Breastfeeding moms and activists plan to converge on Denny’s restaurant off Patton Avenue in West Asheville on Sunday, Feb. 22, at 1 p.m. for a nurse-in.
The plan is to protest the incident that took place just over a week ago at the restaurant. Breastfeeding mom Crystal Everitt of Asheville says she was asked by the restaurant’s manager to cover herself or feed her 1-year-old son in the bathroom. Everitt says she declined and quoted the North Carolina law, which protects the rights of mothers to breastfeed in any public or private location.
Everitt said she thought the incident was over until she saw the female manager return with a police officer. Everitt says the policewoman told her she could be arrested for trespassing, so she, her husband and two young children left the restaurant.
North Carolina’s indecent exposure law states, “Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a woman may breast feed in any public or private location where she is otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of whether the nipple of the mother’s breast is uncovered during or incidental to the breast feeding.”
Everitt, 28, says if she receives an apology from Denny’s, she will meet with other nursing moms for a meal at the restaurant. If not, a breastfeeding rally will be held outside the restaurant.
“I told Denny’s this can be a nurse-in or a nurse-out. We’re happy to eat there and support them if they’ll apologize,” Everitt says. “Maybe this will show them that this matters to lots of people in their community.”
Everitt’s story has been heating up the message boards at a number of national breastfeeding and parenting sites, and some activists say they’re organizing nurse-ins at other Denny’s locations around the nation on the same day.
Between 20 and 40 moms who are members of the Asheville Mamas Yahoo group plan to attend. Everitt says a number of moms plan to drive to Asheville for the nurse-in, including a group from South Carolina.
Asheville mother Ami Abarbanel plans to attend with her 16-month-old nursing daughter.
“I plan to attend is to support another mother in exercising her right to feed her baby publicly, without having to ‘cover up,’” Abarbanel says. “I’ve learned ‘breast is best,’ and it is too often today that women are not educated enough both about the benefits of breastfeeding and their rights to nurse their babies.”
On the other hand, Asheville mom Lisa Marie Gittings says she won’t attend the nurse-in.
“There are too many questions as far as the reason for it and where/when/how, etc. My biggest reason is that nurse-ins are for education and not punishment,” Gittings says.
Gittings adds that a group of moms are planning a day of “awareness and promotion of breastfeeding” in March at Growing Young Café, that will address the discomfort local moms have had with the Denny’s publicity.
Denny’s has not yet returned messages seeking comment.
— Anne Fitten Glenn
132 thoughts on “Protesters plan to bring ‘breast is best’ message to Denny’s”
Just because she has a baby, doesn’t mean that she gets to display her goods to everyone when she wants. That’s what this boils down to. A little towel to cover up some is the social norm. She should apologize to Denny’s for wasting their time.
if you go request the waitress Robin.
Good Lord people! How have we forgotten that breasts are FOR feeding babies! This culture is so messed up! I’m sure “John” has no problem looking at women’s “goods” on magazine covers in the checkout line at the supermarket. Get real people…real men are in no way threatened by a breastfeeding mom and those that are just don’t like the reminder that breasts are not solely for their pleasure. I can’t imagine why a woman would have a problem with breastfeeding. Good luck with the nurse in! There needs to be some awareness and education here!
Denny’s should be targeted for refusing to abide by NC law in this matter. At the same time, I would hope that the moms are not being deliberately flamboyant in drawing attention to the nipple rather than the needs of the nursing babe.
Gawd, people, grow up! That’s what breasts are FOR!!! She shoulda shot the Denny’s manager in the eye with some milk. “oh, whoops” hahaha
I’m proud to say I whipped out my mammory glands and fed my babies wherever and whenever they were hungry!
I agree with travelah regarding Denny’s not following the law. As to the threat of arrest for trespassing, that could only happen if Denny’s had told her to leave the premises, and she had refused. I didn’t see that little detail mentioned. Merely breastfeeding a baby is not trespassing. Nor of course is it breaking any other law either, so it sounds like both the Denny’s manager and the police officer definitely acted improperly.
Perhaps if Denny’s could display their logo on the breasts in question, they would no longer be “offensive”?
Then its no different than a beer commercial.
Well John, if you got a problem, STOP STARING!! Baby needs to eat. Would you rather sit there stuffing greasy grandslams into your face while the baby screams because it’s hungry? Or have the mama do her duty and nourish her baby? How about we put a towel over your head, John? Power to the Mama!! God Save the queen!
There is also a law in NC that gives restaurants (all restaurants) the right to deny service to anyone for any reason.
So the minute they tell you to leave: you are then trespassing.
I hope DSS has lots of folks “on call” Sunday to take those babies into custody when the cows are arrested for refusal to leave the premises.
The parking lot is considered part of the premises – and if they are not on Denny’s property , and on City property (i.e. the sidewalk or roadway), then they are required BY LAW to have a permit to assemble (protest).
Who will feed those babies while mommy is in jail?
Personally I don’t mind a women breastfeeding in public, but I feel it is different in a restaurant. If the mother is covered up I am O.K. with it. On the other hand I do not want to see a woman’s breast being fed on while I am trying to eat. It comes down to personal acceptance and I think Denny’s was just trying to not upset their other customers for the sake of one. Any business can ask people to leave. It is their right. I used to work for a downtown jeweler that asked parents to remove their children for making any noise such as laughing or screaming, so this is not a shock to me.
There’s more to this than just breastfeeding. But…people like to make things black and white, and as cut-and-dry as possible so they can make an “example” out of something.
If it was nothing more than Denny’s refusing service because of breastfeeding, why are there so many mothers that breastfeed that don’t want to touch this with a ten foot pole? That should tell you something.
I breast fed both of my children until 10 months and I always made a point to cover up. I also had an experience simlar to this one but it was a customer not management at J&S;. I ignored her and continued to fed my child. However, after seeing this lady on the news and watching this one year jerk up her shirt suck a couple of times and then move on made me sick. At this age there is a time and place and a child should not have the right to chose when he wants to suck, give him a sippie cup. Was management wrong, i don’t think so, if this was an infant it would have been different.
Mama … I knew someone like you would respond. Is everyone else who responded that she was over the top wrong too? You seem to be in the minority.
Stacy … education of what your breasts look like isn’t really going to help anyone. Everyone knows what breastfeeding is and 99.9% of Women do it without causing this stir. This girl created this scene on purpose.
It would be hard to imagine that someone would start feeding her child in a restaurant with the purpose of “creating a scene”…I suppose it’s possible but highly unlikely. And 99.9% of women do NOT breastfeed and I have to imagine it’s because of the ignorance of people like you, John, which there are many. You knew “someone like me” would respond…hmmm, I guess I am just insane to think that maybe our cultural views about children, mothers and breasts are messed up. I’ve seen more of most teen idols breasts than I have ever seen of a breastfeeding moms.
Even though it’s not anything that would alarm me it’s not something I’d like to see while I’m eating either. Although natural I think most people would feel uncomfortable with thier families, especially children, being exposed to this in a public setting. It may not be against the law but something where a little discretion could be used, usually a towell or baby blanket. All of us will never agree on this but what I personally don’t like when others try to force thier views on me or others nor do I like a company to be black-mailed or black-balled. Go elsewhere where it’s not an issue. Where will you show up next a 5th. grade classroom?
Stacy – lots of people enjoy making scenes. Young girls especially. I don’t think she went to Denny’s with the intent of creating a scene, but she was obviously game when the opportunity arose.
Don’t get me wrong, I have huge respect for motherhood and breastfeeding kids. However, 99.9% of breast feeding mothers seem to be able to do it without creating this kind of stir.
This is all so unintelligent. Does any one (not hippies or any other social group that that has to constantly bring attention to themselves) really care about this?
I am In total support of the Mom. Denny’s has shown to be a prejudicial backward place. This culture does need to realize breasts are for feeding children….just like denny’s is for feeding. I would much rather see her feeding a child as to see someone chewing with their mouth open or snarfing down bisquits and gravy.
I think this is going to be another public relations nightmare for Denny’s not unlike what they went through in the 1990’s with a number of racial discrimination charges and lawsuits. That cost them a lot of money as well as causing them to lose credibility as a business that follows the law and treats all customers with respect and dignity.
The breastfeeding mother clearly had a right to be in the restaurant, as she was not denied entrance, and she clearly had a right to breastfeed her baby while there under North Carolina law, regardless of whatever nipple or breast exposure there might have been.
The question is, seems to me, since her breastfeeding in a public or private place is protected by the law, how is it that Denny’s has the right to eject her from the premises for no other reason than her exercising her rights? That really makes no sense at all. If they can do that, then the breastfeeding rights law means nothing. Why even have such a law if businesses are going to ignore it with impunity? IANAL, but I can see the potential for a huge lawsuit with Denny’s coming out the loser – once again.
People who cannot get over the puritanical notion that breasts are only sexual objects and therefore should always and forever be hidden from view, even when used for their natural purpose, are the ones who caused the Denny’s problem, not the nursing mother, who was only doing what she was supposed to do to properly nourish her baby and what she had a right to do.
What I think the problem is with most people who complain about this, is not some glimpse a some small portion of a human breast, something most people see everyday anyway, but just the idea of what the breast is being used for at that moment. The fact that it’s being used for its natural purpose, that is to nourish an infant, is somehow more disturbing to a few people than the breast’s more common purpose nowadays of being a blatant sexual object. If anything, it seems like a more appropriate reaction in people should be a feeling of happiness and joy at the sight of a young mother and child doing what young mothers and their infants have done since the beginning of time. An opposite reaction from anyone is really inappropriate and certainly disrespectful to the nursing mother.
Wouldn’t it be better for all parties concerned to boycott Denny’s, hitting them where it really hurts (the pocket)instead of staging a protest where everyone would be handing over money (they certainly won’t allow non-paying customers to stay)to the very place that offended them???
I’m all for this. However, I feel that this protest might have a negative effect… much like when Critical Mass clogs up the streets during rush hour traffic. You are going to piss off the wrong people.
In these economic times, the best way to protest Denny’s is don’t eat there. She’s gotten a ton of press off of this and use that to gather other parents, start a petition and send it to corporate. Like Kriss said, they are still stinging from the past and should make changes to avoid more egg in the face.
education of what your breasts look like isn’t really going to help anyone.
Speak for yourself.
The story here is that Denny’s was loosing customers right then because of this girl. Watch the interviews on WLOS. If you are the one causing multiple parties to get up and leave a restaurant, you are doing it over the top. This isn’t about breast feeding in public.
Yes, the interview also said the complaining customers were part of the “after-church brunch group.” That in itself speaks volumes as to the intolerance of others. I wonder if on any other day there would have been no issue at all. Supposedly some 13 people – presumably from this church group – complained or walked out, resulting in 5 other people being asked to leave (the breastfeeding mom and her family). It sounds like Denny’s just did the math, and decided to evict the ones that had a right to be there and were hurting absolutely no one, instead of standing up for what was right and telling the complaining busybodies that there was nothing they could do and there was no reason for them to say a word to the breastfeeding mom and her family.
So they might have lost a few narrow-minded intolerant folks who think their “standards” must be imposed on everyone else, but standing up for what was right and for the rights of others under the law would have been the honorable thing for Denny’s to do – and in the long run, may indeed have been the best thing for the bottom line as well as reputation of the company.
May we see some photos of the offending breasts please?
Breast feeding is natual…but so is urinating, and I do that in the bathroom. I’m not saying breast feeding is comparable to urinating, but is there not a time and place for everything? I find it funny “the after church bunch” complains about everything.
Any guys wanting to check out boobs…meet my at denny’s on sunday
Here’s a question. Was her breast fully exposed for a long period of time and/or repeatedly? Or did she attempt to do be as discreet as possible?
“Here’s a question. Was her breast fully exposed for a long period of time and/or repeatedly? Or did she attempt to do be as discreet as possible?”
I’m not sure the answer to that is really relevant. According to the story, she was asked to “cover herself.” So that does not sound like she was being “as discreet as possible.” But so what? North Carolina law does not say that a breastfeeding mother in public must be “as discreet as possible.” On the contrary, it gives her the specific right to breastfeed in a public or private place with the nipple (and obviously other parts of the breast) being clearly visible.
So by making an issue of this, Denny’s has not followed the law. See http://tinyurl.com/DennysBreastfeeding
And I would bet that each and every one of those 13 or so after-church diners who complained or walked out, if asked, would claim to be law-abiding citizens. Yet they not only ignored the law, they probably weren’t even aware of a mother’s right in this state to breastfeed in a public place without harassment. That’s something that should have been clearly explained to them by Denny’s personnel.
And is that the way so-called Christians are supposed to act toward a fellow human being? What the mother was doing was doing no harm to anyone whatsoever, so it should have been of no concern to anyone.
People should be able to live their lives any way they want – as long as they’re not breaking any laws or doing harm to anyone else. So a person does not believe it is right – for whatever reason – to breastfeed in a public place? Then all that person has to do is follow his/her own beliefs and not breastfeed in a public place. What others choose to do is none of their business. Why must certain people try to impose their own “standards” or belief systems on others?
Kriss … I’ll rearrange your last question and make it more applicable to this discussion … Why should one young mother be allowed to empty out a restaurant just because she refuses to be discreet the way almost all other mothers that breast feed do? Her refusal to be discreet is the ENTIRE issue here. Not public breast feeding.
As Spock would say, “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few … or the one.”
alllriight! I personally plan on attending this wonderful protest, and encourage many more. I will be the thirty year-old feeding on my thirty-three year old “mom”. Giggity giggity
I also plan on documenting this beautiful experience for all would-be-mom’s on u-tube. Cha-ching!
Take a poll
Does the after church bunch breast feed their kids or feed them formula??
I liked Kriss’s blog, very to the point I thought. Denny’s seems to cater to the after church bunch….mostly white ones. It has hurt them in the past. I for one will not eat there.
Well put, John.
Yes, a mother has a right to breastfeed in public. At the same time, a business’s property is not public property, and a business has a right to conduct business. One person’s rights stop where another’s start. This woman was causing the resteraunt to lose business. It would be the same thing if a bunch of college kids or high schoolers came in and were loud and obnoxious to the point of driving off multiple paying customers.
The woman was asked to take it down a notch. She refused. She wasn’t on public property.
Kriss: yes, there were church-going people there. IT WAS SUNDAY DURING LUNCH HOUR. You were expecting…what, a satanist convention? Some people would be amazed how far a little common sense goes, when applied.
And is that the way so-called Christians are supposed to act toward a fellow human being? What the mother was doing was doing no harm to anyone whatsoever, so it should have been of no concern to anyone.
Asking someone not to expose themselves at a restaurant is not un-Christian.
Good Lord, you’re acting like they made her go to the back of the bus.
Dude! So funny about the back of the bus! She compared herself to Rosa Parks on one thread! And even admitted looking for it.
Here is the looking for trouble link someone on Topix posted: http://tinyurl.com/looking-for-it
Here is the Rosa Parks Link: http://tinyurl.com/Rosa-Parks-wannabe
She is “ButterflyBabies” so you know who to look for.
denny’s is nasty. they should’ve gone to waffle house.
Some Waffle House ‘Smothered and Covered” would have solved the problem.
Dude … I was giving her the benefit of the doubt on her instigating this. I was obviously wrong. She appears to have created this drama on purpose by intentionally over exposing herself.
John wrote, “… Why should one young mother be allowed to empty out a restaurant just because she refuses to be discreet the way almost all other mothers that breast feed do?…”
John, the young mother in question did not “empty out” a restaurant. The regional manager said only that diners at one table left the restaurant. How many would that be? Maybe 4, or 6 at most? That’s a drop in the bucket compared to the total of people that were probably there that day. Not only that, the young mother had no control of what those people chose to do. No one told them they had to leave; they made their own free will decision to do so. They had a right to leave if they wanted to, just like the young mother had a right to be there and a right to breastfeed her child while there. She did nothing wrong.
“…Her refusal to be discreet is the ENTIRE issue here…”
I disagree. The issue here is a few busybodies not minding their own business in regard to a young mother breastfeeding her baby in public as she has a perfect right to do under the law, and with restaurant personnel who were obviously ignorant of the law as well as very insensitive and disrespectful to one of their customers. They could easily have explained to the complainers that the mother had a right to be there and a right to breastfeed her baby while there.
Bobaloo wrote: “Asking someone not to expose themselves at a restaurant is not un-Christian.”
Maybe you know more about what is Christian or un-Christian than I do, but I was always taught the concept of, “Judge not, that ye be not judged,” as being the right way to live.
Besides, breastfeeding is not “exposing” oneself. There’s a big difference, and that difference is clearly stated in North Carolina law.
“Good Lord, you’re acting like they made her go to the back of the bus.”
No, but I don’t see a lot of difference in that and trying to force her to go into the restroom in order to breastfeed her child.
“The issue here is a few busybodies not minding their own business in regard to a young mother breastfeeding her baby in public….”
One: Those other customers had just as much right to be there as this woman did.
Two: Once you step off the sidewalk into the parking lot, you’re not on public property.
Three: Denny’s called the police to find out what the law said. Once you call them, they’re going to show up. It’s standard procedure. Further, when the police asked if they wanted to do a tresspassing charge, Denny’s said no.
I can legally walk around town in nothing but a thong if I so choose. If a few “busybodies” take issue, does that mean I should organize a “thong-in” at Pritchard Park?
A clue: no.
If I go looking for trouble (as this woman did and admitted it), I’m going to find it. If this woman didn’t get a rise out of Denny’s, she would have found somewhere that did…and the nurse-in would be at a different location.
I hope the mamas win this one, although I suspect this incident had little to do with the act of breast-feeding and more to do with sex.
Some women (not Crystal) love to draw attention to their breasts. While legal, that behavior *is* offensive – especially to the insecure female members of the “church crowd”, who suffer in their own way despite their perceived air of moral superiority.
I won’t shed any tears however for poor Denny who may have been hurt (in the wallet), nor for any other patrons who got upset over seeing bodily fluids flowing in their dining room.
Cheshire wrote: “One: Those other customers had just as much right to be there as this woman did.”
Yes, of course they did. So what is your point here?
“Two: Once you step off the sidewalk into the parking lot, you’re not on public property.”
Yes, that’s correct. So I’m assuming your point is that there’s something different about the rights of a breastfeeding mother on private property as opposed to public property. Not so. Read the law, which I won’t repeat here because it’s been quoted several times above.
“Three: Denny’s called the police to find out what the law said.”
Yes. And that is a shame because that is something Denny’s personnel SHOULD HAVE KNOWN all along. Just shows how they are sorely lacking in training in the basic knowledge and requirements of how customers are to be treated that one would expect someone in business, especially a restaurant business, to be well aware of.
“…Further, when the police asked if they wanted to do a tresspassing charge, Denny’s said no.”
Of course they said “no,” because there were no grounds for a trespassing charge since the mother did not refuse to leave when told.
“I can legally walk around town in nothing but a thong if I so choose. If a few ‘busybodies’ take issue, does that mean I should organize a ‘thong-in’ at Pritchard Park?”
Whether you should or shouldn’t is not for me to say. That would be up to you if you wanted to, as you would definitely have the right to do it if you so chose. However, your analogy is somewhat flawed. To be closer to the Denny’s situation, you should have also mentioned that someone who has authority or control over Pritchard Park told you that you had to cover up or leave because other people were complaining, while you knew you clearly had a right to be there and be dressed as you were dressed, which was doing no harm to any other person in the park.
“If I go looking for trouble (as this woman did and admitted it), I’m going to find it. If this woman didn’t get a rise out of Denny’s, she would have found somewhere that did…and the nurse-in would be at a different location.”
You know, whether she purposely chose to breastfeed in public at that particularly location at that particular time in order to make a statement about how breastfeeding mothers are continually being discriminated against, in spite of North Carolina law clearly making it illegal to be treated that way, is really irrelevant. What difference does it make as to what her intent might have been? That changes nothing. The facts are the facts. She was breastfeeding her child in public at a private business, something she had a right to do. If some other people didn’t like it, that was their own personal problem, not hers. If Denny’s had done the right thing, there would have been no issue. When you go out in public, you can’t expect to always see things that are perfectly pleasing to your own sensibilities and standards that you might have set for your own life.
Oh Chops, that was stupid. There is nothing sexually repressed about Christian men and women …… now, get back on topic.
I wish I was gonna be in town this sunday. Mardi Gras & NOLA and all…
But I’m sending solidarity and friends your way, Crystal. You have every right to feed your child without shame or censure.
Stand tall, stand strong, and keep standing up for yourself and others…. If you don’t stand up for your rights no one else will.
Hit Denny’s where it hurts.
And remember, this is a powerful example of the power that we, the people, still wield over the ever-growing Corporatocracy.
I wish you could post pics here like you can in the forums, but here’s a link. Couldn’t help but think of this poster…
This makes me think of the “christians” with the offensive poster at Bele Chere last yr.
I guess it is to each his own….I am not offended by breast feeding but very offended by graphic public displays of gore. I don’t know where the line should be drawn but my reaction to the gore exposers was to steer my family away. They were equally disgusted. So that being said, the people offended had every right to get up and leave, but just like the police who were allowing the rights of the gore exposers, the restauarant should have defended the right of the breastfeeder
Maybe you know more about what is Christian or un-Christian than I do, but I was always taught the concept of, “Judge not, that ye be not judged,” as being the right way to live.
Besides, breastfeeding is not “exposing” oneself. There’s a big difference, and that difference is clearly stated in North Carolina law.
Nobody judged her. And this really has nothing to do with Christianity. They just wanted her to be discreet.
They asked her to cover up, she refused. They didn’t tell her to stop.
I understand and support her right to do this wherever necessary, but I also recognize other people’s requests that she be discreet. That’s it.
No, but I don’t see a lot of difference in that and trying to force her to go into the restroom in order to breastfeed her child.
The oppression African Americans suffered at the hands of segregationists is no way equal to this woman’s public breastfeeding struggle. The fact that you’re seriously equating the two is absolutely mind boggling.
Again, they initially asked her to simply cover up. She refused. Why is that?
In any case, I know where I’m going Sunday for breakfast. Should be a good show.
Correct that breast feeding isn’t the same as exposing oneself. That’s why millions of babies are breast fed in public every day with no issues. However, when you expose yourself in the guise of breast feeding, you deserve the push back that will come your way.
Bobaloo wrote: “The oppression African Americans suffered at the hands of segregationists is no way equal to this woman’s public breastfeeding struggle. The fact that you’re seriously equating the two is absolutely mind boggling.”
Are you kidding? It was YOU that brought up the civil rights reference with your “made her go to the back of the bus” comment, not me. I just responded to what you said. I think it would be best to stick to the current facts of this topic instead of attempting to throw in some hot-button red herring.
This is so familiar to the protest on facebook when mothers got upset by facebook removing pictures that obviously did not meet with their terms of service. Facebook’s terms were right and they had every right to remove the pictures. Resturants have the right to refuse service to anyone. Everyone wants to scream about the law giving her the right to breastfeed in public, but push this law aside because it doesn’t suit you. This lady was creating a distrubance and upsetting other customers therefore causing a loss of business.
There are lots of things that are natural in this world that we are required to do behind closed doors. Am I allowed to piss in the floor at dennys…pee is natural. Can I have sex in front of everyone at denny’s – No.
Breastfeeding is a natural wonderful thing, but respect needs to be shown to others. All this lady had to do was be a little bit more discreet about it or feed her 1yr???? child before going to the resturant. Point blank this woman was just trying to create a problem. I would have done exactly what the manager did. I praise him/her for it. I would have left it alone until a customer complainted, then would have asked her to cover up or leave. I do not think Denny’s owes any of you anything…no apology…no anything…i hope if this protest begins they lock everyone of the mothers up for distrubing the peace. Better have a permit and not be on Denny’s property…it is a private business.
Its like woman believe because they had a child and have the ability to feed this child through their breasts that we all have to be subjected to it.
Now let me disspell it before its said…”because its not being used seen as a sexual thing its wrong” that argument is full of bull. People just don’t want to eat and see that. Some families don’t expose their children to this and do not want you to expose them to it.
I don’t want to be eating watching a 1yr old child suck on his mom’s tit. I have no problem with the human body or its natural processes, but we do live in a civilized world. We are not cave people. We know how to be respectful of others.
I’m sure all of you will have plenty to say in rebuttal to this, but not necessary. I have read all comments on 3 sites regarding this. A lot of people have a similar view on this.
Bobaloo wrote: “Again, they initially asked her to simply cover up. She refused. Why is that?”
Why did she refuse to cover up? I would assume it was a matter of principle. She was doing nothing wrong. She was not breaking any laws, and in fact had an explicit right under the law to breastfeed without “covering up.” There was no reason to cover up. Why should a few church people who were there at the time and felt they had the right to control other people around them just to suit their own likes or dislikes be able to dictate in what manner the mother could breastfeed her own child? It was none of their business whatsoever.
It would be no different if you, say, liked to be different from the norm and had an unusual hair color, such as green perhaps, and go into a restaurant. And someone is there who just hates to see people with weird hair – or anything out of the ordinary in regard to appearance or attire. And they complain about you to management saying if you don’t cover it up with a hat or something, they will walk out. Should management tell you to cover it up? And if so, should you comply, just so that person won’t be offended by having to look at your hair while they eat?
Sure, there’s always a consideration for others factor. But that works both ways. A complaining customer who feels he or she is “offended” by something is not always in the right. And a wise business manager will recognize that.
Come on now Kriss While I respect your opinion…comparing hair to brestfeeding???? a hair color vs. letting a 1yr child hang off your breast in a resturant is two totally different things…
“Why should a few church people who were there at the time and felt they had the right to control other people around them just to suit their own likes or dislikes be able to dictate in what manner the mother could breastfeed her own child? It was none of their business whatsoever.”
Obviously you hold a strong dislike and contempt for christians. It kinda makes your discrimination arguments seem two-faced. Just sayin’.
As to nit-picking my analogy…come on. Seriously? I made up the analogy assuming I didn’t have to spell out every blessed little thing. Silly me.
Cheshire, I guess by my making a point of mentioning that those who were complaining about the breastfeeding mother were part of an after-church group (as per the news stories), you conclude that I dislike Christians. Nothing could be further from the truth. Note I did ask in one post if this was the way Christians are supposed to act. What I don’t care for are people who go to church and would claim to be Christians but who live their lives judging others and condemning others who may not quite measure up to their rigid standards or share the exact same beliefs or lifestyle as they do, instead of having compassion, understanding, tolerance, and love for their fellow human beings. I find it difficult to believe that true Christians would have shown such disdain and disrespect for the young mother at Denny’s who was doing neither them nor anyone else any harm and was using her breasts for the purpose that God intended. A woman should have no shame in that, yet those people – those church-goers – tried to make her feel ashamed by their judgmental attitudes and actions. I think what they did was wrong and was not something that true Christians would do.
Wait a minute.
How is the fact that people still eat Denny’s “food” not a bigger issue here?
Talk about “indecent”.
The ragtags never miss an opportunity to smear their anti-Christian poo even in a discussion about Denny’s and breastfeeding.
Just curious, travelah, where has anybody “smear[ed] their anti-Christian poo” in this discussion? I looked through all the comments, and even though there are some references to Christians, I did not see anything that could be so characterized as you described.
Kriss … you, for starters, Chops before you.
Stick to the issue which is Denny’s and breastfeeding.
It is simply amazing that right-wing extremists are so perversely sick in the head that they find a woman’s breast offensive.
There is absolutely nothing offensive about a woman’s breast, or breast feeding. The people talking about discretion, as if there was something wrong with it in the first place, are being ridiculous. Get over it. Find a good shrink for your Freudian issues and stop taking them out on the rest of us.
The only harm comes from the extremist nut-jobs who stigmatize something perfectly natural. By the way, one serving of infant formula has more hormones in it than a birth control pill.
I hope this demonstration reverberates nationally. I hope it becomes Denny’s version of the McLibel suit. It’s a good opportunity to bring attention to the insanely twisted and harmful neo-Puritanism of the far right.
If Denny’s does not apologize, I plan to never eat there again, and I will do everything that I can to encourage as many people as possible to do the same.
“I don’t want to be eating watching a 1yr old child suck on his mom’s tit.”
Don’t watch. The only boobs on this thread are the ones taking offense here under the BS mantle of ‘discretion’, because they’re the ones with a warped, sexualized view of women breastfeeding children.
Travelah, who the people are that complained at Denny’s is an intrinsic part of this “issue.” They were referred to as an “after-church” group by the media, so referring to them in the discussion is indeed “stick[ing] to the issue.”
It would appear, based on your remarks, that you see a church-goer and a Christian as one and the same. However, anyone who goes to church is not necessarily a true Christian, in my opinion, and I’ve tried to keep that concept very clear in my comments. I do not believe a true Christian would have behaved in the manner that those people at Denny’s did toward the young mother. You may feel differently, and obviously you have a right to your opinion.
I was raised in a Christian home. My mother was indeed a devout and true Christian who took us to church every Sunday where she was also the organist. She is not alive today, but knowing her and how she lived her life, with respect and tolerance for others, I know for a fact that had she been in Denny’s at the time of the breastfeeding incident, there is no way she would have ever said anything to the young mother or to Denny’s personnel, or would have walked out.
I’m am far more shocked that anyone would put Denny’s “food” into their body than anything else.
Nick wrote: “Come on now Kriss While I respect your opinion…comparing hair to brestfeeding???? a hair color vs. letting a 1yr child hang off your breast in a resturant is two totally different things…”
Nick, you are right. They are different things, because breastfeeding in a restaurant is explicitly protected by a law allowing it in a public or private place. Having green hair isn’t.
But my analogy was really based only on how one might respond if another customer doesn’t like something about you, not whether you have a legal right to whatever you may be doing or whatever your appearance might be.
entopticon wrote “…If Denny’s does not apologize, I plan to never eat there again, and I will do everything that I can to encourage as many people as possible to do the same.”
I would be very surprised if Denny’s does not apologize for this incident. As I mentioned earlier, it has to be a public relations nightmare for them – that on top of all the other discrimination issues they’ve had to deal with in the recent past. They were clearly in the wrong by ignoring the law and the rights of this woman. The fact that they apparently weren’t even aware of the law is just appalling. I’m sure top management is currently struggling to try to figure out a way to get out of this mess and save as much face as possible.
I love the ‘its natural’ argument. Its so precise and to the point.
Here are a list of things that are natural: Cyanide, Arsenic, Cancer, Gamma Rays, Drought, Famine, CO2, SO4, NH3, Coal, Oil, Body Hair, Nail Clippings, Plaque, The Flu, the list goes on forever.
I want none of those “natural” things near me when I’m eating. If that’s the best argument you have, you are missing the whole point.
She over exposed herself on purpose to cause this scene. She said she was looking for this fight and created the scenario to have it. This was a manufactured event.
Kriss – Yes there are laws on the book that allow public breastfeeding, but there is also a law that gives resturants the right to refuse service. Its amazing how that is overlooked. I do not look at breasts as a sexual object. So that is not the issue…that because a child is breastfeeding its offensive. I have absolutely no problem with a mother sitting in a park breastfeeding or any other public place with the acception of a resturant. And if it is done in a resturant then it needs to be covered. I do not want to see a child feeding, throwing up on the mother, burping, etc. I guess my point is although it is a natural process there needs to be discretion. Just because people are allowed to do certain things by law doesn’t make them right. For instance, I’m allowed to curse. (freedom of speech) so would it be right for me to go into Denny’s sit down and spew nasty language. Would that not distrub other people? Would I not be asked to leave? I know that I can go on the sidewalk and do it legally, but the restaurant will not allow me to distrub others..
I’ve been in direct customer service for 14yrs. I have never had a customer complain about someone’s hairstyle.
Honestly I do not think it will hurt Denny’s at all. Most of the customers are there for the cheap food and the hours they keep, not human rights issues. I doubt most of them care about breastfeeding or a woman’s right to do so in public. People will still go there. I think most of the Denny’s customers would think it was ridiculous to cause such a stink about it in the first place. Put some breast milk in a bottle for when you go to a restaurant..that is what my sister did. It takes a little extra effort to do this for the sake of others. Do you really need to breastfeed a child over a few months old? 18+ months just seems strange to me. My nephew was given formula instead of breast milk, as his sister was, and he has always been healthier and more energetic. She has always had health issues such as allergies and thyroid problems. I am a skeptic when it comes to the benefits of breastfeeding, despite what the studies say. If the mother has health issues of any kind…the breast milk will most likely reflect that.
I believe the young lady owes Denny’s apology. The issue here is not whether she could feed her baby which of course she can, but do it with some tact! Remember there are other guest EATING there as well, and you have to remember their needs as well as your own. He asked her to cover herself. I don’t think that is an unreasonalbe request in a resturant where people are trying to eat and enjoy themselves as well. If another guest complained then what’s he to do ignore them?
Boobs sure do ruin an appetite, dont they, hs?
“If another guest complained then what’s he to do ignore them?”
She was not breaking any law. In fact, she was well within her rights. I would think respect for the law would be an important concept to you people. Just because one person complained does not mean the rest of the world should bend to their minority claim.
“”My nephew was given formula instead of breast milk, as his sister was, and he has always been healthier and more energetic… I am a skeptic when it comes to the benefits of breastfeeding, despite what the studies say.””
My Goodness, that is a hilarious statement.
Here in the mountains, we know that breast milk is as perfect as God made it–and that “formula” is not of God’s design.
Well then John, I challenge you to a duel…. I will look at a breast while you drink cyanide. Whoever lasts the longest wins.
To John, Who Cares, and HS – Way to go…agree in full….
The PFKab, more than one person complained. More than 2 people complained. How many complaints does it take before management should do something. I guess all of you would have let the resturant empty out before doing your job and protecting the company revenue from one person that wanted to cause a scene.
John wrote: “I love the ‘its natural’ argument. Its so precise and to the point.
Here are a list of things that are natural: Cyanide, Arsenic, Cancer, Gamma Rays, Drought, Famine, CO2, SO4, NH3, Coal, Oil, Body Hair, Nail Clippings, Plaque, The Flu, the list goes on forever…”
John, you are right about those things being natural. The fact is, everything on earth is natural – all the things you mentioned plus all the good, desirable, and beautiful things in the world as well, including a mother breastfeeding her child.
Nick wrote: “Yes there are laws on the book that allow public breastfeeding, but there is also a law that gives resturants the right to refuse service. Its amazing how that is overlooked…”
Maybe it’s overlooked because there’s no such law. If you’re convinced there is, then maybe you could cite a statutory reference that explicitly states that restaurants have right to refuse service to anyone. That’s not saying that restaurants do not have such a right under certain conditions. But you said there’s a “law,” and I’d just like to read that “law” if you’d tell me what law that is.
Quite often people are quick to point out that there’s some law about this or about that, but sometimes it turns out to be something they only heard somewhere with no real basis in fact.
And btw, they did in fact refuse service to the breastfeeding mother when she refused to stop doing what she had a right to do – and there IS a law giving her that right.
WhoCares wrote: “Honestly I do not think it will hurt Denny’s at all. Most of the customers are there for the cheap food and the hours they keep, not human rights issues. I doubt most of them care about breastfeeding or a woman’s right to do so in public. People will still go there. I think most of the Denny’s customers would think it was ridiculous to cause such a stink about it in the first place…”
You are absolutely right that most of Denny’s customers couldn’t care less about whether somebody is breastfeeding in the restaurant or not. But still, I don’t think Denny’s really wants their reputation being further sullied by allegations of discrimination, regardless of the type of discrimination it might be.
“…Do you really need to breastfeed a child over a few months old?…My nephew was given formula…”
As to your feelings in regard to breastfeeding a child over some arbitrary age limit or the value of breast milk in general, you certainly have a right to your opinion, but I don’t see how all this really matters here in this situation. It was what it was, and Denny’s actions were inappropriate.
hs wrote: .”..If another guest complained then what’s he to do ignore them?”
Why should one guest’s likes or dislikes take priority over another guest’s likes or dislikes? When a manager receives a complaint from a customer related to the appearance or behavior of another customer, hopefully he or she has the knowledge and wisdom to recognize the rights of each person involved – not just the complainer.
Anyone out in public sooner or later is likely to see something he or she would rather not see. That’s just life. Nobody has a right to not be offended.
Mom, I breastfed my child and I embrace womanhood, motherhood and nudity. HOWEVER, it took me some time to discover that there are a lot of very CREEPY people out there who do not differentiate between a naked nursing breast and a naked breast. To believe so is naive and, unfortunately, somewhat dangerous. You don’t want to learn this lesson the hard way after some creepazoid follows you into the parking lot and exposes HIMSELF-or worse- to you and your vulnerable child. Cover up, respect your child, yourself, and accept that others just aren’t as cool as you are.
It’s a well-established fact that right wing extremists’ heads have been known to explode at the sight of a breast, so clearly this woman was some kind of liberal, pinko terrorist who is out to destroy America.
When John Ashcroft had the exposed breast on the Spirit of Justice statue covered up, he was simply protecting America from the pornographic artsy-fartsy liberals who make statues with the nefarious intent of blowing up the heads of right wing extremists.
Just think of all the right wing extremist heads that wouldn’t have been saved from exploding if it wasn’t for courageous patriots like John Ashcroft and the manager from Denny’s. Another minute or two and that Denny’s would have looked like a scene out of Scanners.
Everybody knows that the danger of right wing extremists’ heads exploding when they are exposed to a female breast is very real. It happens sometimes, people just explode. Natural causes. That’s why patriots like John equate breast feeding in public with things like cancer, cyanide, and gamma rays.
The cold reality is, our nation won’t be safe until Jack Bauer is on the case with a tank full of baby formula and a truckload of burkas.
Making this particular event a right vs left thing is a diversion from the real issue. Its not about breast feeding, its about normal behavior vs attention getting.
Look at the ACT story today and count the comments who do and don’t support the nurse in.
The “cold reality” is that we live in a culture where breasts are not seen as mammary glands, they are seen as sexual objects. There is alot of money in the business of showing naked breasts, and there are alot of creeps out there who have no propriety, no respect, and not alot of concern for moms and their children. A naked breast is a reason to jack off for most guys. Exposing your naked breasts in front of people you don’t know is an open invitation for alot of really bad s**t from the weirdos out there. I can’t understand how a mom feels it is more important to expose herself – literally- and her child to potential danger just so she can make a point. Just cover it up with a soft blanket. Wise realism is safer than naive idealism.
The “cold reality” is that we live in a culture where breasts are not seen as mammary glands, they are seen as sexual objects. There is alot of money in the business of showing naked breasts, and there are alot of creeps out there who have no propriety, no respect, and not alot of concern for moms and their children. A naked breast is a reason to jakc off for many guys. Exposing your naked breasts in front of people you don’t know is an open invitation for alot of really bad s**t from the weirdos out there. I can’t understand how a mom feels it is more important to expose herself – literally- and her child to potential danger just so she can make a point. Just cover it up with a soft blanket. Wise realism is safer than naive idealism.
LOL… I guess we will see for certain if Eric Holder decides to cover up the breasts on the Spirit of Justice statue like Ashcroft did.
The really funny thing is, it is hard to even imagine anybody but a right wing extremist who thinks breast feeding isn’t “normal behavior.”
Of course, most right wing extremists don’t actually think of themselves as right wing extremists. The Taliban still think they are the good guys when they stone a woman for exposing her knees. Perhaps this can be a useful tool for right wing extremists. As a rule of thumb, if you take issue with seeing a woman’s breast, you are a right wing extremist, or at very least, on that issue you certainly are.
If seeing a woman’s breast puts you off your appetite, it is your problem, not hers. If you are that far gone, the only thing that can help you is a few solid years of Freudian psychotherapy.
I’ve already started the contest to decisively prove who is right once and for all… I’ve looked at breasts today. No bad side effects so far. Have you had your cyanide yet? Last man standing wins. Best of luck to you.
Loryloo said: “Exposing your naked breasts in front of people you don’t know is an open invitation for alot of really bad s**t from the weirdos out there.”
That is one of the most twisted arguments that I have ever witnessed here. Public breast feeding is sure as heck not an invitation to be raped. Your argument is just as reprehensible as the shameful tactic of saying that a woman was asking to be raped if she was wearing a short skirt.
Countless rapists have gone free because of that disgraceful reasoning, and if people listened to your twisted logic, blaming the victim for inviting attack, rapists would go free for that too.
A man doesn’t need a naked breast to jack off. All it takes is for a woman to be attractive. By your reasoning, any woman who takes steps to look attractive is inviting rape.
Wearing a short skirt DOES NOT invite rape. Wearing lipstick DOES NOT invite rape. Breast feeding in public DOES NOT invite rape. Women have the right to breast feed in public. If they want to cover up with a blanket fine. If not, fine. Ironically, it is the perverse taboos that cause the problem in the first place.
Well said, entopticon.
In this country and in our society, it is outrageous to imply that it should be the responsibility of women to keep these types of people in check by not dressing or acting in certain ways so as not to provoke some unwanted male reaction. Women are not required to wear burqas in our society, nor should they ever be afraid to act or look like normal women doing normal female things – such as breastfeeding – while out in public.
Entopticon – Your denial of bad people out there is a bit naive. Over exposing yourself to that type of creep is much, much more risky than being discreet like most breast feeding mothers do every day all over the US. Especially in a low end restaurant like Denny’s.
Would you risk your heath/safety and that of your child like that just to make your point? Just because you don’t want them (the creeps out there) to exist doesn’t mean they don’t.
No one here is saying public breast feeding is the issue. You keep going back to that. Social norms are the issue here. Buck them and there can be nasty consequences.
John, I most certainly do not deny there are bad people. You are here, aren’t you? ;^)
No, I would never tell my daughter that if she breast feeds in public she is inviting rape. I would tell her that anyone who argues such an despicable, twisted point is in serious need of mental help.
Social norms? That’s absolutely ridiculous. The law of the state of North Carolina says that it is perfectly acceptable, and in fact protected by law. Only for an extremely warped individual is a woman’s bare breast offensive, and certainly no one should cater to their depraved mental illness.
Any legitimacy given to the disgraceful concept that a woman who breast feeds in public is asking to be raped is absolutely shameful.
“John” said:”Look at the ACT story today and count the comments who do and don’t support the nurse in. ”
Right. And 9 out of 10 of those are from the same person posting under different names, much like “Nick” and “john” in this thread.
If we are both dining at Denny’s, and I complain that you are ugly, should Denny’s remove you to “maintain business”? No, because that isnt breaking the law. Just like breastfeeding in public isnt breaking the law. I would think someone like yourself would have more respect for the law.
A nincompoop might not realize that both right leaning and left leaning mommies have babies and teats and what the issue has to do with rape is beyond any sane rationale.
I don’t doubt your expertise on the motivations of nincompoops travelah. I also don’t doubt your keen insights into those who are beyond any sane rationale.
Now, from the non-nincompoop, sane point of view, it is true that right leaning and left leaning mothers both have babies and breasts (usually the term used for humans). It is also true that it is by and large, if not exclusively, right-leaning extremists who actually take offense at the sight of a woman’s breast. It is not exactly a coincidence that it was John Ashcroft who had the Spirit of Justice statue covered up.
I have certainly heard plenty of right wing extremists complain about breast feeding in public, but it is hard to even imagine a liberal person actually complaining about a woman breast feeding.
Ent – Call me bad huh? Did you major in personal attacks when you got your fancy ivy league education? Debate certainly wasn’t in your curriculum. Maybe you dropped that class because it was too hard?
You don’t seem to be able to differentiate – surely they taught you that word – between normal public breast feeding and the attention getting she admitted she was going for. You are being duped by her and can’t even see it.
PK’s conspiracy theories are nothing new.
“I don’t doubt your expertise on the motivations of nincompoops travelah. I also don’t doubt your keen insights into those who are beyond any sane rationale.”
I can say I have to agree with the manager at Denny’s I don’t want to see This ladys chest while I am eating…..also I just viewed a clip on my local news about this situation she thinks everyone is takeing her rights away…..Well what about my right to a TIT free meal I would have ask her to leave my business also.
Good Lord lady if you need to do it cover up or do it somewhere other than at the dinner table
Yes John, I do think you are bad, and not in the good way, as Run DMC would say. I’m sure you are a good person in some ways as well, everybody is, but your contention that a woman who breast feeds is inviting being raped by sexual deviants is beyond bad, it is absolutely disgraceful.
Are you really so dimwitted that you can’t see the hypocritical irony of attacking me personally at the same time you are decrying personal attacks? That really is hysterically funny. First you called me naive, then you went on about my “fancy” ivy league education and how I must not have studied debate, blah, blah, blah. Hilariously, in the same breath you said that I was a bad student and that I went to an ivy league university. So in your alternate reality ivy league universities take bad students? Apparently you were absent the days that they taught about continuity and reason.
No matter how many different monikers you post under here, your posts are still just as ridiculous.
“No, I would never tell my daughter that if she breast feeds in public she is inviting rape. I would tell her that anyone who argues such an despicable, twisted point is in serious need of mental help.”
I beg your ignorant pardon. First of all, I did not mention the word “rape”, nor did I argue in FAVOR of the CREEPS who display their CREEPY behaviour. Secondly, it is the CREEP who is despicable. Third, wearing short skirts is by no means the same as exposing a bare breast, and if you think it is, I suggest you go hang out in Pritchard Park one afternoon with a short skirt on, and see what kind of attention you get. Then, return the next day and expose your breasts. Then, report back here with your results.
I have ample reason to express my concern for the safety of mom and her child, because, as a mom who once breastfed INDISCREETLY in public (i.e. bare breasted), I was followed to my car by a CREEP who commented about how he would like to, “suck my titties” too, and followed me out of the parking lot until I realized he was following me, and drove to the police department. Later, thinking this must have been an isolated incident, I again breastfed INDISCREETLY in my car at a park, to be knocked back into reality when I realized the CREEP in the car beside me was jerking off.
You can think whatever you want about me, I don’t give a crap, but to suggest that my experiences were unique and that society is “maturing” is ignorant at best and dangerous at worst. Not one of you is speaking from personal experience, you are speaking as pie-in-the-sky idealists who have a very frightening and rude awakening ahead of you. Really.
Oh, and one more thing – I am not a conservative prig. I am an artist who sees naked bodies regularly IN THE CONTEXT OF AN ARTIST’S STUDIO, I breastfed until my child weened herself, and I am SO pro-female that I want nothing more than to ensure that mom and child are SAFE. She’s a stupid airhead who needs someone to shake her up before she has more trouble than what she has experienced at Denny’s.
I know, I was once a stupid airhead.
j.d.green wrote: “…Well what about my right to a TIT free meal I would have ask her to leave my business also.”
She has a right to breastfeed in public without having to hide any part of it. But sorry, I hate to break it to you, but you really DO NOT have a “right” to a “TIT free meal,” as you so crudely put it, any more than I have a “right” to be free from reading or hearing such inappropriate language to describe a woman’s breast from the likes of you.
So many people seem to think they have some kind of “right” to be free of any and every thing out in public that displeases them in some way. Get over it. You have no such right. People are free to do what they want as long as they are not breaking the law or not doing any harm to anyone else. A woman breastfeeding in public does no harm to you or anyone else, but if for some reason you don’t like it, just look away or leave.
Ent – you started degrading the conversation with the cyanide comment. In the south, we don’t start it, but we finish it.
I never said breast feeding in public was inviting rape. I was responding to your denial of bad people out there and the risks involved.
Your fantasy world does not reflect reality no matter how much you want it to. Good luck with that.
Loryloo said, “I know, I was once a stupid airhead.”
Don’t sell yourself short. You are still going strong.
I’m sorry for what happened to you, and I am sorry that you feel that breast feeding is an invitation for perverts to attack you, but that doesn’t make it so.
There is nothing wrong with breast feeding. Everitt is not an airhead for beast feeding as she sees fit, and it was offensive for you to say so.
You missed the whole point. In countless cases, rapists have claimed that women who wore short skirts were asking for it. A woman who wears a short skirt is not inviting sexual predators, and neither is a woman who breast feeds.
As to your ridiculous hypothetical, I have never seen a woman who was breast feeding get cat calls for it, but I have seen that happen countless times to women in revealing clothing. Either way, the only person responsible for inappropriate behavior is the person committing the act. Your blame the victim mentality is just plain warped.
I dont think there are any laws on the books to prevent a “TIT free meal”, or every NASCAR event would be shut down, every swimming pool and college campus closed.
There is, however, a law allowing women to breast feed in public.
Hmmmm. So much for the law-and-order dogmatists.
Ent and PK’s assumption that I am posting under multiple names indicates either a fear of or underestimation (or both) of the number of people (the vast majority on this thread) that share my point of view that this girl intentionally created this situation for publicity purposes. Nursing mothers exist all over the country without creating this kind of drama.
Actually no, I was referring to the various names you have used here over the last year and a half or so. Are you really going to outright lie to us and tell us that you have only ever used the moniker John here?
It’s not exactly a secret that the Mountain X blogs tend to be dominated by right wing extremists such as you, travelah, and Nad Cheesebit. Since there are virtually no articles in the actual alt weekly paper representing your right wing extremist viewpoints, it is safe to say that the vast majority of the people who actually read the paper agree with me.
John wrote: “…this girl intentionally created this situation for publicity purposes. Nursing mothers exist all over the country without creating this kind of drama.”
The “drama” was created by a bunch of intolerant busybodies and really poor and inappropriate decisions and actions on the part of Denny’s personnel. Before that, there was no drama, just a young mother minding her own business while breastfeeding her child, quietly, naturally, and legally.
“Nursing mothers exist all over the country without creating this kind of drama. ”
The “drama” was created by the un-named customer who complained to management instead of interacting with Everitt in a kind, personal, respectful manner. The “drama” was exacerbated by Denny’s management breaking NC law.
I thought you were all for following the law to the letter?
John, we both know that continuity and reason generally aren’t your cup of tea, but are you seriously so intellectually dishonest that you are not going to own up to the fact that you implied that woman who breast feed in public are opening themselves up to sexual predators. I have news for you John, the usual MO of sexual predators is rape.
You are the one that compared breast feeding to cyanide, not me. So now you are chickening out of the contest? I’ve looked at breasts today, have you had your cyanide?
In the South you don’t start it, but you finish it? Is that some kind of threat? Tell it to Sherman. We are both in the South, John. Or has your complete detachment from reality made you lose sight of that? I already busted you (under a different moniker) in the past for citing nonsense from Thomas DiLorenzo of the registered white supremacist hate group the Southern Heritage Foundation, so it is impossible to take anything that you say at all seriously.
Kriss, much earlier in this string of comments was a link to an online mothering community where Crystal admitted to exactly what you can’t believe. Drop the bloodlust.
Chesire, what an absolute load of baloney. Prove it. Cut and paste the quote here. You can’t because your claim is nonsense. Bloodlust? Prove that ridiculous claim too. Show where Kriss called for blood.
“Kriss, much earlier in this string of comments was a link to an online mothering community where Crystal admitted to exactly what you can’t believe.”
What I “can’t believe”? I’m not sure what you mean by that. I’m guessing you are trying to make some kind of point about who started the whole thing, and are still trying to blame the breastfeeding mother, which is ridiculous.
If that’s the case, re-read the following, which I had posted earlier as well:
“You know, whether she purposely chose to breastfeed in public at that particularly location at that particular time in order to make a statement about how breastfeeding mothers are continually being discriminated against, in spite of North Carolina law clearly making it illegal to be treated that way, is really irrelevant. What difference does it make as to what her intent might have been? That changes nothing. The facts are the facts. She was breastfeeding her child in public at a private business, something she had a right to do. If some other people didn’t like it, that was their own personal problem, not hers. If Denny’s had done the right thing, there would have been no issue. When you go out in public, you can’t expect to always see things that are perfectly pleasing to your own sensibilities and standards that you might have set for your own life.”
Ent – your infatuation with ‘right wing extremists’ has you twisted into a knot. My friends would laugh at you if you tried to tell them I am a right wing extremist.
Saying I compared normal every day breast feeding to cyanide is ridiculous. Talk about a lack of ability to understand reason. Especially when Gamma Rays was much funnier. Can you not grasp where that comment came from when you look back at others comments?
You then bring up a civil war reference. That is certainly on topic. Explaining what that point I made really meant is useless as your mind is already made up from baseless preconceptions. Perhaps you can look it up.
Neither one of us is going to change our minds and arguing for its own sake is a exercise in futility and frustration. Perhaps we can agree on that.
I want the police to remove John’s comments. They are disturbing my meal. Not to mention my puritanical leanings.
Entopticon, I will say again, you are living in a fantasy world, and I will also point out that I have never, “blamed the victim”. I am warning mom that her behaviour lacks good judgement, and that continuing this could result in her becoming a, “victim”. And again, I encourage you to go sit in Pritchard Park with your breasts exposed and report back here with your results. Are you expousing in your fantasy theory that nothing will happen to you? That people will just go on about their business and ignore you? That doing so does NOT invite controversy or attention? That someone might actually consider your behaviour an invitation? I also ask you, why would mom NOT cover up? Why not behave like the millions of other moms out there who are discreet and respectful of themselves and others? And if you cannot answer these questions without throwing mud, then your statements are baseless, inexperienced, naive and irrelevant. Or, perhaps you are one of “them” who is titilated (pun not intended) by the sight of a naked breast and are really a perv hiding behind a mask of open-minded liberalism, which would explain why you cannot and will not address my comments as an adult with life experience and mature judgement. But I expect you are a young college student who has yet to understand the real world, in which case, get ready, darlin, it ain’t a “Friends” episode.
LOL, John said: “Saying I compared normal every day breast feeding to cyanide is ridiculous.”
Problem is, John also said: “I love the ‘its natural’ argument. Its so precise and to the point…. Here are a list of things that are natural: Cyanide, Arsenic, Cancer, Gamma Rays, Drought, Famine, CO2, SO4, NH3, Coal, Oil, Body Hair, Nail Clippings, Plaque, The Flu, the list goes on forever.”
Thanks for the entertainment.
I brought up the Civil War reference because you either made a thinly veiled threat or you suddenly decided to start quoting some line from Deliverance, and the fact that you have repeatedly pushed the rhetoric of a registered white supremacist hate group concerning your Civil War conspiracy theories is one of the many reasons why I just can’t take you seriously.
I believe that it is possible that your friends may not think you are a right wing extremist. In fact, I think almost nobody’s friends would describe them as right wing extremists. If you asked the Grand Wizard of the KKK or David Duke’s friends, they wouldn’t say they are right wing extremists. Dick Cheney’s friends wouldn’t say he was a right wing extremist!
Perhaps you should ask your friends if they think you are a right wing extremist and get back to us. To me, pushing the rhetoric of a registered white supremacist hate group more than qualifies you as a right wing extremist, but hey, maybe your friends disagree. They are your friends after all. Aren’t they?
Actually Lorlyloo, there is no short list of both legal and feminist literature on the subject of blaming the victim, and that is exactly what you are doing. You even called Everitt an airhead even though the term is much more apt for you, “darlin.” You are no better than the people who let rapists free with the ludicrous argument that a woman bears some responsibility for what a pervert does if she did something to titillate him.
Since there is nothing wrong with breast feeding, it is not the fault of the woman is some perv has an issue with it, and it is certainly not her responsibility to adjust her actions so as not to disturb the warped sensibilities of prigs. Your argument that they bring on themselves is just plain disgraceful.
The fact is, the problems arrive from the perverts, prigs, and people like you who shamefully argue that it is indecent not to cater to their psychosis.
It doesn’t matter whether it is lipstick, short skirts, low cut shirts, shiny hair, visible eyes, an exposed knee, or breast feeding. Women have the right to do whatever they want.
Judgmental and ignorant people like you only endanger them with the ludicrous notion that they brought it on themselves if something bad happens to them. Luckily your twisted reasoning now holds much less sway in our legal system than it used to, and it is even illegal to argue that in most cases now.
By the way, I am 41, but enjoy your Friends marathon. You sure do sling a lot of mud for someone who can’t take it.
I find breast-feeding incredibly offensive. Breasts are meant to be sexualized/objectified, not used to feed babies!
What is this, the 3rd world? Buy some formula!!
“…Why not behave like the millions of other moms out there who are discreet and respectful of themselves and others?”
Loryloo, I don’t agree with anything you said, but the one sentence quoted above was the most egregious. The implication is that there is something shameful as well as disrespectful about breastfeeding. Nothing could be further from the truth. You also keep referring to breastfeeding as if it is some kind of purposeful sexually provocative act that needs to be hidden away from the view of everyone since it might cause certain men to lose control of themselves and make unwanted sexual advances. I think that’s pretty much the thinking of Muslim extremists such as the Taliban. This is America, not Afghanistan. Women don’t have to be afraid to be women when they are out in public.
As to being respectful, respect is how people treat one another. It has nothing to do with the natural and very innocuous act of breastfeeding a baby in public, something which in no way does any harm to any other person.
Okay, still no takers on the dare to go into Pritchard Park and bare your breasts and see what kind of response you get. Why? What are you afraid of? Nor are there any responses that are actually addressing my assertation that it is not the fault of mom that a creep behold her nudity in a sexualized fashion, but it is naive to think that there AREN’T creeps out there beholding her flagrant feminine motherhood in a sexualized fashion. It is a fact, I experienced it, and again, I am just looking out for mom AND CHILD’S safety. I don’t believe that ent is 41, but I do believe ent is a man, and therefore unable to understand what it is like to be sexualized and/or harrassed by creepy men.
That absolutely no one has addressed any of my questions and concerns, that the only responses have been completely off the mark (I have not implied that breastfeeding is shameful, ever), that anyone really believes that just because we live in America, women don’t have to be afraid, “to be women” when they are in public is ludicrous. Do you not read the paper? Do you walk alone in dark alleys? Do you read newspapers? GET REAL! I BREASTFED! I absolutely do not believe that there is anything sexually provocative about it. But if you really don’t think that naked breasts are NOT sexually provocative, then I ask you just how did Hugh Hefner make his money? Are you SERIOUS?! The difference is between baring your nipples and breasts IN PUBLIC or covering yourself discreetly. We don’t live in Nairobi, and you are an absolute nut case if you are walking the streets of this country thinking that naked breasts are not perceived as sexual in our culture, and therefore not arousing. OR you are a gay man (ent?!) Please respond to my points, stop making the idiotic assertions that I am endorsing creepy behaviour and that I am claiming that ALL men are creeps and unable to contain their creepiness, and if you can’t, then you are making my arguments unassailable.
Here is the tough truth, naive children: Creepy people do not have the ability to make mature distinctions. Creepy people do not have boundaries. Creepy people do creepy things. Creepy people spend hours on the internet looking at naked breasts, NOT looking at long skirts and buttoned-up shirts. WHY? BECAUSE BREASTS ARE AROUSING! If you want to expose your naked breasts in public, and don’t give a rip about your safety or the safety of your child, you are at the mercy of creepy people, you are asking for attention and you are likely to get attention that is unkind, unwelcome and potentially dangerous.
Or, you can take your chnces with an innocent child. Your choice. Your lives. Your possible BIG mistake. Why risk it?
If you want to KEEP breasts arousing, by all means continue to hide them from view and give them even more power to excite by virtue of their very tantalizingly taboo status. Bare breasts are NOT sexy. ALMOST bare breasts are sexy! Cleavage is sexy! Breasts under tight-fitting clothing or peeking out of lingerie and swimsuits are sexy. Fully exposed boobs are boring. Go to a nude/clothing optional establishment sometime and see how long it takes you to get un-aroused from the plain-ness and boredom of just plain, unsupported breasts hanging about.
If you REALLY want to make breasts unappealing and de-sexualize them, you will stop making them tantalizingly taboo by insisting they or certain parts of them be covered and screaming bloody murder if you happen to catch a nipple. If you prudes would grow up and stop assigning arbitrary morality to random parts of the body and just let them become as boring as men’s nipples apparently are, then there would not be this need to structure our behavior around what we think “creeps” may or may not like.
brebro wins best comment of the year.
Lorlyloo, I do not doubt for one moment that you have a fountain of insights into creepiness. You’ve certainly done an excellent job of giving me the creeps.
Although your insights into creepiness may be endless, your arguments are just plain pathetic. Out of one side of your mouth you claim that you are not blaming the victim, and out of the other side of your mouth you openly claim that breast feeding in public is asking for it.
It is sadly funny that you keep ranting about how naive everyone else is, when it is you that is astonishingly naive. Try picking up a book sometime and you will learn that when you blame the victim by laying fault on a woman for breast feeding in public, you endanger women. If a creep harms a woman because he saw her breast feeding it is in NO WAY her fault. It certainly doesn’t make her an “airhead” and you are disgraceful for saying that it does.
brebro was exactly right; when people such as you fuel the fires of stigmatization with your shameful rhetoric, you put women in danger.
Yes I am 41 and yes I am a man. By the way, my wife is every bit as creeped out by your twisted reasoning as I am.
Do you really think a woman never breast fed a baby in Pritchard Park? It probably happens every day in nice weather.
She actually mentioned “creep” or “creepy” in all its various forms 12 times. I think that would creep anybody out.
Mammals: (formally Mammalia) are a class of vertebrate animals whose name is derived from their distinctive feature, mammary glands, with which they feed their young.
Over-the-topticon, you are one of the most offensive an inappropriate responders I have ever read on this site.
Casey Dean Sausage (since moniker amusement seems to be in order)… Some people love my posts, some people don’t. I am glad that you hate them.
Personally I’m offended by the people who suggest that a breast feeding woman is an “airhead” and an “attention whore” who is “asking for” creeps to attack her.
I am glad to offend you. If there is some other way I can offend you, be sure to let me know.
And still no answer to my questions. No takers on the dare, and many responders clearly living in a world of bliss. Nice. Awesome. Amazing. Bizarre.
“If a creep harms a woman because he saw her breast feeding it is in NO WAY her fault.”
Well, at least you can agree that a creep could do harm to a woman. Very good, you’re making progress. Now, I wish we could move on the the question of why a person might be compelled to do harm, but evidently no one here is able to wrap their head around that idea. Don’t like the word creep? Okay, how about stalker, pervert, abuser, sociopath, con man? Better now? Picky semantics don’t change the facts of life.
Taking my point and turning it to, “blaming the victim” is passive agressive, and does nothing to further your point or add to this forum. I am WARNING mom that she COULD become a victim, based on my own personal experience, which evidently is insufficient when compared to blind idealism. If you do not feel that life experience has any justifiable reasoning, that is your interesting and poor choice. I suppose you don’t wear seatbelts or use condoms. After all, we live in a beautiful world where everyone obeys the laws and is honest and healthy. Really, put down the bong and get some fresh air. Sure, it would be great if women could just bare it all without someone perceiving it inappropriately, but that is not reality. If your chosen controversial path in life is to convert The United States of America to a land where we all bow down in wonderment at the appearance of Madonna and Child, remember that you take along an innocent child while you blaze it.
One more thing. I have not been compelled to defend myself despite the mud slinging, because my point has been one of concern for mom and child based on my own experiences, and I don’t have any need to win your approval. (Nor, based on the appearance that you are unintellectual and immature, a desire to). But if ent is really a 41 year old man, I still have 22 years more of life experience than he, and I guarantee I have more education. I am certain of this based on his inability to answer direct questions, an ability I know that, as a tenured professor, one must possess in order to attain higher education.
No matter, part of that education is realizing that only a fool will argue with a fool, so I respectfully retreat from this forum and wish you all well with those Utopian fantasies. And I sincerely wish well for mom and child and all loving, young, inexperienced moms out there. It’s a tough, crazy world, whether you like it or not. At least you can’t say you weren’t warned.
Well done Lorlyloo, you have managed to outdo yourself. I didn’t think that was possible. Don’t worry, creepy works just fine. For someone who can dish it out with abandon, you sure can’t take it. You are the one who called Everitt an airhead despite the fact that the term much, much more aptly applies to you.
Do you ever get tired of being wrong? I’m glad you are so educated. For all I know you may well have a better education than me as you claim, but you are wrong about me being uneducated. I have a Master’s degree from an ivy league university and I have actually studied a number of subjects at the Master’s level and have been published in and refereed articles for prominent academic journals.
I have to say, all your education doesn’t seem to have done you a lick of good because your reasoning here is seriously lacking, as is your ability to comprehend the simple fact that when you blame women for breast feeding in public, as if it isn’t a perfectly fine, natural, and legal thing to do, you endanger women. You can rationalize your nonsense all you want, it won’t change the fact that you are wrong.
As for your asinine dare, it was already pointed out that you are completely delusional if you think there is something unusual about a woman breast feeding in Prtichard Park. Are we to take it that if a woman breast feeds in Pritchard Park you will drop your delusional and offensive nonsense once and for all?
Picture this? A camera zooms and pans through a nicely furnished room to a middle-aged guy on a computer. A clock above him speeds up rapidly to show the incessant hours and days spent on the computer. Then the voice-over: Do you know somebody like this man here? Have you seen thousands and thousands of dollars spent on somebody’s higher education only to produce a mind bogged down in conceptual academic ideas. Do you find yourself astonished at the disparity of book knowledge to common sense? Do you get exasperated because you are not able to penetrate this fortress of intellectual superiority that espouses logic so illogically? Do you get frustrated with a self-righteous, indignant, and delusional crusade mentality to set the world straight with a self presumed impeccable and keen intellect? Does he argue with everybody and outlandishly twist their assertions into an unrecognizable formula that is simplified and stripped of any nuance? Well you are not alone. We can help. So please give. L.E.F.O. Life Experience for the Over-educated. Don’t let a good education go to waste. This is a public service announcement.
I gave up on this thread and now someone is posting as me. Have fun with your games. Out.
I certainly hope that my response to who is going to be allowed. To allow his attack and disallow my defense would be unconscionable.
“I certainly hope that my response to who is going to be allowed. To allow his attack and disallow my defense would be unconscionable.”
You know, entopticon, I wouldn’t even be concerned about the rantings of such an obvious troll, anonymous and unregistered, whose only obvious purpose here is to disrupt and agitate, rather than intelligently discuss the topic.
OK, who, entopticon and everyone else posting here: Thanks for all the passion you’ve brought to this thread, but the ad nauseum jabs back and forth are starting to wear this moderator (and doubtless some Xpress readers) out. Please either dial down the snark and vitriol or move on to a different topic.
looks like they couldnt “dial down the snark”