It seems that never does a week or two pass without an assault in the Letters section from the vegetarian community on anyone who does not share their lifestyle. I think it is wonderful that you so strongly believe in your position. I, too, believe in my lifestyle, though I don't find it necessary to refer to those who may be different in a derogatory manner.
I sometimes wonder if the next great war will not be between the Muslims and the Jews, or the Christians and the Buddhists, but rather between the meat-eaters and the vegetarians.
I would point out to the vegetarians that, although they may not be fuzzy and warm and sit on your lap purring or deliver eggs on Easter, vegetables are also living breathing entities that need be "slaughtered" before their flesh can be eaten. And I don't see much advantage to being a vegetarian, as most that I know, and I know many, are excessively pale and overweight individuals (must be from the vegetable-based beer they consume in large quantities).
I ask only that you live your lifestyle and be happy and let me live mine — without the need to push your beliefs on me, which is in fact how all great wars are begun!
— Scott Smith
Asheville
according to my canine teeth im a carnivore’ human,
some humans are herbivores,,,
more power to ya,im gonna eat my cube steak ,those greasy porkchops,,i love 1/2 pound of bacon for breakfast,,and just leave my bucket of kfc alone ,,,heres a novel thought..you eat what you want..
and i’ll eat as i want..
your perfect everybodies like me world …doesnt exist,,
hey…. you gonna finish that hot-dog
While I agree, I wouldn’t limit it to the vegetarians. Asheville may be the “lifestyle pushers” capital of the world.
“And I don’t see much advantage to being a vegetarian, as most that I know, and I know many, are excessively pale and overweight individuals….”
Huh? Strange. Most of the vegetarians I know run the spectrum from average to scary-thin.
On the lighter side: A war between the two would be…unfair. They run in with guns, we run in with cutlery! Oh…and flame throwers. Some of us prefer our meat cooked.
But seriously. (Hehe.) I agree with Scott. Let’s all keep our hands off of each other’s plates and grocery lists, yes? If vegan or vegetarian makes you happy, that’s awesome. Be aware that I’m not converting. It doesn’t work for me.
I am a meat eater too (I tried vegetarianism for five years but didn’t do well on it.) While I don’t like anyone pushing their lifestyle on me I can definitely empathize with some of the concerns of the vegetarian community – mainly the cruel treatment and slaughter of the majority of farm animals (or really factory animals at this point.) I do the best I can by trying to eat local free-range meat but don’t always succeed. I think if the issue was focused on changing the way we raise and kill animals rather than the alienating all-or-nothing issue of being a vegetarian or not (ie; vegetarian = good, meat-eater = bad) some real change could happen in that industry. It’s a hard issue! I also know the each pound I eat in meat is made up of many more pounds of grain and gallons of water and that the earth would be better off if I became a vegetarian again – but I always end up choosing my own health and vitality first – I and many other women I know in their 3os and 40s who were vegetarians at one point thrive better when we switch to at least some animal protein. As I said these are hard issues and all-or-nothing thinking doesn’t get us closer to a real discussion.
…according to my canine teeth ….
THAT is frickn funny.
we try thanks travelah,,,
“I sometimes wonder if the next great war will not be between the Muslims and the Jews, or the Christians and the Buddhists, but rather between the meat-eaters and the vegetarians.”
That was some funny stuff, seriously I haven’t laughed that hard in awhile.
Canine teth are teeth that have evolved in most mammals mouths that eat meat in order to tear apart carcassas and such while eating. Animals that do not historically eat meat do not have canines. We, as humans, normally have 32 teeth. 2 of these are in fact canines. So this leaves me to believe that at least 1/16th of what we put in our mouths should be meat.
Furthermore, I personally think that by delicately eating things only that are good for you at all moments, you exposing yourself to health risks by not hardening your body. Kind of how your body becomes immune to antibiotics after a while. Also, the fact that if you spend all your money on expensive health food all the time, you will probably be broke all the time, which leads to stress, which leads to heart desease. That cancels out the benifits of eating expensive health food.
But I agree with the author. I dont give a crap what you eat, just dont tell me what I cant eat.
I have an appendix, but it’s not helping with raw chicken? What’s up with that?
Well said, TokyoTaos. It is a complex issue. You are not alone because many of us have extensively tried vegetarian diets, only to find that we clearly feel far better with some animal protein. Some people do well on a vegetarian diet, some don’t. The truth is, there is a happy, and sustainable medium somewhere between the sanctimonious extremism of some vegans, and someone like travelah that actually gets off on the idea of animals suffering in inhumane factory farms. It is no surprise that Glenn Beck, and Ingrid Newkirk (founder and President of PETA) have been becoming great friends as of late. Two sides of the same coin.
Supporting sustainable, local farms with humane practices, such as Hickory Nut Gap, is a great start. Eating a few less meat-based meals a week is also a great step. And a well done fish farm, such as Sunburst trout, is actually a more sustainable choice than most vegetable proteins in this region, so that is an excellent choice.
and someone like travelah that actually gets off on the idea of animals suffering in inhumane factory farms.
What complete lying moron you are.
I’m pretty sure that’s clearly against the posting guidelines there travelah. Time for you to be moderated. Good riddance.
And after all of the posts that you have made about what glee you take in it, you call me a liar for speaking the plain truth?!? Why is it that continuity of reason, even at the most fundamental levels, is so far beyond your grasp?
Quote me or live with being labeled a liar.
.. and I mean for your quotes to support the following lying dribble and not the fact I eat meat and have no respect for radical vegan bs.
and someone like travelah that actually gets off on the idea of animals suffering in inhumane factory farms.
I don’t need to quote you travelah, anyone here can just go back to other threads about meat eating if they want to see it. And I already proved, irrefutably, for a fact, that you are a liar, so it is pretty darned ironic for you to be making that accusation against me. In fact you repeatedly accused me of being a liar for over a year, and in the end, i incontrovertibly proved that it was you lying all along. How soon you forget.
After I already proved that you are a liar, and already proved that you falsely accused me of lying in the past, why on Earth would I give a hoot if you label me a liar? It goes back to continuity of reason. When I incontrovertibly proved you to be a liar, you lost all credibility. That’s how it works.
Sorry if I hit a little too close to home there, travelah. You can just go back to poking a gerbil with a stick while you watch bestiality porn if you like. Oh, and don’t forget to imagine that the Islamic gay black nationalist Marxists from Kenya are out to get you while you are at it, because we all know how titillating that is for you.
The TOS on this site only applies to certain people, those that are not friends with the MX staff or those that are deemed not cool by the MX staff.
Ive been called worse, and I doesnt stop me from posting.
“… by getting the grill up to 500 degrees and sizzzzzzling those succulent steaks and ribs. The only thing cruel is delaying my sitting to the table.” –travelah
There are actually quite a few cruel things about factory farming. PAC’ing (pounding against cement) wouuld be one of them. Hanging the animal from a chain would be another. Keeping an animal in a space barely bigger than its body would be another. No surprise that you see none of that as cruel.
It is not necessary to get off on the suffering of animals in order to eat meat occasionally.
What does my quote have to do with your lie as stated here:
and someone like travelah that actually gets off on the idea of animals suffering in inhumane factory farms.
There isn’t a durn thing cruel about grilling steaks and burgers. It looks like you struck out and must remain just another lying moron.
Sorry if I hit a little too close to home there, travelah. You can just go back to poking a gerbil with a stick while you watch bestiality porn if you like.
You are not only a lying moron but a sick one at that.
Golly travelah, let’s see… maybe because that quote was from a thread about the ethical issues in eating animals, and the cruelty often employed in the process?!? It really is funny how every time you are busted red-handed with the facts, you never have the integrity to just own up to it. You are one of the most characterless people that I have ever encountered. It is almost as funny as it is pathetic.
Oh and by the way, I do expect your comments to be moderated from now on, as you have clearly violated the posting guidelines here.
I have to say, being called a moron by a right-wing extremist fundamentalist that spends all day worrying about Marxist conspiracies and the President being a secret Islamic mole, is actually quite a compliment. And you call yourself a Christian? What a joke.
How moronic … my comment was in reply to an idiotic radical vegan thread … take a pill nd don’t forget to close your screen door.
As a long-time vegetarian, let me state that meat-eaters have tried to push their lifestyle on me continuously.
Also; can we get a fact check on how often there actually are pushy vegetarian letters printed in MX?
You really crack me up with that ongoing screen door dig, as if it was clever, but I think I’ll skip the pills. I do know how you on the laughably far right love your pills. I don’t doubt that when you are twisting your nipples in front of your favorite Rush Limbaugh poster, they ease the pain.
That word “moronic”…. I don’t think it means what you think it does.
[b]
Also; can we get a fact check on how often there actually are pushy vegetarian letters printed in MX? [/b]
just do a search of stewart david.
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My problem with vegetarians is that they try and ‘justify’ their dietary choice with bogus and or cherry-picked and/or out-of-context statistics, as Stewart David has done at least a few times here.
It’s one thing to say you choose to eat vegetarian for your own reasons, and entirely different to say it’s the “only” valid dietary choice, as I personally read on the MX far too often.
And I say that as a former vegan/vegetarian of almost ten years, if that lends any context.
Also, in my own experience, i’ve never known a strict vegan to have any realistic stamina or strength.
I have been a non-pushy vegetarian for about 35 years. I will turn 60 soon, and am in excellent health. I suspect that for every “pushy” vegetarian, there are ten like myself who quietly “just do it”.
I am a vegetarian for the same reason that I dry my clothes on a clothesline and drive a small car and turn my thermostat down at night. That is, I believe that, the way things are going on the planet, it would be best for us humans (6 billion and growing) to lessen our destructive footprint as much as possible. Eating less meat is an easy way to do that.
All great ideas are ridiculed before they are accepted as obvious.
as some of you longer residents of asheville area may know,,,,im a mix breed cherokee white guy…as a child a full set of extra teeth were present…i had extra canines which were present till a dentist at bchd pulled them years ago i looked like a human chainsaw,with the teeth i had i could have feasted on dinosaurs
my great grandpa ,a full blood,,wouldnt eat dinner unless there was wild game being served..
bear deer squirrel wild birds,..we in essence were part of the food chain ,now were all educated space-age nuclear family types that live with our feelings on our shoulder,,we as a nation seem to find things to whine about,,,
heres what i know for sure,,vegatables are good i use them regularly,,
o yeh i also remember what my ole grandpappy told…dont believe nothing you hear,
and only half of what you see…
with cudos to the original author of that advice..you know what,im kinda lost in the jeffs around here ..there on every page,,,whos who
If you scroll down this thread fast enough, it looks like travelah’s just talking to himself.
Yes, if you go really fast …
Just to stay on topic. I am desperately trying to eat less meat. Mostly red meat. I don’t like it but Dr. orders. My blood type relies on copious quantities of protein. Its hard but I want to live to see 50. That being said,
WILL YOU LITTLE CHILDREN BEHAVE! Holy sh**! what a bunch of babies. Really, name calling???! It really shows your intellect or lack thereof.
I suspect the Democrats had something to do with it.
/tongue in cheek
I suspect the Democrats had something to do with it.
/tongue in cheek
[b]WILL YOU LITTLE CHILDREN BEHAVE! Holy sh**! what a bunch of babies. Really, name calling???! It really shows your intellect or lack thereof. [/b]
most contradictory post ever?
i turned 50 this past july it aint all that
“Also, in my own experience, i’ve never known a strict vegan to have any realistic stamina or strength.”
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One of the world’s greatest athletes credits veganism for the best performance of his career.
http://www.earthsave.org/lifestyle/carllewis.htm
I’ve heard of people thriving on a vegan diet. I’ve also known people like my sister, who were having serious health problems as a vegan, that cleared right up when they introduced fish and eggs into their diet. It seems to depend on the individual. For those of you who thrive on a vegan diet, more power to you. For those of us that don’t do well on a vegan diet, we just ask for the same respect for our choice. Encouraging sustainable, humane farming practices is good for us all.
Concerning cholesterol, the science linking saturated fat to heart disease is generally bogus. The studies include people who eat fast food on a regular basis. Fast food consists of buckets full of corn syrup filled sweet tea and soda, processed foods, and deep-fried french fries full of hydrogenated oils, which are a sure path to a heart attack.
If you want to lower your cholesterol, eat more eggs, and eat less simple carbohydrates. Everyone I know who has tried it has dramatically lowered their cholesterol. Most recently, a local friend who is a farmer did it, with dramatic results. It worked amazingly for me as well. If you do that for three months then have your cholesterol retested, you will be amazed by the results if it works for you as well as it has worked for everyone that I know who has tried it.
“Also, in my own experience, i’ve never known a strict vegan to have any realistic stamina or strength.”
We’ve never met, have we? :) I can bench just about twice my weight – 320 pounds. I can chop wood non-stop for 8 hours. I’ve been a vegan since 1999, and was a vegetarian 7 years before that. I am constantly told I look between 30 and 32. I’m 40. You can also just google “vegan athlete” and get a ton of information.
Also, as a veg*an since 1992, I have constantly been harassed by meat eaters when we all go out to eat. I never start the conversation – ever.
I’ve only seen a pushy veg*an *once* in all my years. 1994. She was embarrassing. But I’ve been harassed more times than I can possibly count.
[i]“Also, in my own experience, i’ve never known a strict vegan to have any realistic stamina or strength.”[/i]
——
[b]One of the world’s greatest athletes credits veganism for the best performance of his career.
http://www.earthsave.org/lifestyle/carllewis.htm [/b]
You know Carl Lewis?
Yes, there are actually a few very notable “Vegan” athletes, but from what i can tell, most all take in large quantities of soy-protein-powder drinks, which are incredibly unhealthy in the long run. Soy Protein Isolate and other such products are not good replacements for real food.
In addition, the performance enhancing drugs (pseudoephedrine, ephedrine, and phenylpropanolamine, ) lewis was known to take weren’t exactly Vegan.
A 320 pound bench press is very impressive. 315 was my highest. I’m surprised that you would put two little 2.5 pound weights on the end of a 45 pound bar with three 45 pound weights on each side. It is amazing that a few rare vegans such as you seem to thrive like that, while others, such as John Robbins and his son, look like they are on the brink of starvation.
It does seem that some people may thrive on a vegan diet, but clearly others do not. More power to you if it works for you. I have some serious health issues now, and I find that I do much better with some animal protein in my diet.
I think people people here are largely referring to Stewart when they are talking about pushy vegans. I can’t really imagine meat eaters showing up to boycott a small production vegan cookbook at Malaprops, so there really is no comparison.
I think pff makes a good point that there are very serious long term health risks with eating unfermented soy protein because it blocks the body’s ability to absorb nutrients, has more female hormones per serving than birth control pills, and is potentially carcinogenic. Soy production also has many serious environmental issues.
entopticon – how dare you make a insightful, intelligent comment! Aren’t we supposed to be flaming each other and hurling personal insults around? ;)
I’m kidding people! Kidding! :)
in my experience, people become vegan/vegetarian after being raised on a typical american diet of unhealthy, over-processed food in large quantities. So it is of little surprise that they find eating more vegetables, fruits, and ‘lighter’ food makes them feel ‘better’, as seems to be the case with Carl Lewis, after reading up on him today.
He describes his previous diet as being very, very poor. So it isn;t surprising that he felt better after eating more fresh food. But he still describes his diet as being full of processed ‘food’ like boca burgers and tofu, so obviously he has quite a ways to go in terms of a truly healthy diet-ie, one that stays away from processed food of any kind.
Vegetarian is certainly ‘healthier’ than mcdonalds and cheetos, but it is telling that this is the litmus test for so many veg’n types.
And i suspect it is why there are so many in the asheville area who are “Beyond Vegan”-ie people who have moved passed the unnatural ‘rules’ of a traditional vegetarian diet to embrace whole foods of all kinds for better health.
Just came across this exceptional article by Nicolette Hahn Niman called Avoiding Factory Farmed Foods: An Eater’s Guide: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nicolette-hahn-niman/avoiding-factory-farm-foo_b_353525.html
She is a vegetarian that worked as a environmental lawyer for Robert F Kennedy. Surprisingly, she married the cattle rancher and meat company head Bill Niman, who has actually done great things for sustainable alternatives to factory farming.
Most of the steps she suggests are pretty straightforward, like doing your homework on what you buy, eating less meat, and expecting to pay a bit more for good meat.
She wrote a recent book called Righteous Porkchop: Finding a Life and Good Food Beyond Factory Farms: http://www.amazon.com/Righteous-Porkchop-Finding-Beyond-Factory/dp/0061466492
Michael Pollan had this to say about it: “Righteous Porkchop is a searing, and utterly convincing, indictment of modern meat production. The book also brims with hope and charts a practical (and even beautiful) path out of the jungle.”