and all of that. But this is not the place to splatter too much of my private life. Although I don’t feel the need to hide behind some handle and so, the people who know me, will know who PatD is. Although it’s totally irrelevant to this blog.

    And let’s talk about all this ‘legal’ stuff.
    The law seems to be such a huge issue in this context of immigration.
    But forgive me for chuckling at this.
    Of all you good law abiding citizens, can you please tell me which one of you has never broken the law? Not EVER !!
    I mean, never smoked a joint, never ever got behind the wheel with some drink in you, never reported a little less on taxes, never ever speeding in car or motorcycle. Can’t think of anything else but give me some time I am sure you get the point.

  64. travelah

    PatD, it sounds like your another idealist ultra liberal European who perhaps should go home where life was good before coming to the despicable USA? Oh, economic reasons keeping you here? Successful in this despicable place? Imagine that. How did that come to be if that 1% was sucking you dry of all your resources? Cannot you do better and get to keep maybe 5 or 10% of your earnings in whatever country you came from? Don’t you think you should rescue your children and grandchildren from this despicable place and take them back to the land of free speech and opportunity??

  65. Texas Veteran

    These raids are RACIST PERIOD! And they racially profile too. Everyone has broken the law and all have cheated. Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.

    There are numerous lawsuits now pending against ICE for snaring legal citizens. In a piece by the Washington Post, a very reputable newsource, the following article appeared and noted:

    “More than 100 citizens and legal residents were snared along with nearly 140 illegal immigrants in a raid on a software company in Van Nuys, Calif., early this year. Five citizens in Texas joined a lawsuit against the department, asserting that they were subjected to unreasonable search and seizure when agents raided a meatpacking plant where they worked last year. An African American worker said in a hearing that he was handcuffed and detained for hours without food and water during a raid on an Iowa meatpacking plant in 2006.

    On its Web site, the American Immigration Law Foundation has summarized at least 10 lawsuits stemming from the raids, including the case of 7-year-old Kebin Reyes, a U.S. citizen who was held for hours when agents raided his home in the San Francisco Bay area and held his father, Noe, on suspicion of entering the country illegally. In June, the government agreed to a $30,000 settlement, according to the foundation.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/15/AR2008081503208.html

  66. travelah

    PatD, I do not need to come up with anything else. I think you should be deported.

  67. PatD

    of course, how dare I speak my mind and call all you hypocrites out.
    Funny how the lesser intelligent only come up with the old boring ‘go back, deported, etc’ while ignoring the points I make.
    Having a problem being honest with yourself travelah?
    Don’t worry, you are not alone.

  68. travelah

    PatD, please, you think too highly of your importance. You are just one of a minority and the world does not revolve around you.

  69. bobaloo

    A country in Europe where freedom of speech is just that and all of that. But this is not the place to splatter too much of my private life.

    I really don’t think naming the incredibly free and just country you come from would be too much exposure of your private life. I’d really like to know what utopia you hail from.

    Of all you good law abiding citizens, can you please tell me which one of you has never broken the law? Not EVER!

    Sure, I’ve broken the law, but that doesn’t mean the laws shouldn’t be enforced, which is what you and TexVet seem to be implying.

  70. PatD

    bobaloo. The censoring and free speech manipulation issue, the USA is notorious for, is not relevant to this blog topic. Maybe some other time other place.
    I can only say this, most of my friends here don’t even seem to notice or are totally used to it. Ask anyone who has lived in any of the free western European countries. They know what I talk about.

    I am not implying laws should not be enforced. Sorry if it came across that way.
    My points were A: it’s not as simple as ‘kick’m all out’ and ‘before you shout, look within and make sure you have not benefited from illegal workers and are not guilty of breaking laws yourself’.
    It’s only hypocrisies that get under my skin and I only hope I am being called to it too if I make that same mistake.

    travelah : … yawn… in need to take a nap now …soo bored.

  71. bobaloo

    Fine and dandy, PatD, and point taken about staying on topic.
    I would invite you over to the forums, though, and happily discuss the state of various European countries, their immigration policies and their free speech rights as well.
    My main issue was that you complained you pay taxes and your son enlists in the military, yet you can’t vote since you’re not a citizen but refuse to become a citizen.
    It does seem a bit like you’re dodging when you won’t even name the specific country, but I digress.
    Thanks for the dialogue.

  72. PatD

    bobaloo I did not complain about, as a legal immigrant, having to pay taxes. That would be pretty stupid. Everybody pays taxes. The point I was trying to bring forward was how it is possible that someone can be a legal resident here, enlist in the military, die for this country but can’t vote. Something is wrong with that picture. Don’t you think so? Either give a legal resident all the same rights or, if you (understandably in my opinion) want to curb green card holders then don’t enlist them in your military.
    It’s just one of the many warped and hypocrite systems here.
    Now, do I have good things to say about the country I have called home for half a lifetime? Sure I do, but not so much in this immigration context and, of course, some people on this blog will be dens enough to judge me over a few lines I wrote on a very specific subject. C’est la vie :-)

  73. Texas Veteran

    Son of “undocumented Mexicans” wins GOLD in Beijing!!!!

    ————-

    American whiz kid Cejudo wins Olympic gold
    13 hours ago
    AP News

    BEIJING (AP) — Henry Cejudo, the 21-year-old wrestling prodigy who had wrestled in only one world-level senior tournament before Beijing, has won the Olympic gold medal in men’s freestyle 55-kilogram wrestling.

    Cejudo, crying the moment the match ended and wrapping himself in an American flag, defeated Tomohiro Matsunaga of Japan 2-2 on tiebreaker and 3-0 in the best-of-three match. Cejudo was 31st in last year’s world championships, his only prior tournament at this level.

    Cejudo, the son of undocumented Mexican aliens who bypassed a college career to try to become an Olympian, assures the United States of winning a freestyle wrestling gold for the ninth consecutive Olympics at which it has competed.

    The bronze medalists were last year’s world champion, Besik Kudukhov of Russia, and Radoslav Velikov of Bulgaria. Kudukhov was pinned by Matsunaga in the semifinals.

    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gccNXZMsqbKDhQkfpNrpXKy6RWCAD92L9EFO1

  74. Austin

    This country and Republicans and Democrats alike need to realize the small amount of common ground we stand on (with regards to this issue) and pass legislation allowing people to work here and build a life. The ‘sneak in’ way mixed with the border patrol army only invites tension. Now local govt’s are being forced to deal with issues that I wish they didn’t have to deal with.
    Why can’t repubs admit we rely on immigrant labor, and why can’t dems admit that the current system is part of the problem, and that our borders probably should not be human smuggling corridors?
    Why can’t anyone compromise? It’s what husbands and wifes and business partners and best friends and co-workers do all the time. It’s easy if people just get off their high-horses and put themselves in some one else’s shoes. It’s a spiritual practice for people who want to know goodness.

  75. bobaloo

    bobaloo I did not complain about, as a legal immigrant, having to pay taxes.
    No, I meant you complained about not being able to vote yet you have no interest in becoming a citizen.

    Either give a legal resident all the same rights or, if you (understandably in my opinion) want to curb green card holders then don’t enlist them in your military.
    Instead it would make sense that with completion of military service any resident alien should be automatically given citizenship status. That I completely agree with.
    But then, it is a volunteer army. No one if forcing them to enlist.

  76. Here’s a fun story:

    Henry Cejudo’s uniquely American story started with a single mother who taught him what it meant to truly fight. His mother Nelly – an undocumented immigrant — moved him and his siblings several times chasing work and opportunity, scraping by, ensuring her kids got an education. And along the way, the family found a channel for both the tough resilience she modeled and the country they loved through the sport of freestyle wrestling.

    With the brothers he shared a bed with growing up cheering from the stands (as well as his sister), Cejudo repeatedly got off the mat to come back and win in a tough match against Tomohiro Matsunaga of Japan. And now America has both an unexpected gold medal and a new hero.

    Today in Beijing, our nation proudly called Cejudo one of our own:

    “What Henry has accomplished is an American success story,” USOC spokesman Darryl Seibel said.“This is a story of perseverance and determination. We couldn’t be more proud of Henry, not only for what he has accomplished on the mat, but for how he has represented our country.”

    It has become commonplace on the right to talk about how recent immigrants, and particularly undocumented immigrants and their children, do not want to assimilate, learn English or identify themselves as truly American.

    Yet this family – all of them proud to be the cheering voice of the United States in a city on the other side of the planet – did our country proud:

    They all wore or waved American flags, an entire family decked in the stars and stripes. A family that started with illegal immigrants and advanced to right here, this moment, their very own gold medalist resting in their lap.

    “Only in America,” Cejudo said.

    http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/19/immigrant-gold/

  77. Texas Veteran

    The level of hypocrisy is stunning in North Carolina. I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be cruel, but does anyone read news OUTSIDE of the south? Seriously people, your corner of the world is not representative of our country. There is a whole world out there beyond Ashville!

    There are 40,000 immigrant soldiers fighting in the US Armed Forces as we speak; recruiters being caught in Mexico trying to get so-called “illegals” to join; and undocumented that worry about their familes.

    According to this article published by the Boston Globe, “Yaderlin Jimenez was an illegal immigrant facing deportation. Her husband, a U.S. citizen and soldier, couldn’t help; he was missing after an insurgent attack in Iraq.

    The May disappearance of U.S. Army Specialist Alex Jimenez, of Lawrence, Mass., earned the case national attention. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff last month asked immigration officials to stop his wife’s removal proceedings, and she became a legal resident.

    But the Jimenezes’ plight put a public face on the private anguish of a growing number of military families in similar straits who won’t benefit from the same kind of attention.

    “Every base has immigration problems,” said Margaret Stock, an Army reservist and immigration attorney teaching at United States Military Academy at West Point. “The government they’re fighting for is the same government that’s trying to deport their families.”

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2007/08/10/soldiers_fight_for_us_worry_as_family_members_face_deportation/

    HYPOCRISY! HYPOCRISY I SAY!

  78. PatD

    bobaloo
    Maybe I exaggerated a little on the citizenship. It just has not been high on my list during these 8 years of being represented by the worst president in US history (he has to be). But I guess hope is around the corner. And, of course, I realize I have nothing to complain about if I don’t take the steps to put in my vote.

    That said, I can’t see how this country can pull around, without deep changes, which will not happen.

    Refering to Austin and TexVet postings, this country is so all about the almighty dollar that nothing can change as long as so much money is made of these issues (immigration, drugs, religion, gun control, war… just to name a few). The $ drive is what made the US such a powerhouse but, at the same time, a very common, ugly place without much class and culture. (unless one thinks plunking down insane amounts of money, for whatever artwork, gives one class. But that’s off topic).

    I am thinking about how many people benefit direct and indirect from immigration, both legal and illegal.
    - Huge budgets are being distributed to law enforcement. They like their jobs of course.
    - A large amount of people are working in administration. Same.
    - many millions of immigrants are a huge consumer base.
    - tax income on a many levels.
    - and then of course many industries saving many millions or billions through lower wages.
    I probably have not listed all but you get the point.

    When money, greed and special interests come into play, hypocrisy runs at it’s highest and the US is king at these games. (I am certainly not implying this only happens in the US)

    What’s with this ??
    That’s a pretty stupid comment, missing the point completely.

  79. PatD

    Henry Cejudo’s wining gold for the US is so funny.
    But, I wonder, is he going to be able to get passed the INS on his return or …shall we deport that law breaking criminal scum?

  80. bobaloo

    What’s with this ??
    That’s a pretty stupid comment, missing the point completely.

    That stupid comment is a correction from the post above it, expounding on our topic of resident aliens in the military. Comprende?

  81. Austin

    boobaloo,
    ‘Comprende’?
    Don’t write in Spanish if you are unable to conjugate correctly. You will appear foolish.
    I’m only a second year Spanish student, but shouldn’t that be ‘comprendes’?
    I am impressed with your multiculturism though. Keep up the studies!

  82. r Bernier

    ICE arrests 57 illegal aliens in Woodfin – Carl Mumpower remarks on “Sound Off Buncombe”.

    Program will “air” on URTV later this month.

    Click here to watch: http://vimeo.com/1545515

    RB

  83. Austin

    bobaloo,
    As an aside, and having read more of your posts, I don’t think you deserve my intended sarcasm. I appreciate what you have offered.

  84. bobaloo

    I don’t think you deserve my intended sarcasm.

    Heh, I’m sure I do. Don’t doubt yourself!
    Seriously, I’m actually fairly moderate on the immigration issue -I wholeheartedly believe in a worker’s visa but oppose blanket amnesty- but I get real testy with extreme opinions, especially when folks start throwing around the bigot and redneck tags. It’s the quickest way to completely devalue an argument.

  85. PatD

    You know bobaloo, I pretty much dislike all extremes too. Left or right, I don’t care, extreme sucks. But when I read some of the opinions on these blogs, I can’t help myself. Gotta do some poking and call these people out for what they (unfortunately) are.

  86. Texas Veteran

    I came across this article today, which was published a few months back and entitled “Soldiers fight for U.S., worry as family members face deportation.”

    According to this source, “Yaderlin Jimenez was an illegal immigrant facing deportation. Her husband, a U.S. citizen and soldier, couldn’t help; he was missing after an insurgent attack in Iraq.”

    To make matters worse, the piece continues, “Every base has immigration problems,” said Margaret Stock, an Army reservist and immigration attorney teaching at United States Military Academy at West Point. “The government they’re fighting for is the same government that’s trying to deport their families.”

    This piece notes the service of 35,000 “green card holders,” but a recent piece in the LA Times entitled “Dozens of immigrants among war casualties” states that today “Nationwide, about 69,000 active-duty military personnel were born outside the U.S.” Huh, talk about hypocrisy!

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/immigration/la-me-immigrants25-2008may25,0,4727988.story

    One soldier at the end of the first story I pointed out stated it best when he pointed out that “I’m not a politician, just a soldier in the U.S. Army,” he said. “I’d like to see the government take an interest in situations like mine. As soldiers … we guard this country with our very lives. We should be treated like the heroes and heroines Americans claim us to be.”

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/massach…ce_deportation/

  87. bobaloo

    PatD:
    I have to disagree. For the most part, the opponents of amnesty on these boards are pretty moderate. The 9th post down by TexVet started off with the uneducated, ignorant bigot charges, but it’s not necessary to rehash the thread.

    Really, if you want to see some real nuts, go visit the Topix threads on immigration. There you’ll see the lowest of both sides.

  88. sonja

    the most funny thing is, that this whole country is founded on illegal immigrants who take this land over, killed many many people to make this country to their country…
    than forced to bring in here other illegals as slaves also…

    if i’m not wrong, in this country where mexicans living even before the europeans came over the ocean… so, who have the bigger right to be somewhere?

    and i know that many of them would like to go by law, file for the papers and such… who ever went over the whole legal process to immigrate to the US knows, that you need to be pretty wealthy to make that happen…

    all the paperworks is up to $ 2500 for EACH person… so, wher should they get 10.000 dollar from to make this work out if that is mom, dad and 2 kids???????

    they need to make it realistic and payable for people to do right and not just for rich people….

    and at the end…. this country NEEDS their mexicans!
    everybody who does not see this is a dreamer!

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