Going down to their level

I’m all for more democracy and dialogue. However, I might take exception to Xpress dignifying with front-page publicity the mid-19th century, gutter-level discourse that the Carolina Stompers represent [“Fighting Mad,” Dec. 5, 2007].

A friend of mine brought up an interesting point: Considering the rich, dignified and multifarious history of worthwhile activist organizations in Asheville, how many others has the Xpress afforded such coverage and dignified with a forum? I understand the give-‘em-enough-rope theory, but apparently that maxim has its limits, as the value of the Stompers’ sensationalism would seem to attest.

Please reconsider this editorial strategy in the future. It really does nothing more than egg on the bottom-feeders.

— Eamon Martin
Editor, The Global Report
San Francisco


Before you comment

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98 thoughts on “Going down to their level

  1. Trey

    Aww c’mon, this was like the 7th post in the last thread about the stompers… verbatim.

    Are you guys not getting enough letters to the editor???

  2. Good to hear from you Eamon. Have you moved to San Francisco?

    Let’s just say that the Chompers had their day in the sun and got baked.

  3. Progressives cannot stand any exposure for conservatives because their (the progressives) message cannot stand when compared to conservatism.

    Imagine the progressive response if there were a local TV or radio station that were conservative.

    (WWNC does not count because it does not have conservative actors on the local stage)

    The Carolina Stompers are one of a very few local conservative groups, and as such, they are ripe trargets for progressive haters, and anti-Christian haters.

  4. Gordon Smith

    Um, Bobby. If that’s true, then the Stompers message will soon sweep the nation. They’ve got ink and exposure. It won’t be long before we progressives melt into the earth from the white-hot light of Nesbitt’s theocratic bigotry.

    The truth is that the message itself sucks. Using something that happened over a hundred years ago to call modern Democrats racists? Claiming that ENDA will put drag queens in your childrens’ classrooms? Attacking the Wiccans then beating a cowardly retreat when challenged?

    This is not winning stuff, Bobby.

  5. Tim:

    I agree thoroughly — the Stompers “got baked” by refusing to debate us (Lady Passion, High Priestess, and *Diuvei, High Priest, Coven Oldenwilde, Asheville) ;-)


    Only the Stompers’ gutlessess was exposed :-)

    Despite your and the Stompers every attempt to recast or reframe this dialogue as a matter of “conservatives” versus “progressives”, everyone else is clearly aware that the Stompers you support crumbled rather than fairly debate intellectual Pagans in a public forum set up using common criteria.

    The Witches of Asheville did not target the Stompers — the Stompers targeted US, and we slapped their hands for their temerity ;-)

    Gordon Smith:

    Agreed regarding the Stompers “beating a cowardly retreat when challenged” by we Wiccans they tried to bash with their bigotry ;-)

  6. And thanks, Eamon, for reiterating in your Letter what I’ve written in online posts regarding this issue…

    I think it unconscionable that Xpress let bigoted ilk bash committed, life-affirming activist such as ourselves, and lends its ink to such to the exclusion of opponents of such bigotry.

    Xpress should have contacted us for comment before printing Meet the Carolina Stompers, and should consider “Point/Counterpoint”-type features in the future.

  7. I’ve advised them to not debate unless it was under the strictest of conditions, like under Vermont rules or some such, with an experienced panel of judges in that method of debate…with points awarded according to form.

    Otherwise, it is just sound and fury…like the Presidential Debates.

    The proof will be, as they say, in the pudding. I’d rather work on building networks and making videos mocking people who have no sense of humor. ;p

  8. Nam Vet

    The “Global Report” is a Marxist publication. And they consider the Stompers a fringe group? LOL, a clear case of projection. :) But he has a point. I wish the XPress had featured the Global Report comrades before they folded up and left. We could’ve had a lot of fun with these commies. The extremes both left and right are fun and fair game. JON…how about featuring a far leftwing fringe group next time? How about Earth First! if youcan get them to come out of the shadows?

  9. tatuaje

    Nam Vet, I have seen your inflammatory posts on other threads and have always decided I wouldn’t dignify you with a response. However, as the Producer of the AGR TV show for the last year, I take extreme offense to your remarks here.

    First: We are not Marxists. In fact, there never has been any political agenda or affiliation behind the AGR. We simply cover news underreported by mainstream media, believing that a free exchange of information is necessary to organize for social change.

    Second: Fringe group? We are seen on public access channels around the country and are featured on the Dish Network. That’s satellite tv, a potential 25 million viewers. Hardly fringe, wouldn’t you say? The stompers can only dream that so many people would take them as seriously.

    Nam Vet, all you seem to do is name call. And it seems to me that the people you attack are the ones out in the world actually fighting to make it a better place. You may call me a Commie until you turn blue in the face, but the fact is, while you troll around these chat rooms acting like a child, myself and others are out in the world attempting to make a difference. It’s not always easy, especially when people such as yourself try to drag us down every step of the way. But I for one see you for what you are: a lonely person who, instead of engaging life and trying to make it as good as it could possibly be, spends their time online attempting to disparage others. Truly pathetic. Turn off your computer, walk outside, and remember what it means to be a human being.

    Sean McNeal
    The Global Report
    Asheville, NC

  10. Nam Vet

    Sean, settle yourself mi amigo. You are seeing red, literally. I have read your Global Report in the past. It is a socialist, fringe publication. Deny it all you want, but it plainly is. The San Fransisco branch guy lit into the Carolina Stompers in the same way you accuse me of. So which is it? Y’all can dish out a little criticism but can’t take it? Even when it is meant in a lighthearted vein?

    The point of my posts is that Jon needs a little balance here. I suggest he uses a far leftwing fringe group as the next front page lightening rod. A fair request. You evidently have typed me as a conservative, hence your misunderstanding of my tone and intent. The farther left a person is, the more intolerance and vitriol they often have for those who disagree. I suggest that it is you who needs to go out in the sunshine and regain your humanity. I already have mine. Also,get yourself a sense of humor. It will keep you sane while you try to save the world through your neo-socialist agenda. And perhaps a sense of humor will give you a new perspective and save you from judging humorous posts as being inflammatory. :)

    Live it up mi amigo! It’s a great big wonderful world out there!

  11. travelah

    Sean McNeal, Perhaps you are not a Marxist. Aside from the ad hominem laced diatribe, there are certain oddities in your letter that you should have submitted to your copy editor before posting here.

    First: While you may or may not be Marxist, you are certainly far to the left of anything deemed “mainstream” media. Rather than “simply” covering less reported news, you have made it your mission to produce propaganda and as you note, assist in organizing for “social change”. Any reasonable mind would recognize such verbiage as a type of code-speak for leftist politics given the story content of your “reporting”.

    Second: It is quite a stretch of your imagination to state that you are a “feature” content on the Dish Network. It’s absolutely certain that you do not command any measurable fraction of the 25 million subscribers to the Dish Network. By your determination, Jimmy Swaggart, who is also “featured” on the Dish Network, commands a far greater presence than yourself. The folks who sell the knives in Tennessee have a larger audience share than yourself. Based on the content of your agenda, you are indeed fringe regardless of whether or not you are insulted by this reality.

    Your last paragraph is a pitiful example of one who wishes to tout himself as a journalist to be taken in a serious manner. Instead, you present yourself in the same vein as the yellow sheet you attempt to pass off as “simply reporting”. It is nothing but leftist activism using the same discredited tactics as the old Progressive Magazine. Of course, it’s a free country (the truth of which you have yet to recognize) so you are certainly free to engage in whatever political discourse you desire. However, it is ridiculous for you to claim you are not a leftist activist.

  12. Nam Vet

    Well put Travelah. Thanks for letting some light into this discourse.

  13. Okay, if not a website, maybe gainful employment someone can give this character of undetermined age and sex who identifies itself as “Nam Vet”, whatever that means.

  14. Thunderpig: “I’ve advised them to not debate unless it was under the strictest of conditions…with an experienced panel of judges in that method of debate…with points awarded according to form.”

    The form of the debate we offered was ordinary. The purpose of the debate is not for either side to “win”, but to allow both sides to argue the merits oft their beliefs.

    Public debate among adults is not intended to mirror beauty pagents with point systems. No need for a “judges”, as the debate is not a competition.

    If Chad & Nancy wanted to debate, they could correspond with us at any time and no doubt we’d arrive at an agreement regarding topics and style.

    They DON’T do so because they DON’T want to debate, and it has nothing to do with the form of the debate we proposed.

    Indeed, if you really want to parry re: points and form, I posit that the Stompers have points deducted for improper sentence structure, ad hominem tangents, and nonsequitors ;-)

  15. AGR is no more Marxist than Coven Oldenwilde is “Democratic” or “leftist”.

    AGR is a mainstream independent alternative paper — one of tens of thousands of such papers thriving throughout the U.S.

    If all the Stompers and their ilk can do is resort to ad hominem, incorrect labeling of every intelligent person who disagrees with their views, they should conceed defeat now ;-)

  16. travelah

    Lady Passion, the glaring oxymoron in your post is the phrase mainstream independent alternative paper. Aside from that, they cannot legitimately distance themselves from the leftist agenda of their story content on their website. While I am not a “stomper” I think the record is pretty clear as to who actually had to concede defeat in the latest local election. The one who danced at your gig came in dismally last.

  17. Nam Vet

    LOL, yes Elaine Lite didn’t make it did she? I wonder how much the tree circle photo had to do with branding her as a fringe politician. Personally, I would’ve preferred that she got elected instead of Brownie Newman. At least she was opposed to over-development. Brownie rubber stamps development projects because he wants the city to get the tax money. Seems we need a few more parks around Asheville. :)

  18. Rob Close

    i like the AGR. they give me another perspective. still up to me to find the truth in-between.

    for example; if i listened to mass media, i’d think hugo chavez is totally insane. instead, i think he’s a weirdo with some valid reasons for his power-hungry activities.

    does the AGR portray him heroically? i think so, but that’s how half the world sees him. so it does betray them appearing neutral, but quite frankly, i dare you to show me a neutral world-news paper. the AGR brings balance, but not in a vacuum – rather, in the context of the propaganda-based media we have here in the US.

    for the record, i dare anyone to go back pre-iraq-war and imagine if we’d have actually gone in knowing everything they published pre-invasion. all those lies that were so willingly published by others were questioned from the beginning by the AGR – and here we are 4 years later and the rest of the media has finally begun to catch up and admit “oh we went to war based on LIES”….we’ll see when they realize that propagating those lies was their fault.

    Is the AGR perfect? Nah. But it’s not propaganda, so much as free-thinkers coming up with an alternative to mass-media-brainwashing. And if you believe everything you ready anywhere, you’re an idiot, but if you have nowhere else to read the other perspective, you’re lost.

  19. Nam Vet

    Hugo Chavez? Come on Rob. Now doesn’t that give you a bit of a clue about AGR? That they speak well of a power hungry socialist? A man who wants to make Venezuela into another Cuba? Who was it who posted above and claimed AGR wasn’t leftwing? Most of the mainstream media, both video and print, already leans left. That’s not far enough for you? :)

  20. Rob Close

    i’m telling you, the idea that the mainstream media leans left is right-wing propaganda. seriously. our media is right-wing & centrist, and the centrists are consistently ridiculed as left-wing because there’s so much crazy shit going on from the Right.

    20 years ago, a leftist media may have prevailed. but it’s been killed, dissected, and eaten alive by corporate interests. any idea that the left are in control of the news is a joke. they got talk-shows, they got celebritys, but they don’t own the companies and they aren’t the ones controlling the message.

    and remember, socialists comprise most of our allies in this world. you may hate their politics, but so long as they elect their people democratically, i don’t see why our money should be going to overthrow their governments. yet how much does our media care that we spent millions to illegally overthrow Chavez, really? and what does that tell us about the state of our media?

    Or more relevantly – how many papers & news-programs really take Bush to task for his UTTER hypocrisy. This past mid-east tour for example – Bush is out there telling these dictatorships that democracy is the path to stability, and by the way here’s a shit-ton of advanced weaponry to keep control of your non-democratic nation. And what intelligent responses do we hear from our “left-wing media” – outside of comedy central?

  21. Rob Close:

    You can’t be serious?!?

    MSNBC….The DNC Channel

    CBS…..so left, only the Green Party can watch it!

    CNN…outside of Glenn Beck and Dobbs, who?

    Fox…they almost always present both sides of the story…and is the only major network that fits your description as right-center. The RINO network.

    ABC and NBC are lefty news networks.

    I just wish there was a real conservative network to present the news from a conservative point of view.

  22. Orbit DVD

    Ever noticed that BOTH the far left and far right accuse the media of misinformation?


  23. Nam Vet

    Rob, are you serious? You think most of our media is either centrist or rightwing? Huh? The New York Times. CNN. CBS. MSNBC. Are all left of center. And clearly so. But to a guy who tries to emphathize with Hugo Chavez, wow, I guess you are pretty far left to begin with. Hey why not go with Worker’s World Weekly and really get the news no one else reports. :)

  24. Nam Vet

    Yes I notice also Marc. It is quite funny to hear Bill Clinton complain that the news outlets are against him. When they clearly have carried water for him and Hillary for years now. In the 90s, CNN was known as Clinton News Network for good reason. So I guess it is a matter of perspective.

  25. Not misinformation, marc…bias without admitting to it.

    I read many lefty blogs, and respect their work, even if I disagree with what they say.

    For example, take the Success of the Surge in Iraq.

    Things had been going our way since July…and the blogs and Fox had been reporting it. The other “lefty” networks did not, and only begrudgingly began to once the story had grown so big they could no longer ignore it.

    They set the agenda by what they choose to cover, and what they chose to ignore.

    And for another example, look at the Media cozying up to try to get Hillary some help with Hillary Care in the 90’s from documents released under the Freedom of Information Act.


  26. Rob Close

    so the surge is working in An’bar provence? Faux News been reporting the situation fairly?

  27. Travelah: “I think the record is pretty clear as to who actually had to concede defeat in the latest local election. The one who danced at your gig came in dismally last.”

    This is because the local realtor/developer pac poured tons of money into the campaign to buy their yesboy into Council. Everyone knows this, as it’s been widely acknowledged in the press (including MXpress ;-)

    I agree with Rob Close. He makes valid points and reasonable arguments.

  28. Rob Close:
    Not one of the news channels gives anything remotely resembling what is going on in the region.

    Here are just a few websites to visit for up-to-date news and analysis about Iraq, most often by people
    who are there, or with many sources in the region.




    Here is my google reader shared items page, but you’ll have to wade through a bunch of stuff you would consider junk to get to the Battle of Iraq coverage:

    And my World War IV page, where you get the SITREP on the Global Jihad

    I hope this helps. If you want more, PM me for a more comprehensive list, I couldn’t get this interface to let me put more URLs into the system.

    The days of old monolithic networks are over.

  29. Akkk, to answer you question, Rob, about An’Bar, we are succeeding beyond the predictions of the media, and the Democrats wildest nightmares!

    Senator Harry Reid even said we have lost and should flee back in April of 2007.

  30. travelah

    Lady Passion, are you suggesting that the voters of Asheville sold their votes? That is a pretty lame excuse for your candidate coming in last. If I recall, a Republican who also lost still beat the candidate that danced at your gig. Who paid to buy the votes cast in favor of whoever beat the pro-business candidate that lost?

    Why not face the music and realize that your candidate and her agenda were totally rejected by the voting public by coming in dead last in a crowded field. It certainly was not the viewpoint of the stompers that was defeated at the polls.

  31. I think that Asheville is just a reflection of the rest of the nation. They voted for a progressive Democrat, a more conservative Democrat, and a Republican.

    What the far right and left fail to remember is that most people are in the center.


  32. Travelah: Are YOU suggesting that nationwide PACS and similar financed groups DON’T buy their candidates into office ;-)

    Paleeze — how politically naive you must be not to know or acknowledge a common topic of lament in this country (campaign finance reform, etc.)

    Elaine’s campaign did suffer from several changes in her campaign manager… This was the most likely reason she did not win, as she is quite popular with many voters…

  33. travelah

    Lady Passion, are you stating that the voters in the last election rejected the candidate that danced at your gig because she changed campaign managers? That excuse is even more lame than the idea that somebody bought off all the Asheville voters. In summary, it seems you are stating the following scenario:

    Typical Asheville Voter:
    “Well, I REALLY liked the candidate that danced at the wiccan gig but when she changed her campaign manager I started having second thoughts and when that Florida developer paid me off to vote for his guy, I just couldn’t bring myself to vote for her even though she is the best!”

    As for what I am stating, it is simple. Your excuse of the electorate being bought off is absurd and lacks any substance. Your candidate lost and the stompers did not due mostly to the fact they were not in the running! This is just further evidence of why nobody should debate you if only to keep you from making a fool out of yourself (even though it would be entertaining).

  34. Yes, I AM “stating that the voters in the last election rejected the candidate that danced at your [my] gig because she changed campaign managers”.

    Sadly, Ms. Lite did not do this once, but several times, and as any political person knows, this can and often does cause campaign confusion and varying of campaign strategy and focus.

    I never wrote that “someone bought off the Asheville voters”.

    What I wrote was no different than the campaign finance scrutiny Mountain Xpress gave Russell ;-)

    As everyone knows, loosing elections is less about individual voters being “bought off”, but rather, the funds poured in for certain (in this case, pro-developent) candidates by PACS with agendas who use their funds to overwhelm other candidates who refuse to be bought by monies from such tainted sources ;-)

    Wow. You’d be the absolute FIRST to accuse ME of being a fool, Travelah ;-).

    I find that hard not to laugh at, considering the spelling of your online moniker :-)

    Indeed, I posit that it’s YOUR cluelessness regarding local politics that is as “breathtaking” as the Stompers’ refusal to debate their Pagan betters ;-)

  35. Nam Vet

    Excuses, excuses. Elaine lost. Let’s get over it and move on. Dot org? :)

  36. I offer no excuses, only an explanation that differs from your own.

    I’m not surprised you resort to labeling rather than address my clear response ;-)

    Did you not READ the Xpress article about this?

    If so, it would explain your lack of knowledge on the subject…

  37. travelah

    Lady Passion, it is my hope that you make yourself of avail to every Democrat and leftist campaign in the area. I can think of no better service to the Republican Party.

    As for my moniker, it is many years old and spelled as intended albeit you would not realize it. Again, you offer no reasonable purpose in having the “stompers” debate you or for that matter having anybody debate you. Your candidate lost because the fewest number of voters supported her. There is no other reason.

  38. Nam Vet

    Travelah, I must say I agree with you so often we must be brothers in some way. If you are from the Northeast, considering the “travelah” moniker, I must say you go against my stereotype of folks from that area. Thanks for posting here with a clear intellect.

    Going UP to the higher level!

  39. Travelah: As legal Wiccan clergy who runs a religious nonprofit Coven, we’ve made it clear for many, many years that we don’t support or advocate for any political party — unlike many Xtians, and in compliance with Federal law ;-)

    I’ve asked Chad & Nancy if they’d agree to have Sheryl Barber moderate our debate, as he’s a well-respected neutal journalist.

    Thus far they’ve refused to comment.

    Can anyone focus on the topic for once?

  40. Avery

    Thunder Pig – you ought to look up the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Or any of the countless other propaganda operations like it. That’s largely part of what’s been going on for years.

  41. Smith

    “The Carolina Stompers… are ripe trargets for progressive haters, and anti-Christian haters.”

    Wait, aren’t you an anti-Christian hater because you don’t generally like Christian haters?

  42. avery

    Thunder Pig – Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Multinational Force Iraq a government military media operation? Time and time again we see that news from such sources is far from objective. There are also agencies established for the sole purpose of influencing public opinion with regard to controversial military matters and policy. I’m not certain but I think this outfit was even established as a vehicle for distributing the “official sources say” spin on Western forces in the Middle East. I’m not suggesting that everything MFI says points to false assertion, but if you’re going to recommend “independent” news sources to people, I don’t think this is a very good example to illustrate your point.

  43. avery

    Thunder Pig – consider checking into the Gulf of Tonkin incident and other successful staged propaganda operations. The “official sources say” machine is a lot more sophisticated that that now. Or consider the actress portaying an oppressed Kuwaiti woman who was planted to speak to U.S. Congress before the start of the first Gulf War. Turned out the stories she described were fictional accounts designed specifically to talk Congress into supporting the invasion.



  44. Nam Vet

    Yes Avery you have it! You know it is all a vast CFR conspiracy! Everything is staged. This conspiracy involves a lot of people, yet they all keep their silence out of their allegiance to CFR. And also everyone knows 9-11 was a putup job actually done by Bush so he could start some wars in the middle east. Thanks for reminding us. Does everyone have their tin foil hat on? :)

  45. Avery:

    I share your viewpoints.

    I just wish all you men could stick to the topic of the orginal Letter and debate minutia regarding its clearly expressed points!

    Guess I’ll opt out of this thread and continue on with Expands, etc…

  46. Since you’ve lost your way, I’ll exit by reiterating Eamon’s contention:

    “Considering the rich, dignified and multifarious history of worthwhile activist organizations in Asheville, how many others [activist/not hate-mongering groups like the Stompers] has the Xpress afforded such coverage and dignified with a forum?”

    Come up with examples that refute Eamon’s query, or privately e-mail yourselves your rambling opinions.

  47. travelah

    Lady Passion,
    It matters not to me if you are a Democrat or a Whig as long as your ideas and notions are associated with the leftist false progressive movement in and around Asheville. The topic here seems to be your obsessive desire to engage in some obscure debate and I do not think you have yet presented any compelling reason why anybody should debate somebody fancying themself to be a witch in a “coven”. While it could certainly be entertaining, your lack of any sense of a constituency makes the exercise a waste of time and resources.

  48. “The topic here seems to be your obsessive desire to engage in some obscure debate”

    I don’t see anything particularly obscure about it. Lady Passion originally challenged the Stompers to a debate on the very matter they made as a central point in their political smear film of Elaine Lite: Non-Christian religious or spiritual beliefs are suspicious and worthy of scorn and ridicule.

    “I do not think you have yet presented any compelling reason why anybody should debate somebody fancying themself to be a witch in a ‘coven’.”

    I think this condescending remark reflects a religious intolerance on your part.

  49. travelah

    timpeck, I think it is fair to state that I am not foolish enough to think that seriously confused souls who equate themselves, rights wise, with rocks and trees while dancing around a tree in a park in Asheville constitute any legitimate constituency worthy of political acknowledgment. Perhaps you think otherwise. Tolerance has nothing to do with this issue. That is simply a red herring on your part.

  50. avery

    Nam Vet, you didn’t really allude to a single point or piece of information I posted in my comment. Instead, you just got sarcastic and asked if people had their tin foil hats on, apparently because of my suggestion that a news source cited to make a point may have its own problems with objectivity and bias. I think I can probably predict what the tone of your next comment or response will be.

  51. dickyfauge

    Thanks for bringin your high powered interlect to bear on these leftist, progressive, misinformed citizens. Every one but you and namvet are wrong. Maybe you are one and the same.

  52. “I think it is fair to state that I am not foolish enough to think that seriously confused souls who equate themselves, rights wise, with rocks and trees while dancing around a tree in a park in Asheville constitute any legitimate constituency worthy of political acknowledgment.”

    Certainly no more than someone who believes you can feed 5,000 people with two fish. Why should the Wiccans stoop to debating with someone who believes that crap?

  53. travelah

    timpeck, I do not believe there are any Christian organizations that have expressed any interest in debating these people so your point seems to be moot. On the other hand, it would display a certain degree of political stupidity to suggest that Christians do not constitute a significant constiuency.

  54. Hopefully

    Who you callin’ stupid! While I agree that the bible thumpers have done a lot of harm throughout history, the world would be a very shatty place without their contributions.

  55. Tim, you have completely, and utterly, lost your mind.

    Without the contributions of the Christian world, your life, and the life of everyone in Western Civilization would be nasty, brutish, and short.

    Christopher Hitchens, the noted atheist, is a hater of the type that that has spawned pogroms that have killed millions.

    If there is no God, then there is no authority beyond mankind. And if there is no authority beyond that, then brute force has become your de facto god, because you can offer no argument against it.

    The fact is that while religious wars have been fought for centuries, militant atheism has slaughtered more people than religious zealots ever have. The greatest mass murders in history have been committed not by Christians but by Communists Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse Tung. More than 100 million have died at the hands of these militant atheists since the early 20th century.

  56. “Without the contributions of the Christian world, your life, and the life of everyone in Western Civilization would be nasty, brutish, and short.”

    So you want to have the debate now?

  57. Nam Vet

    Thunder Pig said: “I just wish there was a real conservative network to present the news from a conservative point of view.”

    There is. It’s called the EIB Network. Rush Limbaugh’s daily radio program 12noon M-F on 570am, voice of the mountains!

  58. Tim Peck:

    I’m guessing you have reading comprehension problems…I have been the one trying to convince NOT to debate.

    You are not interested in debate, and I doubt you ever have been due to your conduct in Asheville Politics (throwing the conservatives off, and posioning the lines of communication there) and the lack of a comment capability on your blog. If I were ever follish enough to debate you in public (under Vermont Rules only), I would utterly destroy you.

    I was only correcting a grievous error in your previous statement…pointing to a hate-filled atheist.

    Olasky is making an error in debating Hitchens, I wish him luck. I would prefer to leave the debate to be between the unsaved and God just before they are thrown into the Lake of Fire.

    If someone hates the idea of a Christian God so much thay become invested in debate, I fell that it is not my place to do the job of the Holy Spirit, and convict people of their sin.
    I have already been convicted and forgiven. My job for the kingdom now entails bringing in the harvest of souls.

    My prayer is that all who read these words will become convicted, and will seek salvation. Otherwise, have a good life, and try not to hurt other people while you are here.

    Nam Vet:

    I listen to the WHLO web feed from 8am to 5pm because the audio quality is better.

    WWNC has no local conservative voice, and that is my primary interest. The local show is lefty libertarian, always addressing “the role of government” when the question should be “what are you doing to get the governemt out of your life” on local and state levels. Although Matt is talented, he has drifted too far leftward over the past few years for my taste. Perhaps he has fallen for the fallacy of the displaced middle, which holds that the center of American Politics is mid-way between the extreme right and the extreme left.

    EIB is not TV, although it does reach 20 million each week, more thandouble the TV Networks put together. Most people do not have the luxury of being able to listen to the radio while they work.
    My hypothesis is a real conservative TV Network would easliy draw more viewers than all the rest put together, and force the others back to the center to preserve some portion of their marketability.

  59. Yes, Tim’s right of course. Travelah’s diminutization of a religion far older than his own reveals bigotry and intolerance — and worse, a profound and “breathtaking” lack of historical knowledge ;-)

    If MY call to debate was “obscure”, how would you label Chad’s weird twisiting of our challenge, and asking that the Dems debate him?

    Many of us might find that “entertaining”, but what would it accomplish?

    Asheville’s a safe haven for Witches because we strongly defend ourselves here, and refuse to be marginalized by those who feel religion is their purview as opposed to other religions or spiritual views. This is healthy and appropriate.

    If Travelha’s unaware of our following, he’s burying his head in the sand and needs to open his eyes and smell the incense ;-)

    Hummm… Xtian contributions, eh? Rampant utilization of Nature as a resource = concrete and deplete resources = global warming.

    Yeah, with friends like that, we’ll all live in Utopia forever, eh? How about biodomes because we can’t take our kids on Nature walks? Yeah, that sounds pleasant…


    Uh, honey, YOU seem to be the one who has reading comprehension problems, not Tim Peck ;-)

    People have written REPEATEDLY here and on other threads that WANT to see us and the Nesbitts debate. Clearly they DO want this, so no amount of you claiming they DON’T will suffice as an argument against them.

    The imagery you choose to use in your ‘responses’ is as scary and most unXtianlike: …”I would utterly destroy you”; …”debate between the unsaved and God just before they [God, too presumabley the way you’ve written it?] are thrown into the Lake of Fire”, etc. ad nauseum…

    So now you write that Witches demanding a debate is a SIN? You’re fallen off the beam, Thunderpig, and it seems to me and no doubt many others, that it is YOU who crave contention and want to debate somebody, anybody…

  60. Au contraire, Lady Passion…I was trying to convey that I WAS THE ONE trying to keep Chad from debating. I believe I am the only one on this thread, or the others repeatedly counseling Chad NOT to debate you, or anyone else. I don’t care what anyone else wants vis a vis the debate.

    So, my statement stands, except to add your name to the list of people for the short bus.

    I would utterly destroy him as I did you guys with the video mocking your (and your fellow travelers) response to Chad.

    I’m also guessing you haven’t read the Bible…since you seem confused about the Lake of Fire, or you are trying to be coy about who ends up there.
    You wrote: “So now you write that Witches demanding a debate is a SIN?”
    It is a sin of pride, in my opinion…for anyone to debate, or demand a debate without formal debate rules.

    Your repeated shrill cries and stamping of feet decries your need for attention. I have more than I want, thank you. I very much doubt I will be debating anyone anytime soon.

  61. Thunderpig:

    You’ve written so numerous times that you don’t want the Stompers to debate us. That was never a fact in dispute, nor what I faulted you for ;-)

    So you’re “bragging” that you destroyed us? Wasn’t this your latest chastizement of ME — that I was “taunting and bragging”? Stop mirroring the behavior that you accuse others of exhibiting ;-)

    Sorry, but no — it’s clear to see that the proponderence of folks on this thread feel that the bigotry you and the Stompers display is unnecessary and counterproductive in this day and age. Their opinions support our own — not your or the Stompers’. ;-)

    I was raised by adoptive fundie extremists, so I know the Bible verbatim. I wrote clearly that it was your lousy command of sentence structure that made your Lake o’ Fire comment unclear and easily misconstrued ;-)

    Thanks for clarifying in what specific way you consider a debate challenge sin. A SIN OF PRIDE to debate others of differing viewpoints, is it?

    By extension would you classify all the Xtians of differing denominations who debated what to exclude from the Bible as sinners (ref. the Council of Nicea)?

    Did not Jesus’ disciples debate their contemporary Pagan counterparts? Did they not pen many an Apologia to defend their positions?

    Of course they did, and you should well know this.

    We challenged Chad & Nancy to a simple mountain debate using simple rules: Neutral moderator, timed rounds, and questions of interest that they could’ve challenged and tweaked with us until we all reached consensus about the topics. Easy, breezy.

    They refused even these simple rules — with which only you in your paranoia have taken umbrage.

    You do your cause no service by claiming that I am “shrill” or “stamping [my] feet” solely because I challenge your contentions. This is mysogeny without merit.

    Make a legit point and I will concede it; until then, don’t expect me or any Witch to appreciate points you fail to make ;-)

    But we digress. The topic remains Chad & Nancy’s refusal to talk to those they dare bash, and nothing else.

    It’s goodly that you don’t want to debate others, as your bigotry would be your undoing. We did not wish to debate you anyway. We never asked you — only Chad & Nancy, as one couple vs. another couple seems fair.

  62. I am specifically objecting to the kind of debate you had challenged Chad to in the beginning.

    Don’t play word games with me. I make my living online “penning apologia” for the conservative movement, and the counterjihad.

    I was mocking you by using language that invoked the imagery of the hominids around the monolith.

    You do not want to debate me, as I debated in high school and college, even having to take up positions I did not agree with (the horror).

  63. No, you didn’t “mock me” by using imagery of the hominids around the monolith — you spouted Biblical Revelations rhetoric, which I busted you on.

    I think I’ve effectively stated that we did not ask to debate with you — our hope was that frankly, Chad & Nancy might be articulate counterparts to ourselves.

    Perhaps they are not…

  64. Thunder Pig said to Lady Passion:
    “Your repeated shrill cries and stamping of feet..”

    Do you need to watch the video again? I was directly comparing your actions to that of the hominids. Now I have proof you suffer from abstract thought…perhaps that explains your lack of understanding mockery! LOL

  65. Hopefully

    This whole thread is silly, what are you people talking about? Travelah is ad hominemin’, namvet is tossing out what he thinks are witticisms, the pig is arguing with a witch, wtf? This means nothing, nada , zilch! The only thing you should be thinking about right now is that in about a year, there’s going to be either a lesbian or a black man in the white house!(or maybe both) I bet heads will be exploding all over the south. You people who vote only three issues (guns, gays, racism) are going to have your noses rubbed in it like puppies who have shat the carpet. Think about it, deny it, whatever , it’s coming. And it’s about time!

  66. Goddess knows I”VE tried to keep these ilk on track by debating specific points of Chad’s diatribe, but they utterly refuse to defend his words (because they’re badly written and indefensible).

    For the last word on the subject, read my Commentary “Who’s Afraid of the Big, Bad Witch: Coven Oldenwilde Responds to the Stompers”.

    Their/this nonsensical thread should die in silcence now ;-) Let ’em eat wind.

  67. Nam Vet

    Lady Passion, peace be with you! Where’s the love? Wiccanism is based in love like the other religions, isn’t it? By continuing your endless posts on this subject you make one wonder, “just who is going down to whose level?” Leave it go Lady. May the Goddess be with you always. Awoman.

  68. quotequeen

    Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
    ~ Nietzsche

  69. Nam Vet

    “The well crafted big lie is a more dangerous foe of Truth than the convictions of the wrongly informed.”

  70. Fallstaff

    I too wonder where the love is here. I guess if you have a religion that worships the devil you are going to have smackdowns.

  71. Don Yelton

    As I read this chain of post I see comments about the Wilmington Race Riots which was the result of a speach by a well know Democrat. Yes that was many years ago but just recently right here in Buncombe County Commissioners Chambers we had a shameful event. A fine man who is considering running for the Chair of the Republican Party’s wife was denied a position on a board due to his considering running for the Chair’s position.

    I would be amiss if I did not point out how many years the Chairman of the Planning and Zoning board for the city was the Democratic Chair.

    Just recently, Bruce Peterson was appointed to the farmland preservation board and the last time I checked his wife is a County Commissioner.

    What is this different rules for different folks or just a replay to keep Black Americans from positions of leadership.

    I think the events 100 years ago is just another example of how power works in politics. The politics in Buncombe.

  72. nam veteran

    You are right Don. It is amazing how racist the North Carolina democrat party is, and has been. After all, the NC democrat party is the party of Jim Crow laws. So ironic they lie and say they are a party of inclusion.

    So you won’t catch me going down to a racist liberal democrat level this coming November.

  73. Chuck Zimmerman

    Racism has no bounds. There have been excesses of oppression on both sides, but to paint any one party with guilt for individual errors, especially as they happened many years ago, is just assinine & stupid.
    Where are the examples of racism by the people who are running right now? Where?

  74. Ashevegasjoe

    Look at the presedential nominees from both parties. A bunch of white men (except for that one debate where Alan Keyes showed up?!) vs. a woman, a black guy, a latino etc. If the Republicans aren’t racist why don’t they have more minority leadership? The first black (or as Rush so racistly referred to as “halfrican”?!) will be elected in Nov., and he will be liberal and democratic. Hallelujah

  75. travelah

    Perhaps you would do well to compare the minority representation of the Bush administration with that of Clinton or Carter, both “good” southern Democrats.

  76. Ashevegasjoe

    travelah, perhaps you would, here I’ll do it for you. Clinton’s court and cabinet appointment’s far exceeded any prior administration. Whereas Reagan and Bush Sr. had 545 federal judicial appointments– 65 were women, 22 hispanic, 2 asians, and 17 african americans. Clinton had 365 federal judicial appointments– 64 women, 23 hispanic, 5 asians, 1 american indians, and 61 african americans. G.W.’s push for diversity is an affirmation that Clinton’s appointments created a shift towards diversity. But the point I was making was presidential candidates, obviously since there is no debate there, you tried to change the topic to overall representation, which I greatly appreciate. When you look at political appointments that do not require senate confirmation, Clinton’s appointments far exceeded any president before him, and are a much higher percentage than our current president. As for Carter, I’ll have to do some research, as I was two when he left office! The point is more minorities are democratic, not because they have been duped by liberals, but because they realize they are better represented by the party who is more diverse. The core of the Republican party is Christian Conservatives who are far less tolerant of people who are not white and wealthy–there I said it, the truth hurts doesn’t it.

  77. Ashevegasjoe

    Thanks for encouraging me to do some research on President Carter. Before Carter, there was one woman among 97 federal court of appeals judges, and 5 among 400 district court judges. After he left office, there were 40 article III court judges, 11 appellate judges, and 29 district judges. Carter named five times as many women to federal benches as all of his predecessors combined! As I said, that was along time ago, and I would prefer to remain focused on my original point, that Republicans will not nominate or vote for a black person or a woman for the office of president– at least they never have and I don’t know of any “up and comers”.

  78. travelah

    Ashevegasjoe LOL …. Clinton is responsible for Bush’s appointments? Perhaps you might examine Bush’s record in Texas while you are at it.

  79. Ashevegasjoe

    I don’t need to examine his record, by your response I can tell you concede to all the points I made. Clinton wasn’t responsible for his appointments, but rather setting the bar for diverse appointments.

    Condi for President, that’s a LOL. My point was there are no current or past minorities that have ran as Republicans for president, because republicans won’t vote for them. If you can think of several please name them. All of the candidates that have attempted to run for president as a Republican are white men–period. Colin Powell might be another example, but he’s not to happy with the cuurrent leadership’s throwing him under the bus. Condi was appointed, not elected, and Bush has made a point to use minorities in high-level, high profile positions (to appear sensitive to discrimination against minorities). However, if you look at total appointments (judges), ones that are not o.k.’d by congress, he is no where close to Clinton. Why do you think black leaders refer to him as “the first black president”, I’m sure because he’s a racist?

  80. travelah

    Ashevegasjoe, your charge was that Republicans are racist and would not vote for black candidates. I named a black woman I would vote for if she ran. A short list of other names would include Lynn Swan, Michael Steele or Kenneth Blackwell. I would support Thomas Sowell if he sought public office. It is clear your charge is unfounded.

  81. Ashevegasjoe

    those are all hypotheticals, and unlikely. I was speaking of current or past nominees, and you have none. I would love to see the Republicans nominate a woman or black person for president, but they haven’t, and I haven’t heard any of your colleagues discuss it. I applaud your open-mindedness, but it is the exception and not the rule in your party– THAT is what is “clear”.

  82. nam veteran

    Bill Clinton played the race card in South Carolina and Nevada. And he is a liberal and the “first black president”? Lots of liberals are racist, they just cover it over by pointing at others. You know, that old scapegoat, the “South” and republicans. During the court ordered national busing era in the mid 1970s, the big trouble spots were Boston and Los Angeles, both very liberal cities. The model for harmony? Charlotte, NC and Louisville, Kentucky. :)

  83. Ashevegasjoe

    I’m not saying that there aren’t racists on both sides. I am saying more minorities are democrats, beacause democrats are more diverse and represent them better politically. Some of the most racist people I know live up North and in California, where there are few minorities (like the Republican party). I have always believed that the south is way more tolerant due to the numbers of minorities that choose to live here (it also has been historically Democratic). I’m also not saying Bill Clinton isn’t a shady politician, but to call him racist is absurd. I love the way you guys try to twist the thread in directions that allow you to not admit that everything I have asserted it factually true. Keep up the spin cycle.

  84. Ashevegasjoe

    also, nam vet, you’ll be glad to know the facts above were my own research, not from any bumper stickers or 880.

  85. travelah

    Ashevegasjoe, there is nothing hypothetical in this as far as Republican support for these souls. If Ms Rice chose to enter the fray she would have had considerable support from the conservative wing of the Republican party. Thomas Sowell has already convinced conservatives he is the real thing. In order to nominate a black candidate, one has to run that fits conservative criteria without considerable “doctrinal” baggage. It has been your contention tat Republicans are racist by default because a black candidate has not been nominated on the Republican ticket. By your own criterion, the Democrats are in the same boat with this year being a potential exception.

  86. Ashevegasjoe

    Since, Ms. Rice didn’t, that by deffinition is hypothetical.

    Also, eventhough not the most stable candidates, Rev.’s Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson did run in primaries for presedential nominations in the Democratic parties. And as Clinton so ridiculously pointed out, won South Carolina (Jackson, not Sharpton). My point is you guys don’t even give women and minorities a chance to run. It has, and for the foreseeable future, always will be white men. That is why you don’t get the minority vote. Also, let us not forget Geraldine Ferraro, of course, a Democrat. Democrats have been at the forefront of advancing women and minorities for thirty years, and the best response you’ve got is Condi? A non-elected official? yeah, I see your point

  87. Eli Cohen

    Mr. Travelah, Your position is indefensible. Carl Rove made abundantly clear what the Republican party is about. Guns, Gays, God, and tacit undercurrents of racism. These wedge issues are used to motivate the average southern yokel to vote for policies that favour the rich. Mr. Ashevegasjoe makes an excellent point(s)that you would do well to consider. Also, I must say you seem to argue your point as a lawyer defending a guilty client, rather than a true believer in the grand ol’ party.


  88. Nam Vet

    Mr Cohen, it is your position that is indefensible. If you see gays, guns, and racism then that is what is in your heart, not the “other” guys heart. Oh, by the way, your Hillary Clinton is toast. She’s lost 10 in a row, courtesy of husband Bill’s dirty politics. HE’S the one with the under current of racism and that is why he slimed Obama in South Carolina and Nevada by playing the race card. And Bill Clinton cannot argue any points before a judge because he has been disbarred for felony perjury. He is the guilty one. :)

  89. quotequeen

    Oh God, that men should put an enemy in their mouths to steal away their brains!
    William Shakespeare (1564 – 1616)

  90. Eli Cohen

    My Hillary Clinton? If you’re going to put a line in the water and start trolling, please stay out of my pond. Oh, and by the way, Mr. Travelah is fully capable of defending himself and his opinions and needs no help from you. (frankly sir, you lack the wit)

  91. quotequeen

    “Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo.”
    – H. G. Wells

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