Cranky Hanke’s Weekly Reeler Sept. 30-Oct. 6: Michael Moore comes to town, controversy follows

In theaters

Considering the fact that the first time I saw the trailer for Michael Moore’s Capitalism: A Love Story some admirer yelled, “You suck!” from the back of the theater, and since the Fine Arts Theatre lost one poster for the film to some wit who scrawled an expletive across it, I’d say that we’re in for the usual controversy that lies in the wake of every Moore film. And bear in mind, these responses came from folks who haven’t even seen the movie they already hate. Of course, probably 90 percent of the film’s most violent detractors never will see the film, making the spectacle of their ire just that much more entertaining. I have seen Capitalism—which opens Friday at the Fine Arts and the Carolina Asheville (the only confirmed local venues at this point)—and you can read my take on it in this Wednesday’s Xpress.

Capitalism is only one of several movies that make this week more interesting than last week—not that it’s all that difficult to be more interesting than last week’s crop. In addition to Mr. Moore’s blood-pressure-raiser, we have Drew Barrymore’s directorial debut, Whip It; Rick Gervais’ directorial debut, The Invention of Lying; a splattery zombie comedy (is the zom-com the next new genre?), Zombieland; the 3-D-ified double feature of Toy Story and Toy Story 2; and the indie film Humpday. (The review for this last also appears in tomorrow’s Xpress.) It’s a rare week where there are three mainstream releases I’m actually anxious to see, but this one qualifies.

While I can’t claim any great enthusiasm for the topic of roller derby, I am intrigued by the promise of the trailer for Whip It. It’s pretty obvious that the movie’s really a female-empowerment opus, and that’s fine. I have no quarrel with that. The real interest for me, however, lies in the trailer’s suggestion that Ellen Page has a range that extends beyond Juno—something that her last film, the dismal Smart People (2008), did not suggest. Plus, it’ll be interesting to see what Drew Barrymore does behind the camera. It’s been a long road from the first time I saw Barrymore (with maybe one line of dialogue) in Ken Russell’s Altered States back in 1980 (she’d have been 4 years old) to this.

Ricky Gervais’ last attempt at stardom, Ghost Town (2008), was an undeserved box-office flop (probably because that title sucks), but The Invention of Lying may well change that. This time Gervais also co-wrote and co-directed the film. The concept is intriguing—a movie that takes place in an alternate reality where everyone speaks the truth, until one day when Gervais hits on the concept of lying and discovers that something other than total honesty may not be such a bad thing. When you think about it—and apparently the film does—that’s probably more true than not.

I have to admit I’m pretty much zombied out. I’m tired of zombie movies and zombie walks and zombiethons and people playing fantasy games about surviving zombie attacks. That doesn’t keep Zombieland from having a certain appeal—not in the least because it looks a little like Alex Cox’s Repo Man (1984) with Woody Harrelson standing in for Harry Dean Stanton and Jesse Eisenberg taking the Emilio Estevez position. That may be wishful thinking based solely on the trailer, but it’s enough to officially make me want to see the thing.

This is also the week where several good movies disappear from local screens. Come Friday, you can say goodbye to Cold Souls, District 9 and Not Quite Hollywood. Catch ‘em while you can. On the other hand, it’s worth noting that Asheville Pizza and Brewing is brining back Up, albeit only for matinees.

On DVD

For me, the biggest news in DVD releases this week is the rental-only appearance of Rian Johnson’s The Brothers Bloom. This is very much in the running for my favorite film of 2009 and I’m very much interested in seeing it again. Actually, I’m very much interested in owning my own copy of it, but that’s another matter.

Otherwise, I’m glad to get the chance to catch up with Sam Mendes’ Away We Go, which comes out in the normal fashion this week. I missed it when it was in the theater, but people whose tastes usually line up with mine (including co-critic Justin Souther) thought highly of it, so I definitely plan on catching up with it. I wish I could say I’d missed Management—also appearing today—on the big screen, but it was the opening-night movie at the Florida Film Festival this year, and I was there. I’ll admit I napped through part of it—as did Ken Russell’s wife, Lisi. The fact that Russell stayed awake through the whole film, and the experience can hardly be said to have brightened his mood, makes me disinclined to see the part I missed. The fact that it’s on DVD pleases me, however, since it diminishes the chances that I’ll ever have to review it.

Notable TV screenings

October is here, which means horror movies are going to start easing into the programming on Turner Classic Movies. I’m OK with that, but this first week isn’t that exciting, though a couple titles stand out, albeit not at the most convenient time of day. Still, it’s more exciting than Fox Movie Channel, which I’m getting tired of even checking. (Yes, Dunston Checks In is back there this week. Find it for yourself.)

White Zombie 6 a.m., Saturday, Oct. 3, TCM
Speaking of zombies, here’s Bela Lugosi in the first zombie picture ever made, White Zombie (1932). Everything that follows zombiewise stems from this little movie—a film for which, we’re told, Lugosi was paid a whopping 500 bucks. (The man had no head for business and an agent who should have been shot.) These zombies are a little different. They move much the same as the ones we’ve come to know (at least pre-Danny Boyle), but they don’t eat people, and, in fact, aren’t really dead, but are the result of some esoteric drug and mind control. Moreover, they exist mostly for the rather mundane purpose of providing labor for Lugosi’s Haitian sugar mill (“They are not worried about long hours”). Fortunately for Lugosi, the Haitian health department was apparently pretty lax, since the occasional zombie falls into the mill and gets mixed in with the sugar cane. The plot centers around a wealthy landowner who has the hots for Madge Bellamy and takes Lugosi’s advice to have her zombified in order to take her away from her fiancé. That doesn’t sound terribly exciting, but it works surprisingly well, thanks to the film’s incredibly moody atmosphere and Lugosi’s throughly evil performance (the most unsympathetic of his career). Made on the cheap by the the Halperin Brothers, it’s a gorgeous-looking film that operates more on a creepiness factor than shock horror.

Mad Love 7:45 a.m., Sunday, Oct. 4, TCM
Peter Lorre’s first American film, Mad Love (1935), was also the final directorial effort of the great German cinematographer Karl Freund. It’s also in the running for the most purely sadistic horror film of the 1930s—something that lends credence to Zita Johann’s assessment of the director as a sadist from her experiences with him on his first directing job with The Mummy (1932). The oddest thing about this is that the film comes from the MGM factory—the most middle-brow, reactionary, white-bread studio of the era. Odder still is the fact that MGM’s other forays into horror are also heavy on the sadism. The film is a variation on The Hands of Orlac—the tale of a concert pianist (Colin Clive) whose hands are crushed in an accident and are replaced with the grafted-on hands of a murderer. As we all know, this will turn the recipient of such hands into a murderer himself. The focus of this version of the story, however, is on the surgeon who performs the operation, Dr. Gogol (Lorre), and much of what happens is psychological in nature, grounded in a plot by Gogol to make nice-nice with Orlac’s wife (Frances Drake). Gogol has already become fixated on her by getting his jollies from watching her being “tortured” onstage at the Theatre of Horrors prior to the accident. That the idea that someone could be sexually aroused by watching scenes of torture ever got past the censors is either remarkable, or simply a testament to how naive the censors were. In either case, this is a rather nasty little movie. I mean that in the nicest possible way.

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About Ken Hanke
Head film critic for Mountain Xpress from December 2000 until his death in June 2016. Author of books "Ken Russell's Films," "Charlie Chan at the Movies," "A Critical Guide to Horror Film Series," "Tim Burton: An Unauthorized Biography of the Filmmaker."

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135 thoughts on “Cranky Hanke’s Weekly Reeler Sept. 30-Oct. 6: Michael Moore comes to town, controversy follows

  1. Asheville Dweller

    Id take Mikey Moore more seriously if he wasnt such a Hypocrite since he is a definition of sucessful Capitalism.

    Haven’t seen it, Probably will, I need a good laugh with his horrible narration with his whiney voice talking bad about those that make money, trying to stir the controversial pot.

    He complains about the US so much why don’t he move away, if its so bad. I will say he does create a great work of fiction.

  2. Sean Williams

    Ellen Page has a range that extends beyond Juno

    Didn’t she also play Kitty Pryde?

    For me, the biggest news in DVD releases this week is the rental-only appearance of Rian Johnson’s The Brothers Bloom.

    Is it too early to call Rian Johnson the next great American director? Because that’s how I’m feeling right now.

  3. Sean Williams

    As to Michael Moore, I’d classify him as a cinematic essayist rather than as a documentarian. Sure, there are plenty of distortions in his work, many of them probably willful. But that fact doesn’t detract from his skill as a filmmaker or from the value of his commentary.

  4. JWTJr

    Regarding Michael Moore, I agree with him largely on this movie that things have gotten out of hand. However, I find it ironic and somewhat hipocritical that a gazillionaire is blowing the whistle.

    Maybe we should start regulating the movie industry like finances and health care? There are certainly abuses that need to be addressed .. primarily too much money for too few people.

  5. Ken Hanke

    Id take Mikey Moore more seriously if he wasnt such a Hypocrite since he is a definition of sucessful Capitalism.

    Yes, well, that has little to do with capitalism in the sense he’s addressing it, but I can see your mind is sufficiently open to note that when you see the film.

  6. JWTJr

    Sean – is willful distortion a sign of a skillful filmmaker? How is his commentary valuable if it contains significant willful distortions?

  7. Ken Hanke

    Didn’t she also play Kitty Pryde?

    No need to be unnecessarily cruel, is there?

    Is it too early to call Rian Johnson the next great American director? Because that’s how I’m feeling right now

    Early perhaps. But that doesn’t keep the sentiment from being understandable.

    As to Michael Moore, I’d classify him as a cinematic essayist rather than as a documentarian. Sure, there are plenty of distortions in his work, many of them probably willful

    That’s essentially a charge that can be brought against just about any documentarian that ever was. It’s particularly true of anyone working in the realm of activist documentaries (someone working on a documentary on snuff boxes is less likely to have an agenda). The reason that the right hates Moore and uses the “if you criticize America then you hate America” rhetoric (which logically would include those teaparty people, but doesn’t somehow) is that people actually go see his movies. It’s neither Moore’s fault, nor the left’s fault that the right has been unable to emulate that feat.

  8. Few more titles of note this week. The first true crossover role for a working porn star is out, Steven Soderbergh’s THE GIRLFRIEND EXPERIENCE. Unlike others who have been in cameos, Sasha Grey is the star, and does a great job. Kevin Spacey returns to lead role with SHRINK. Madonna’s directorial debut would scare me, but the always interesting Gogol Bordello are in FILTH AND WISDOM. MONSTERS VS. ALIENS was good, but could have been better.

    The fall TV blitz is winding down with CSI NY SEASON 5, THE UNIT SEASON 4, the US version of LIFE ON MARS and the interesting but failed KINGS.

    Reissues this week are WIZARD OF OZ and on blu-ray LABYRINTH, DARK CRYSTAL and HENRY!

    SLEEP DEALER came out earlier this month and I would have missed out if people online weren’t praising it. I’m glad I got it… this little Mexican film is the best low budget sci-fi in YEARS. Some of the special effects show the budget limitations. However, if you can get past that, you will be treated to science fiction like it used to be, full of ideas instead of a sequel, adaptation, remake or reboot. Highly highly recommended!

  9. Asheville Dweller

    Hows that, he’s making money off the free market, he puts his goods out there and people buy a ticket and go see his movie. If he wanted to make waves he should of put in the theater for free or donate the money, ALL of it less production costs to some worthy charity, but no. He will make oodles of money on this film and get even richer, the only difference is he is not an evil capatilistic Bank or Wal-mart . . .

    He is a Hypocrite

  10. Dread P. Roberts

    Regarding Michael Moore, I agree with him largely on this movie that things have gotten out of hand. However, I find it ironic and somewhat hipocritical that a gazillionaire is blowing the whistle.

    I don’t want to put words into anyones mouth, but it sounds to me like what you are saying is that it’s only Ok to make a statement about various political and financial issues, if one is poor. Isn’t it rather difficult to get your voice heard, and make an impact, without any sort of fame and financial stability whatsoever? So what happens when a poor protester starts to profit off of pointing out various issues? (As would be the case here). According to this logic, it would seem that once the said protester reaches a certain point of financial success, they must then simply shut up, and settle down into a lazy life of leisure; rather than continuing to do what they love, and have become recognized for. Surely I’m missing something here, right? If one agrees with the issue being addressed, then wouldn’t you want a well known, popular person, to be ‘blowing the whistle’ alongside you? Why would you fight with someone who you claim to agree with? Besides, does anyone really know how he actually spends the money he earns? I would imagine that you guys would have to know something that I don’t, in order to throw around such an insulting accusation as hypocrite, right? You guys don’t just throw words like this around without a good reason to back them up, do you? I’m sure he enjoys some level of luxury, but that doesn’t mean he’s greedily squandering all of his wealth on himself. I’m guessing quite a bit of his own money probably goes into funding his movies, because it is important to him. But I don’t know his personal life, so please enlighten me.

  11. Dread P. Roberts

    I was originally thinking that if I make it to a theater this weekend, Zombieland would be the best bet for my taste. But now I’m thinking maybe I shouldn’t wait until DVD to support Capitalism, like I always do with documentaries (or cinematic essay’s, as Sean so eloquently put it). Oh the humanity of such dilemma’s.

    Is it too early to call Rian Johnson the next great American director? Because that’s how I’m feeling right now.

    I completely understand and agree (I still need to get my hands on a copy of Evil Demon Golfball from Hell!!! (1996)). But yes, two or three movies is probably not quite enough; perhaps a Rian Johnson cult could be formed.

  12. Rian Johnson, John Cameron Mitchell and Ramin Bahrani are the three guys hitting em out of the ballpark. It’s too bad that they are in an era where funds for these films are drying up.

    I’m surprised that it is taking CAPITALISM for many people to call him a hypocrite. A man that large making SICKO should have tipped you off. Also he admitted in the 90s that his daughter went to private school… which in my opinion doesn’t further his populist agenda.

  13. Steven

    [b]Reissues this week are WIZARD OF OZ and on blu-ray LABYRINTH, DARK CRYSTAL and HENRY![/b]
    I’m definitely interested in Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer. I haven’t seen it in over ten years.

  14. Dread P. Roberts

    A man that large making SICKO should have tipped you off. Also he admitted in the 90s that his daughter went to private school… which in my opinion doesn’t further his populist agenda.

    Now this is a logical, sane argument. The truth, in my opinion, is that we are all hypocrites (just like we’re all liars) to one extent or another, when it comes down to it. Even in Bowling for Columbine I believe Moore openly claims to being an avid gun enthusiast. It’s really more about what the agenda is, and where the heart is. Just like the issue in the past over Moore using manipulatory editing tricks to help get his point across, it’s all just a part of the overall experience of the movie that you’re getting involved in. Take it or leave it.

  15. Now this is a logical, sane argument. The truth, in my opinion, is that we are all hypocrites (just like we’re all liars) to one extent or another, when it comes down to it. Even in Bowling for Columbine I believe Moore openly claims to being an avid gun enthusiast. It’s really more about what the agenda is, and where the heart is. Just like the issue in the past over Moore using manipulatory editing tricks to help get his point across, it’s all just a part of the overall experience of the movie that you’re getting involved in. Take it or leave it.

    I do like Moore, but view him as an entertainer first and take his arguments with a grain of salt. This movie looks like Moore retread to me, so I might skip it.

    Moore’s black and white world makes everyone hypocrites I guess.

  16. Dread P. Roberts

    I do like Moore, but view him as an entertainer first and take his arguments with a grain of salt.

    Absolutely. If he wasn’t an entertainer – giving his films that extra little bit of flair, with an emphasis on some shock factor – then I don’t think he would ever have garnered the level of pop-culture popularity that he has. He’s not popular for pointing out the issues, he’s popular for how he goes about doing it. We already know Wall-Mart is the Anti-Christ, but it’s just more amusingly fun when Moore addresses it in some exaggerated fashion. Otherwise it’s just another run-of-the-mill (perhaps downright boring) documentary. So it’s a worthy point.

  17. We already know Wall-Mart is the Anti-Christ, but it’s just more amusingly fun when Moore addresses it in some exaggerated fashion. Otherwise it’s just another run-of-the-mill (perhaps downright boring) documentary. So it’s a worthy point.

    These boring documentaries are by a guy named Robert Greeenwald.

  18. Chuck

    [b]He’s not popular for pointing out the issues, he’s popular for how he goes about doing it.[/b]

    This.

    [b]Hows that, he’s making money off the free market, he puts his goods out there and people buy a ticket and go see his movie. If he wanted to make waves he should of put in the theater for free or donate the money, ALL of it less production costs to some worthy charity, but no. He will make oodles of money on this film and get even richer, the only difference is he is not an evil capatilistic Bank or Wal-mart . . .

    He is a Hypocrite [/b]

    This might be true if the theme of the movie was to denounce people for simply making a profit from their work. But it Isn’t. It’s an indictment of some of the larger corporate powers that make profits off of other people’s labor.

    Is Moore a hypocrite? Sure. Are you? Yep. Am I? Yep. Go see the movie if you want to have an opinion on it.

    Orbit is right. The Girlfriend Experience looks pretty good.

  19. Dread P. Roberts

    Reissues this week are WIZARD OF OZ on blu-ray

    I just caved-in and bought my first Blu-ray player (PS3 Slim) last week. I don’t yet own any actual Blu-ray discs, and I briefly contemplated buying The Wizard of Oz until I saw that the only option was a 70th Anniversary Ultimate Collector’s Edition for $51.99 (which is what Amazon list it as with a 39% discount; actual retail being $84.99). Are you freakin’ kidding me? The absolute most I’d be willing to spend is maybe $24.95 – and even then, it darn well better have some cool extra like: “The E!, True Hollywood Story of the Munchkin mass suicide coverup.”

  20. There are cheaper versions of it out. I got one wholesale in the low 30 dollar range.

    My first blu-ray would be THE FALL. Awesome film and shows off what high def can do.

    I’ve got about 400 if you ever wanted to borrow one (cash up front).

  21. Dread P. Roberts

    There are cheaper versions of it out. I got one wholesale in the low 30 dollar range.

    Where did you shop?

    My first blu-ray would be THE FALL. Awesome film and shows off what high def can do.

    I didn’t even know it was available on Blu-ray, but you’re right, it is a great film, and the cinematography is absolutely stunning at times. Among other things, Lee Pace gives a great performance that really altered the perspective that I had of him after previously watching Pushing Daisies. I wonder if Ken ever caught up with this hidden jewel, like he had been meaning to do.

    I’ve got about 400 if you ever wanted to borrow one (cash up front).

    Thanks for the offer. I’m presuming that like other rental places, there is an extra fee for Blu-rays, right?

  22. JWTJr

    “but it sounds to me like what you are saying is that it’s only Ok to make a statement about various political and financial issues, if one is poor.”

    When you are uber rich and profess the evils of the uber rich and how they got there, there is serious conflict in your statement.

    I like the idea of him donating all (95%)of the profits to charity.

  23. Thanks for the offer. I’m presuming that like other rental places, there is an extra fee for Blu-rays, right?

    $4 for 2 days. Prices are the same with a sub plan. I’m also hunting down the more obscure blu-rays like Criterion.

  24. Dread P. Roberts

    When you are uber rich and profess the evils of the uber rich and how they got there, there is serious conflict in your statement.

    A valid point, but can’t the über rich profess the evil, greedy deeds practiced by other über rich individuals, without actually taking part in those sinister deeds? If it was strictly excessive wealth in general that was being addressed as the issue, then I would agree, but I just don’t see it that way. The problem is the means by which the wealth was acquired, not the actual wealth itself. Moore didn’t commit the crimes that the Banks did, no-matter how much money he has, or how he has chosen to spend it. Now, I haven’t seen the movie yet, so I do have to be careful with my statements. I’m basing this perspective off of the trailer(s). It could all potentially change once I’ve seen the movie.

    I like the idea of him donating all (95%)of the profits to charity.

    If you were excessively wealthy, and the crimes of greedy corporations taking advantage of others, was an issue that bothered you enough to make a documentary, would you do this? If so, then that is admirable in it’s own right, but I personally probably wouldn’t. If I was rich then I would certainly donate a good portion of my wealth to others in need, but I would also enjoy certain luxuries of my spoils to an extent. Besides, I don’t think that this movie looks like it’s intended to be just some gooey story about helping the poverty stricken, so I don’t see how a giant charitable donation is any more relevant in this instance than in any other documentary.

  25. JWTJr

    If he were just after the banks, I’d agree with you. His focus is capitalism and greed. He has participated in plenty of that himself. He exploits others tragedies for his own gain. That has its own unique stink to it.

  26. Dread P. Roberts

    His focus is capitalism and greed. He has participated in plenty of that himself. He exploits others tragedies for his own gain. That has its own unique stink to it.

    I’m afraid I’m going to have to watch the movie before I can comment any further in a constructive manner on this subject.

  27. JWTJr

    I’ll also watch it. However, I have seen several interviews with him commenting on it.

  28. Tonberry

    The real controversy shouldn’t be the new Moore film but the fact that Asheville apparently isn’t getting “A Serious Man” this weekend.

  29. Ken Hanke

    I’m surprised that it is taking CAPITALISM for many people to call him a hypocrite. A man that large making SICKO should have tipped you off. Also he admitted in the 90s that his daughter went to private school… which in my opinion doesn’t further his populist agenda.

    Oh, I doubt it took this film for people to call him a hypocrite — you’re just getting a heady dose of it here, which is exactly what I expected when I put his name and picture at the head of this week’s “Reeler.” I actually did that deliberately because I wanted to see that response in action.

    At the same time, I don’t really see how Moore’s size has any bearing on attacking the U.S. health care system. And really, if I generated the kind hatred that Moore does, my daughter would be in a private school, too. (Of course, my daughter is 33 and not in school at all, so the point is moot.)

    What amuses me is how scared the right-wingers are of him. Why? Did Bowling for Columbine result in gun control? Did Fahrenheit 9/11 prevent Dubya’s re-election? Did Sicko give us socialized medicine? His appeals for change have not exactly been overly successful, and I doubt that this film is going to topple capitalism.

  30. Ken Hanke

    Rian Johnson, John Cameron Mitchell and Ramin Bahrani are the three guys hitting em out of the ballpark. It’s too bad that they are in an era where funds for these films are drying up.

    I don’t think funds are really drying up that badly. I certainly don’t envision Johnson having trouble getting another film going. Mitchell is an immense talent, but is he even working on anything? Hedwig and Shortbus are key movies of the 21st century, but where is he going — or is he going at all? And I don’t think the paucity of output is entirely due to the financial end of things. Bahrani isn’t in the same league as these two for me. He’s good — or so the one film I’ve seen indicates — but that film didn’t really stick with me and I doubt I’ll feel compelled to see it a second time, nor did it make me rush out to see his earlier films. It may simply be that his style and his material just aren’t my dish of tea.

  31. Ken Hanke

    This might be true if the theme of the movie was to denounce people for simply making a profit from their work. But it Isn’t. It’s an indictment of some of the larger corporate powers that make profits off of other people’s labor.

    I don’t know who you are, but I’d gladly buy you a drink. This is the point that Moore’s detractors miss — just as they mystically divine how much money Moore has and/or how he spends it. I doubt seriously that he has anything like a “gazillion” dollars. He’s assuredly not in that top one percent he’s aiming at. So really aren’t his detractors doing exactly what they claim he is — distorting the truth? Is it exploiting the misfortunes of others to get their stories out there? Is he exploiting the disenfranchised or is he speaking for them because they can’t? Does anyone seriously think that someone with no clout and no money has the ability to communicate these stories to the larger world? Guess that depends on either your outlook, or the outlook you want to have (and, yes, that statement works both ways).

    Is Moore a hypocrite? Sure. Are you? Yep. Am I? Yep.

    Everyone is one way or another. And if you think you aren’t, you’re likely an even bigger hypocrite.

  32. Ken Hanke

    My first blu-ray would be THE FALL. Awesome film and shows off what high def can do.

    I’m partly still holding out for a region free player I can afford, but I’m also holding out something to come out that I just have to have in Blu-ray. (Wizard of Oz on plain DVD is enough for me.) Justin says that I’ll buy one the day Tommy comes out and he’s right, but Moulin Rouge! and/or Across the Universe might tip the scales. Are these out? I haven’t noticed them.

  33. Ken Hanke

    I wonder if Ken ever caught up with this hidden jewel, like he had been meaning to do.

    No — although the poster known as Tonberry keeps wanting to show it to me (The Fall, I mean). It will happen, but next week I’ll be in Florida and I’ll be coming back to deal with the Asheville Film Festival, so Clapton knows when I’ll have the time.

  34. Ken Hanke

    The real controversy shouldn’t be the new Moore film but the fact that Asheville apparently isn’t getting “A Serious Man” this weekend.

    It’s only opening in a handful of theaters. Focus is still deciding what to do with it. Watch the numbers this weekend, they’ll tell the story of what happens next. On the one hand, it’s a Coen Brothers picture, which is in its favor for a fairly wide release. On the other, it has no one in it anyone ever heard of. So all it’s got going for it is the Coen name.

  35. Chuck

    I suspect that if “Asheville Dweller” had lived in colonial America in the late 1700’s, he would have criticized the ‘Founding Fathers’ for attacking the King of England–something along the lines of “They are Hypocrites–they claim to want freedom from England, and yet they speak English.

  36. I’m partly still holding out for a region free player I can afford, but I’m also holding out something to come out that I just have to have in Blu-ray. (Wizard of Oz on plain DVD is enough for me.) Justin says that I’ll buy one the day Tommy comes out and he’s right, but Moulin Rouge! and/or Across the Universe might tip the scales. Are these out? I haven’t noticed them.

    Ken, most dvd players are region free… you just have to type in a code. If you’re talking about blu-ray, I believe that imported older titles are region-free as well.

  37. Ken Hanke

    Ken, most dvd players are region free… you just have to type in a code. If you’re talking about blu-ray, I believe that imported older titles are region-free as well.

    I’ve heard the business about typing in the code — and then it gets explained to me how to do this and my techo-resistant gene kicks in and I go back to the region-free online store. I haven’t heard anything about imported older titles being region-free. Certainly the Laurel and Hardy and Sternberg movies I’ve bought from Amazon UK haven’t been.

  38. Asheville Dweller

    Yes Chuck, because making up a new language makes senes, well in your eyes.

    Don’t you think its funny a Capitalist whining about Capitalism?? Oh wait Mikey must be one of your heroes.

  39. Susan

    If you criticize America while carrying guns or threatening signs, doesn’t that mean you should leave America even quicker?

    I have been told many times that if I don’t like America, then I should leave.

  40. JWTJr

    Ken – Michael Moore told many truths in his movies as well as many lies to earn his fortune. He duped people with significant falsehoods. Sound familiar? Kind of like corporate America has done lately? He is a hypocrite in a big way with his preachiness in this project.

  41. Ken Hanke

    He duped people with significant falsehoods.

    A little verifiable specificity here woould go a long way toward making me think this is anything other than typical rightist Moore bashing.

    He is a hypocrite in a big way with his preachiness in this project.

    Well, let’s say I don’t see it, but I have seen the film. I’m not sure exactly how you know the film is preachy if you haven’t seen it. This whole “he’s a hypocrite because he has money and makes a profit off his work” thing isn’t impressing me. You show me where the film says it’s wrong to make money. Show me where Moore is exploiting the people who work for him or taking out “dead peasant” life insurance policies on his workers. Then you’ll be on to something.

  42. JWTJr

    I work in Health Care. Sicko was junk, pure junk. It made some good points, but most were exaggerations or outright falsehoods.

    If you saw Farenhype 9/11 .. the rebuttal to his 9/11 movie, you have to admit he twisted much … not all …. there as well. That’s enough for me.

    I had no issues with his other movies … other than him being kind of an ambulance chaser.

    I’ve watched a number of interviews with him, but have not seen the movie. Unless his interviews are different than the movie, I feel like I get the gist. He’s guilty of many of the things he accuses others of. Exploiting capitalism with half truths for his own personal gain.

  43. Asheville Dweller

    Its not working if he is bringing attention to capitalism as being negative, and he makes tons of money with his work then yes he is a Capitalist.

    Its the point that he bringing up capitalism when he is in fact a capitalist, he is the pot calling the kettle black. Of course he is a successful capitalist he is a sucessful movie maker and Millionaire.

    But just like the mindset of Asheville the only forms of capitalism that exist are, Wal-Mart, Microsoft and big evil banks. Apple PC’s are ok even though they are a Corp but considered cool and hip.

    You can’t pick things that are ok and not ok based off if you like them, you can’t think Microsoft is evil and Apple is ok because one is the same.

    A rich Blow hard either Moore or Limbaugh are the same, they are both capitalists and make lots of money from Capitalism. Its just funny that Mikey would point fingers at the big evil banks and investors. But its ok he claims to live in a slum area of MI but lives in a mansion in an upscale part, Claims Bush is in cahoots with certain orignizations that Moore him self is a stockholer of, claims to hate guns but his body gaurds carries them, Loves Canadian Healthcare but has Dr’s where, In America . . . .

    He is A Hypicrite . ..

  44. I’ve heard the business about typing in the code—and then it gets explained to me how to do this and my techo-resistant gene kicks in and I go back to the region-free online store. I haven’t heard anything about imported older titles being region-free. Certainly the Laurel and Hardy and Sternberg movies I’ve bought from Amazon UK haven’t been.

    Are those discs that you bought dvds or blu-ray.

    It’s extremely simple to make your dvd player region free. Go to this link.

    http://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks

  45. Ken Hanke

    Well, since I’m seeing nothing but the same old cries of “hypocrite” from the same two people…

  46. Ken Hanke

    Are those discs that you bought dvds or blu-ray.

    They’re regular DVDs, but the point is actually moot, since I’d still want to be able to play them on the new player.

    It’s extremely simple to make your dvd player region free. Go to this link.

    I think I’ve been to this link before and am too technically challenged, but I’ll look. However, what about the PAL to NTSC question?

  47. Asheville Dweller

    Can’t refute it? Making too much sense? If not then explain instead of lording over us with you wisdom since you seem to know better? Or are you upset that we have a valid opinion that doesnt match yours, which you have poorly defended?

    Keep whining about what the same two people are saying but at least try to refute instead of pouting or condede. Its called valid Arguments from both sides but you don’t wish to continue because apparantly facts mean nothing to you, like alot of the folks here in Asheville.

    You should know that Mikey would be a bullseye of comments worshiping him and attacking him. I still plan the see the movie, I love a good Comedy.

  48. I think I’ve been to this link before and am too technically challenged, but I’ll look. However, what about the PAL to NTSC question?

    All of the world’s dvd players are being made in the same plants in China, so most will do a PAL conversion no problem.

    I’d be happy to look at your player sometime.

  49. Ken Hanke

    Can’t refute it? Making too much sense? If not then explain instead of lording over us with you wisdom since you seem to know better?

    I’m still waiting for something like facts. I’m not seeing them. Let’s see some actual statements about what Moore does with his money. Let’s see where Moore says that making money is in itself evil. All I’m seeing is “Michael Moore is a hypocrite” over and over. You’ve said why you think so. I’ve said why I don’t. What else is there to say?

    The idea that Fahrenheit 9/11 is completely disproven by the right wing response to it, Fahrenhype 9/11, is telling because it works on the assumption that the response film is utterly truthful.

  50. Ken Hanke

    I’d be happy to look at your player sometime.

    That might be the wisest thing. Wiser still might be getting a Blu-ray player and letting you hack the damned thing.

  51. JWTJr

    I didn’t say that Fahrenheit 9/11 is completely disproven. I said the rebuttal showed many things that Moore did wrong.

  52. Asheville Dweller

    The reason why you whined earlier about seeing the same thing, I see problems with people not sharing your view point.

    Never said making money is evil, he is claiming that Capitalism itself is evil, and he is making money off of what?? you got it, he is picking what is evil and what is not. When one is the same as the other.

    I also listed several points you ignored its ok, I know that facts are useless to some people because they think they know better. Its better to believe the hype then to question it.

  53. Ken Hanke

    I said the rebuttal showed many things that Moore did wrong.

    And did you check the rebuttal’s findings against anything or take them at face value?

  54. Ken Hanke

    The reason why you whined earlier about seeing the same thing, I see problems with people not sharing your view point.

    I don’t care about sharing your viewpoint. You’ve been around the Xpress boards doing the “Mystery Logger” thing for a while now, and I don’t think I’ve ever shared your viewpoint. And I certainly don’t care to share yours. That’s not the point. The point is that all you do is keep repeating the same “he’s a hypocrite” mantra over and over. That appears to be your entire point.

    What I was trying to convey is that I’m done arguing with you, because you actually have no other point to make. You can keep repeating it and twisting it and claiming that you’ve proved something if you like.

  55. Dread P. Roberts

    T minus 5, 4, 3…’till commencement of angry name calling. (Please don’t call me a meany poo poo head; I just don’t know if I could take it.)

    Mr. Asheville Hater – excuse me, “Dweller” – must surely be sinisterly smirking with glee, while twirling a curvy mustache, at the prospect of continuing to annoy and perturb the nimble minded, foolhardy, liberal, self-centered Asheville folk (because, of course, we are all the same you see), living in their silly little bubble of a world, completely out of touch with the outer-realm of reality. If only we would stop mubbling and ranting long enough to pull our heads out of our asses, and listen to words of wisdom from the great and mighty “Asheville Dweller“, attempting desperately to save us from ourselves. (Perhaps I’ve gotten a little carried away.)

  56. Piffy!

    [b]Don’t you think its funny a Capitalist whining about Capitalism?? Oh wait Mikey must be one of your heroes. [/b]

    Umm. Have you seen the movie? He isnt whining about “Capitalism”. The movie is about obscene corporate profits that take money away from hard working Americans. Not much different than the “Tea Party” Platform, really.

    NOTHING in the movie is an indictment of people making money.

    You just make up your mind before you even have any information.

    Go see the movie. You will be pleasantly surprised to find out it isnt about nationlazing your sock drawer.

  57. Piffy!

    [b]Never said making money is evil, he is claiming that Capitalism itself is evil, and he is making money off of what?? you got it, he is picking what is evil and what is not. When one is the same as the other.[/b]

    If you HAVENT SEN THE MOVIE, then on what do you base your opinion? Because clearly it isnt rooted in anything other than hyperbole and assumption.

    Go see the movie if you want to have an opinion on it based in fact.

    Or don’t. But dont tell me what its about, then.

  58. Asheville Dweller

    Have you seen the movie it doesnt start until Friday, I know Ken can see early, how about you Pfff.

    And both of you have skipped all over my points trying to get a leg up, both failing miserably because facts are hard to argue, and don’t worry I am going to see his movie, just like I always do, like I said I love a good comedy.

    My opinion is based on his other works of fiction and distortion of the truth he is famous for. I know whats coming, I know how he thinks we have seen this before because is constantly trying to portray the good American making movies about things.

    But thats not the question the question is he has a problem with capitalism and he is a capitalist, plain and simple.

    and Dread, No I just like to come on here and voice an opinion just like everyone else but when you bring up facts that some refuse to retort, and skip and then yes it returns to name calling. I think its funny how some can get their feathers ruffled if one of the flock even dares to think differently against their opinion or progressiveness. For a town that screams its about free thinking and one thinks on his own they are the enemy. Sorry folks I am not a Conservative or A liberal, wouldnt be caught dead being one or Labeling myself as such.

  59. JWTJr

    The rebuttal had issues too. I agree. That doesn’t mean that MM’s didn’t. MM started the discussion with serious flaws. He gets the most blame.

  60. James Fisher

    Wow, Mr. Moore sure fires ’em up. And the movie is not even here.

    Actually, I was going to say that Ricky Gervais’ Ghost Town (terrible title, yes) was actually a pretty good little romantic comedy. Nothing incredible,but I stumbled upon it on cable the other evening and watched the whole thing. Man enough to admit it, too.

  61. chuck

    [b]No I just like to come on here and voice an opinion just like everyone else but when you bring up facts that some refuse to retort, and skip and then yes it returns to name calling. [/b]

    What “facts” are those again? That Michael Moore is making money and that somehow means he can’t be critical of AIG and Government Bailouts? If that’s the case, then talk-show radio hosts better stop complaining about it too.

    Michael Moore is a whiny douche, no doubt. But your critique of the content of his film is off the mark.

  62. Dread P. Roberts

    For a town that screams its about free thinking and one thinks on his own they are the enemy.

    Well sir, I am a very big advocate for free thinking, and would never intentionally discourage anyone from doing so. But the point of my satirical approach is that I’ve noticed an unpleasant pattern of repeatedly bashing and stereotyping Ashevillian’s with negative comments. Now, the real issue becomes the aggressive, confrontational attitude being displayed, not the fact that you (or anyone else) simply has a different opinion. I strongly encourage a difference of opinion when the conversational debate is kept mature, polite, logical and intelligently informative. It can make for an interesting exchange that I wouldn’t otherwise have with someone who’s opinions I’m more apt to share. But one can’t go galavanting about as a superior intellectual – especially without worthy evidence to support their case – and expect others to take their opinion into consideration, or even listen at all for that matter. Comprende?

    Actually, I was going to say that Ricky Gervais’ Ghost Town (terrible title, yes) was actually a pretty good little romantic comedy.

    I agree, it is an great little Rom Com. My wife and I laughed, and enjoyed it equally together. That is a worthy feat in the genre in this day and age, and I recommend it to anyone shopping desperately for something good to pull out of this often cliché genre.

  63. Ken Hanke

    Actually, I was going to say that Ricky Gervais’ Ghost Town (terrible title, yes) was actually a pretty good little romantic comedy.

  64. Ken Hanke

    Sorry folks I am not a Conservative or A liberal, wouldnt be caught dead being one or Labeling myself as such.

    And like every other person I’ve seen make that claim, I have yet to see you make one even remotely liberal statement.

  65. Ken Hanke

    What “facts” are those again?

    Apparently, it’s unnecessary to actually have facts and is quite enough to say you’ve presented them (Sen. Joe McCarthy got a lot of mileage out of that).

  66. Ken Hanke

    But the point of my satirical approach is that I’ve noticed an unpleasant pattern of repeatedly bashing and stereotyping Ashevillian’s with negative comments.

    I’ve never seen Mr. Dweller do anything else.

  67. Asheville Dweller

    Thats because the other views in question are not mentioned in here. We are talking about Michael Moore and whether or not he is a Hypicrite. And most of the discussion has turned into whining about whts been said and no backing up what they said, so those free thinking people in here start dropping R’s and D’s like its a curse or standard.

    And never seen a certain movie critic do nothing but whine when his views are questioned and refuted with facts. Along with whining there is name calling clearly against the MX terms of Service, but he is not the only one. Usually when someone doesn’t follow the herd of people are called names and other violations of the Terms of Service, but its ok because one 1) Just like Asheville the MX is afraid of anything that doesn’t have a status quo opinion. 2) They are in fact extremely narrowminded.

    Would be different if it wasn’t true, I know the mindset of this town, I used to be just like that but I grew up, and past the petty name calling and narrowminded that plagues this town.

  68. Ken Hanke

    The only person whining, Mr. Dweller, is you. You do it so well, but goats are crossing your bridge while you fritter away your time doing it.

    Here are the facts — you said Michael Moore is a hypocrite because he’s made a film about capitalism that he’s making money from. Others — including myself — have disagreed and said why. You’ve followed this by simply restating your original premise again and again and again, claiming it as fact.

  69. Dread P. Roberts

    Did you not read my last comment, Mr. Dweller? Because it would appear that a good portion of what you’re continuing to say, only serves to further fuel what I’ve said. I was kind of hoping for something along the lines of a refutal, rather than a confirmation of my accusations.

    Just like Asheville the MX is afraid of anything that doesn’t have a status quo opinion. 2) They are in fact extremely narrowminded.

    Do you not have a problem with stereotyping?
    I’ve read similar variants of this declaration from you several times in the past. I think the narrowminded point has been clearly made by now. What do you hope to achieve by continually restating this? I’m not trying to be a wise donkey, I honestly want to know.

  70. A-Ville Dweller

    Michael Moore is a hypocrite. It’s a fact, and that is my opinion which I am entitled to. If he wants to point out that making money is evil, then he should live in a mud hut, instead of trying to be a big hollywood star.

    Of course, the opened minded liberals of Asheville just feel the need to make accusations without any facts, and when pressed, just throw out political labels instead of actually defending their opinions, which they are entitled to, but are not supported by the facts, which is my opinion. Ge the facts. But don’t go see the movie, because it is Socialist Propaganda.

  71. Ken Hanke

    Michael Moore is a hypocrite. It’s a fact, and that is my opinion which I am entitled to.

    Yes, it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. But that does not make it a fact.

    But don’t go see the movie, because it is Socialist Propaganda

    I was wondering how long it would be before the “socialism” charge got brought up. I’m actually surprised it took so long. Of course, how Mr. Dweller knows that a film he hasn’t seen is “Socialist Propaganda” is somewhat remarkable in itself — especially for one who only deals in “facts.”

  72. Piffy!

    JWJr.–

    [b]Michael Moore told many truths in his movies as well as many lies to earn his fortune. He duped people with significant falsehoods. [/b]

    Specifics?

    [b]I work in Health Care. Sicko was junk, pure junk. It made some good points, but most were exaggerations or outright falsehoods.

    If you saw Farenhype 9/11 .. the rebuttal to his 9/11 movie, you have to admit he twisted much … not all …. there as well. That’s enough for me.

    [/b]

    Those aren’t specifics. They are more opinions. Can you list specific examples of “outright falsehoods’?

    I don’t necessarily doubt you. i’ve never liked Moore very much. He’s a panderer. But it seems if you are going to claim something is a lie, you could at least back it up.

  73. A-Ville Dweller

    Michael Moore is a hypocrite. It’s a fact, and that is my opinion which I am entitled to. If he wants to point out that making money is evil, then he should live in a mud hut, instead of trying to be a big hollywood star.

    Of course, the opened minded liberals of Asheville just feel the need to make accusations without any facts, and when pressed, just throw out political labels instead of actually defending their opinions, which they are entitled to, but are not supported by the facts, which is my opinion. Ge the facts. But don’t go see the movie, because it is Socialist Propaganda.

  74. JWTJr

    I’m not going to play that game piffy.

    You don’t work in health care and won’t understand what I’m saying.

    Go watch both 9/11 and the rebuttal. See them for yourself.

    I’ll make good points and you’ll target them with snark. I have better things to do.

  75. Piffy!

    [b]I’m not going to play that game piffy. [/b]

    By which you mean you aren’t going to provide me with any facts to back up your assertion of “outright” and “significant falsehoods”?

    [b]I’ll make good points and you’ll target them with snark. I have better things to do. [/b]

    Yes, I’m sure you would, if you just had the time. Too bad me asking for specifics so i can better understand your point is so ‘snarky’. I will remember that for future reference.

  76. Piffy!

    [b] And most of the discussion has turned into whining about whts been said and no backing up what they said, so those free thinking people in here start dropping R’s and D’s like its a curse or standard.

    And never seen a certain movie critic do nothing but whine when his views are questioned and refuted with facts.[/b]

    you keep referring to these ‘facts’ that no one can refute. But you haven’t actually presented them yet. You’ve given your opinion, for sure. But where are the facts?

    [b]Would be different if it wasn’t true, I know the mindset of this town, I used to be just like that but I grew up, and past the petty name calling and narrowminded that plagues this town. [/b]

    You keep mentioning this, too. Who called you names? And how is you calling people ‘narrowminded’ not the same ‘name-calling’?

  77. Ken Hanke

    You don’t work in health care and won’t understand what I’m saying.

    Oh, please. First of all, your claim that you work in health care is unverifiable, since you’re only a screen name. “I work in health care” is incredibly elastic and could mean anything from brain surgeon to taking out the trash. But let’s say we accept the first and assume you to be at least an LPN, it’s still just your take on the matter. I know three other people in health care — one doctor and two RNs — who found Sicko to be pretty spot on.

  78. Ken Hanke

    you keep referring to these ‘facts’ that no one can refute. But you haven’t actually presented them yet. You’ve given your opinion, for sure. But where are the facts?

    He doesn’t have any. The “facts” are that he says Michael Moore is a hypocrite. That’s it. Now, you’ll notice, all he’s doing is copying and pasting his last post again.

    You keep mentioning this, too. Who called you names? And how is you calling people ‘narrowminded’ not the same ‘name-calling’?

    You may have noticed that Mr. Dweller trolls the site looking for opportunities to talk about how lousy, self-centered and deluded the people in Asheville are. This seems to be his primary goal in life. Obviously he failed to become a member of some circle of Asheville “coolness” and is now out to throw cold water on everyone he thinks has wronged him.

  79. Will

    Mr. Hanke, I’m starting to think that you’re wasting your time even responding to the comments at all, at least to the ones that don’t seem to promise much intelligent discussion. How much culmulative time have you wasted in this one argument? Life is short.

    Darn, now I’ve wasted my time, too. I’m getting off the Internet.

  80. Ken Hanke

    Mr. Hanke, I’m starting to think that you’re wasting your time even responding to the comments at all, at least to the ones that don’t seem to promise much intelligent discussion

    You’re only starting to think that?

  81. Ken Hanke

    Delicious. Moore ‘Facts’

    Wow, you’ve sure convinced me — one untruth and a couple of not quite right ones? I suppose that first one — which overlooks the right wing scare tactics about insurance that have been working overtime in between July (the poll he cited) and now — is supposed to prove how Sicko is mostly lies?

  82. Dread P. Roberts

    I hate to say it, but I think it would be really great if an actual troll was posting on this site. I just have this visual image of the ugly bastard laughing maniacally to himself, as he types away in his cave. Oh no, now I have an inexplicable urge to watch Ernest Scared Stupid again. What the hell is wrong with me?

  83. Ken Hanke

    Oh no, now I have an inexplicable urge to watch Ernest Scared Stupid again. What the hell is wrong with me?

    It’s the word “again” that I find troubling. Oh, wait, I’ve seen it, too.

  84. JWTJr

    Ken – ignoring MM’s troublesome record on twisting facts shows you to be a partisan. I admit he gets some things right. Are you afraid to admit he goes over the top as well?

  85. Ken Hanke

    Ken – ignoring MM’s troublesome record on twisting facts shows you to be a partisan. I admit he gets some things right. Are you afraid to admit he goes over the top as well?

    Well, I never said I wasn’t a partisan. I am. I am of the card-carrying liberal stripe and I’ve never disguised the fact. Does Moore go “over the top?” Sure, but all activists of either persuasion do, and all activist documentaries pick and interpret their facts to support their agendas. I’m actually less worried about that aspect of him than I am about his showboating and grandstanding, which I find a little grating and wearing out its welcome.

  86. Piffy!

    [b]Delicious. Moore ‘Facts’[/b]

    JW–Neither of those address the multiple falsehoods you have previously claimed he used in his movies.

    you said: [b]I work in Health Care. Sicko was junk, pure junk. It made some good points, but most were exaggerations or outright falsehoods. [/b]

    so what are the lies?

  87. entopticon

    A-Ville Dweller (who seems to be quite the Avl hater) claims that Moore is a liar that is a hypocrite because makes money from making documentaries that criticize the excesses and inhumane practices of corporatism, yet A-Ville Dweller openly admits that he is going to be one of the people who is going to put money in Moore’s pockets and add to his box office totals, so that Moore can make more of those films… and that is not hypocritical somehow? Hmmm…

  88. entopticon

    It actually raises an interesting conundrum… if you are curious about a film, but don’t want to put money in the pockets of those who made it because you have an ethical conflict with the message that they are spreading, what do you do? In the case of a critic, such as Ken, I don’t think there is a conflict, because critiquing the film rightly exempts the moviegoer from that conflict of interests.

    Personally, I usually wait till it comes out on cable. An example of a film that I was curious about, but couldn’t support by buying a ticket in good conscience, was the Passion of the Christ.

  89. Ken Hanke

    A-Ville Dweller openly admits that he is going to be one of the people who is going to put money in Moore’s pockets and add to his box office totals, so that Moore can make more of those films… and that is not hypocritical somehow?

    Assuming you get an answer (which I doubt), I predict that the answer will involve buying a ticket to some other movie and ducking into Capitalism instead.

    In the case of a critic, such as Ken, I don’t think there is a conflict, because critiquing the film rightly exempts the moviegoer from that conflict of interests.

    Bear in mind that critics rarely pay to see a movie.

  90. Ken Hanke

    Partisanship keeps you from seeing the truth

    It appears to keep you from answering direct questions, too.

  91. JWTJr

    I have to say that I agree with many of the premises of the movie. Banking and Insurance went over the top and have asked for a big smack down.

    I don’t like his attack on Capitalism as a concept. His denial that Capitalism has helped him and his career was ridiculous and a complete denial of the facts.

    One point I was completely surprised/impressed with was his zing on Chris Dodd. That guy has dodged too many bullets. He was totally in bed with Countrywide and abused his position as a Senator.

  92. Ken Hanke

    I don’t like his attack on Capitalism as a concept. His denial that Capitalism has helped him and his career was ridiculous and a complete denial of the facts.

    His attack on capitalism isn’t as sweeping as all that. It’s clearly aimed at corrupt, unfettered capitalism as it’s being played today. Nowhere in the film did I hear him say that you oughtn’t be able to make money, nor that you shouldn’t have possessions. I also don’t remember him denying that capitalism has helped his career. Do you have a specific quote to that effect, or are you assuming it from the overall content of the film?

  93. JWTJr

    His quote about him and his success was recent when a reporter quizzed him. I’ll see if I can find it.

    CNN and fact checking? That’s an oxymoron.

  94. Ken Hanke

    CNN and fact checking? That’s an oxymoron

    Would you say the same about Fox News?

  95. Chuck

    JWTJr.

    You still haven’t produced a single example of a lie in any of Michael Moore’s movies, despite making the claim repeatedly.

    Why not? Why just keep copying the same reference to a quote of his about Single Payer when you surely know that doesnt back up your assertion one iota (Hint: It’s not from one of his movies)?

  96. Piffy!

    [b]His quote about him and his success was recent when a reporter quizzed him. I’ll see if I can find it.[/b]

    You mean this CNN interview, where Moore discusses the ‘upper one percent’ of embedded interests that essentially control our ‘Democracy’ and rebuts every prepared argument you’ve parroted on this thread?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqRvpBqEgCE

    What’s funny, JWTJr., is if you actually listened to what he’s saying, you’d probably have to admit that you agree with a good portion of what he is saying.

    You’re cries of “hypocrite” are clearly not based on the specifics of the case, and if you approach this with an actual open mind, you might find yourself agreeing with the anti-Wall Street, anti Bailout, anti-Bank information he presents.

    He goes after both Republicans and Democrats. If you saw the film, you would know this.

  97. Mummer

    I’ve not seen CAPITALISM yet, but from what I’ve seen in previews, it seems to be arguing against corporations using their power and influence to gain special advantages for themselves. Such practices are actually in opposition to free market principles.

    For Moore to be a hypocrite, he would have to be engaging in practices that he is denouncing. He may be a “capitalist,” and his film may be titled “Capitalism,” but his alleged hypocrisy isn’t proven by establishing only those facts. It would have to be proven that he’s engaging in the specific practices he’s addressing in the film. I don’t think anybody has done that, and I don’t think they’re able to.

    Moore is, I believe, advocating social democracy, which isn’t socialism. It allows for profits, and it allows for commerce and finance. He admires France, not the USSR, and maybe this surprises some people, but there are capitalists in France.

  98. JWTJr

    Piffy – If you read my posts … you’d read that I agreed with a good bit of the movie.

    What I don’t like about MM is his ego and his fact twisting. He doesn’t twist them all, he twists enough to significantly erode his integrity. Thanks for backing up my point.

    Yes Ken, Fox has its own issues as well. I’ve given up on partisanship. Maybe some day, you will too.

    Chuck .. I’m not going to list them all here. Watch the rebuttal to his 9/11 movie and go to politifact.com. Read them for yourself. That is if you have time you can spare from worshiping of the Mammoth Michael Moore idol.

  99. Ken Hanke

    he twists enough to significantly erode his integrity. Thanks for backing up my point.

    I’m not sure who backed up your point, but you keep wanting to hold Moore to a higher standard than any of his detractors and people in the other camp. This is perhaps why I’m a little skeptical of the claim of non-partisanship.

    I’m not going to list them all here

    I think he asked you to list a single one, which you’ve still yet to do.

    Watch the rebuttal to his 9/11 movie and go to politifact.com.

    What has the rebuttal to the 9/11 movie have to do with all those lies in Sicko? Why exactly is the rebuttal to the 9/11 movie held to a lower standard for accuracy and fact-twisting than Moore? (And, no, the “he started it” argument isn’t good enough.) And just why is politifact.com the last word in veracity? I can spot numerous instances of spinning in every entry I’ve read.

    if you have time you can spare from worshiping of the Mammoth Michael Moore idol.

    You’re addressing this to the guy who wrote, “Michael Moore is a whiny douche, no doubt”? It seems a pretty remarkable leap.

  100. entopticon

    “CNN and fact checking? That’s an oxymoron.”

    Yes, CNN, like any other news agency can get the facts wrong sometimes. That’s why they actually had to publicly apologize to Michael Moore when Sanjay Gupta had wrongly accused Michael Moore of misstating facts in Sicko. After CNN’s fact checkers analyzed the claims, they came down on Moore’s side. The fact checkers at CNN are generally as rigorous as anywhere else. Even a partisan tabloid faux news station like Fox has to have fact checkers, because it would be a litigious nightmare otherwise.

    Again and again you were challenged to back up the case for your argument that Moore is a liar, and you have failed. Citing some ridiculously goofy partisan nonsense like Dick Morris’s Farenhype 9/11 certainly doesn’t cut it. Politifact is a reasonable source, but you have failed to make a compelling argument that they support your case. Again, if the trained team of factcheckers at CNN couldn’t find evidence to support your claims, it is not likely that you will.

  101. JWTJr

    Partisanship forces you to support knuckleheads sometimes. MM comparing himself to the founding fathers gave me a chuckle. I’m sure you guys wished he had been there to sign the Constitution.

  102. JWTJr

    Ent – you don’t like Dick Morris because he defected from your precious left wing extremism. Both documentaries had truth in them. I’m not afraid to admit that the way you are.

    I’d say we all get together and watch all these flicks over over beers, but I’d need to bring one of those suits you wear to train attack dogs. Ken would prob behave, but Piffy and Ent would be in attach mode.

  103. molton

    Attach or attack? That’s like humping or creating open wounds. Your brain needs a copy editor.

  104. entopticon

    JWT Jr, why do you insist on projecting your nonsense? Dick Morris was a left wing extremist? You live in a fantasy world. Morris was a Republican strategist that went to work for the Clinton administration (he had helped them in Arkansas) where he pushed triangulation, which is essentially taking the opposition’s platforms and claiming them as your own. In other words, he spent most of his time in the Clinton administration pushing Republican platforms. You have a pretty odd notion of what a left wing extremist is.

    He resigned in shame after it came to public attention that he had a fetish for toe sucking and sex with prostitutes, but now he pretends to be Mr family values. And currently he is one of the extremist, bigoted lunatics behind Newsmax. About the only thing he is good for is giving John Stewart an easy target for drawing attention to just how truly ludicrous and hilariously hypocritical the extreme right really is.

  105. entopticon

    Oh and don’t worry Jr, I am not going to try to “attach” myself to you.

  106. JWTJr

    I never said that I could type perfectly. I’m glad none of you guys want to attach to me.

  107. entopticon

    Well then, now that you don’t want me to attach myself to you any longer, I change my mind. I am going to Home Depot for some bungie cords and a small drum of epoxy.

  108. Piffy!

    oh boy, a hyper-partisan liberal and a hyper-partisan conservative arguing talking points. this can only turn out well.

  109. Piffy!

    let’s see if they can finally decide who is more ‘center’, cnn or fox??

  110. Piffy!

    [b]Piffy – If you read my posts … you’d read that I agreed with a good bit of the movie.[/b]

    WHAT?!?!? Where?!

    [b]What I don’t like about MM is his ego and his fact twisting. He doesn’t twist them all, he twists enough to significantly erode his integrity. Thanks for backing up my point.[/b]

    Wow. It’s like you think we can’t go back and read your previous statements claiming he was a ‘liar’ and his movies were filled with ‘lies’.

  111. entopticon

    pfff…. You sure do like to hear yourself talk, but it is a shame that your words rarely correspond with reality. I am a hyper-partisan? Of which party would that be? Actually, I would prefer proportional representation, but in the mean time, I lean towards the Democrats because the Republicans have been pushed so far to the absurd fringes of the far right.

    And I may not always agree with JWT Jr, but you are talking out your ass when you call him “hyper-partisan.” He has made it perfectly clear on a number of occasions that that isn’t the case.

  112. entopticon

    Thinking about it, your criticism is particularly ironic, because on some of the threads that I have been the most vocal on, I have actually come down on the conservative side, and you are perfectly well aware of that. The issue of meat eating and Urban Outfitters being a couple examples.

    Personally, I think that conservative and liberal are false polemics because they are not actually in contradiction with one another, except as practiced politically in the two party system. It’s funny how you want me to be the caricature that you have invented in your head, so you conveniently just ignore all evidence to the contrary.

  113. JWTJr

    Ent – I have to agree with you on most of that. I agree that conservative and liberal labels are getting out dated. Many people have ideals that fall into both categories. Our 2 party system and the info overload of today’s times unfortunately are polarizing many that probably agree on much.

    I must say though, that you have created much of your own caricature when you’ve labeled many of those folks as ‘right wing extremists’ based on one or two topics.

  114. Piffy!

    you can hear my voice? wow. i just see words on a screen.

    [b]I have actually come down on the conservative side, and you are perfectly well aware of that. The issue of meat eating and Urban Outfitters being a couple examples.[/b]

    wow, i had no idea those were ‘conservative’ issues. so, all “Liberals” are hard core vegetarian/vegans and all Conservatives eat meat? huh.

  115. Piffy!

    JW-[b]I’m sure you guys wished he had been there to sign the Constitution. [/b]

    Really?? Based on what? because we have asked for facts to back up your assertions? I think basically everyone in this thread who has challenged your assertions of “lies!”has also said they arent big fans of how Michael moore presents his case. I know i have, and ken has. So on what do you base your statement that we wish ” he had been there to sign the Constitution. “?

    Or is that jsut more hyperbole and posturing because you STILL havent found a SINGLE FACT to uphold your assertion that “Sicko” was full of “lies”?

  116. entopticon

    pfff, do you have a gas leak in your stove, or are you just like that naturally? In a thread on meat eating I pointed out that small farms and local food are something that both parties could get behind. Yes indeed, politically, vegetarianism verses meat eating is often seen as a left verses right issue.

    Again, your comments that I am a hyper-partisan, and that JWT Jr is for that matter, are just you spewing a bunch of crap with no basis in reality, as usual. I have news for you: preferring a proportional representation system is actually the opposite of hyper-partisan.

    I have actually told you before that I am conservative on some political issues, and liberal on others, and that I don’t see those two things being in conflict, so your argument is ridiculous, but you have repeatedly demonstrated that you have little concern for the truth, because all you can do is rant about fictional caricatures that you have invented in your imagination as a way to vent the anger that comes from the hollowness of your arguments.

  117. entopticon

    JWT Jr, I honestly believe that the GOP has been hijacked by theocratic right-wing extremists. The extremism of the paleocons and neocons has hijacked the party and the issues. I am very encouraged to see some on the right trying to reclaim the party from that insanity.

  118. Piffy!

    entop–i dont know what crawled in your pantaloons, but i was referring to me and ken with my ‘hyper-partisan’ comment.

    But thank you for referring me to your stance on diet as an example of your bipartisan efforts. Conservative Meat Eaters everywhere sigh a collective breath of re-leaf. Huzzah!

  119. Piffy!

    [b]ENT- I must say though, that you have created much of your own caricature when you’ve labeled many of those folks as ‘right wing extremists’ based on one or two topics. [/b]

    Uh-oh.

  120. entopticon

    pfft.. you are a hyper-partisan conservative now? Hey, whatever works for you, but I don’t really see any evidence of Ken being hyper-partisan either.

  121. entopticon

    “Uh-oh”

    Seriously, if you don’t think Dick Morris is a right-wing extremist wingnut, you haven’t been paying attention. I call it as I see it.

  122. Ken Hanke

    Ken and I like to Roll Play.

    I’m glad I’m going out of town in a couple hours. This can only get murkier.

  123. Piffy!

    but ken, just another 20-some posts and you can beat that barefoot thread like you want!

  124. Ken Hanke

    but ken, just another 20-some posts and you can beat that barefoot thread like you want!

    Alas, I am soon driving to Florida, so it’s gonna have to happen without me.

  125. Mister Blister

    Yeah I’m not seeing much facts from the Anti-Moore camp. I will agree that he is often sensationalist but it seems like the Anti-Moore camp is just spewing garbage they hear from Dim Beck and Rush “addict” Limpcow. If you want to have a debate you could start by addressing inaccuracies Moore might have made. Instead of having a debate it seems like more people are interested in having a pissing contest.

    I don’t see the problem with someone criticizing capitalism. Yes it is a great system, could it be made better. Probably.

    As far as the private school issue, so what? So many public schools are really terrible with underpaid and sometimes apathetic teachers. I had a terrible experience in this nation’s schools and would have loved to have the chance to have actually learned something.

  126. Piffy!

    I saw capitalism last night. Pretty much what i expected. Typical michael moore stuff, which is to say emotional charged, snarky, one-sided liberal propaganda. But, like his other films, it proves it’s point well, and although it may stretch some points, was not full of the ‘lies’ those from Drudge and Fox et al. have been claiming since before it was released.

    It’s a shame the critics can’t focus on the actual points moore makes, because there is a lot of room for criticism. Of course, that would require conceding the many valid points he makes, and they can’t have that, now, can they?

    Better to criticize it from afar, claiming it makes points it never actually does.

  127. JWTJr

    I have to agree that his content was better here than I’ve seen before. Banking and Insurance asked for the bully beatdown.

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