Hippies beware: Council member Carl Mumpower was not the only official to observe drug activity at the recent Ratdog concert in the Asheville Civic Center.
There were also city police present at the concert, and on Monday, the Asheville Police Department released the tally of arrests made and drugs seized at the jam-band event Mumpower said “smelled like an Amsterdam hash bar.”
In addition to numerous paraphernalia charges, 170 hits of LSD and $1,168 were seized.
According to the APD’s e-mail, nine people between the ages of 23 and 43 were nabbed, six of those for possession of a controlled substance and possession of drug paraphernalia.
Other charges include trafficking in LSD, felony marijuana possession, resisting arrest and disorderly conduct.
— Brian Postelle, staff writer
Again, what is the context of this number?
Is this high (pardon the pun)?
Do police go to, say Clint Black concerts?
Do they keep stats on the number of drunk driving arrests at concerts?
A little reporting here guys, please.
They made these arrests, is that a bad thing? I’m not sure what people are on about.
– Ashevillein
Those are valid questions. Pardon our move to internet posts. Some of these are researched and based on personal interviews, while others are intended to serve as pure, quick relaying of information as it lands in our inbox. This post would not warrant the effort for our print edition, and probably would not be included online were it not for two things:
1. The ongoing Carl Mumpower saga
And:
2. The fact that the APD decided to release the info, unsolicited, to area media outlets.
Meanwhile, we’re still figuring out what is worthy of an online post (even if it is only under-researched punctuation to earlier entries.)
I understand, I was just trying to spur some thought behind such postings.
This is the problem print faces, and has faced, throughout the web era, the “do we want to put this out under our name” bugaboo.
The solutions are not pretty, either
a. hire a lot more editors and make sure everything is up to standards
or
b. throw the stuff out there and see what happens
both have their problems, as this post points out.
Thank you for responding.
I like the idea of posts that aren’t themselves a full research news report. That’s the immediacy of blogs (though, not always their nature – some bloggers ‘report’ when MountainX would do a print story). But, like Brian points out, it strengthens context, thus allowing placing what is news in a stream of other continuously unfolding events. Learning facts weeks, even days later gives that fickle public and it’s desire for edutainment a chance to forget the hows and whys.
I also believe that blogging responsibly is just as important as printing stories responsibly. I’m not sure exactly how a media company fits their respective blogs into the world of news reporting, but i am glad to see MountainX try – even if they struggle a bit and sometimes err on the side of under-reporting.
I think the whole blog thing reminds us that a media company as a whole is in fact a sum of its parts and not the voice of one super-editor or whatever.
I agree with you Zen, but there are certain levels of “responsibility,” for example, a blogger who completely misses something can just ignore it and slink off into the blogosphere if the error be egregious enough. The Mountain Express, on the other hand has a reputation, physical property, a marketing plan and (I assume) investors who expect a return on investment, which would preclude going out on a limb which may cause lawsuits.
Of course I am glad the MtX is doing this, and I applaud the efforts of that other paper in this town too.
We are all just feeling our ways, right?
Still, if web posts are the future, who will lend the context of which I asked in the first post?
The world still needs editors and reporters.
You’re right, Ashevillein, especially when it comes to numbers. Blogs can be sloppy with context, and there’s a problem – at least if we look at it as ‘news.’ I think perhaps the pendulum is swinging to the other side of that ’60s if-it’s-in-print-it-must-be-true. I also think, because of the dialog of the readers, that it’s important that readers be as careful consumers as we are when we’re counting calories.
It’s good that you called for context as part of that dialog and that – not the fact that there are investors with their own agendas – is what gives even ‘official blogs’ an extra amount of freedom to report incompletely. Our comments are now a part of the ongoing reporting. And even though we’ve begun discussing the theory of blogging, no one has yet given your original question a weight. It may take time.
I can speak for Xpress’ investors here by saying that Xpress’ mission is to promote a civic dialogue among thoughtful residents/citizens, and thereby promote a better democracy and healthier community.
Context is crucial, and Ashevillein’s call for context is, in my opinion, spot on.
While it’s true that any media operation has to be careful of lawsuits — in this particular coverage, libel or privacy invasion are not the main concerns.
As Brian Postelle noted, his original entry was a blog, and not print journalism — and so represented fairly undigested data, presented without much reflection.
It’s reassuring to see savvy, thoughtful readers/users/fellow community members getting involved here — and questioning the media.
I agree with Ashevillein that the world still needs reporters and editors … all the more with the information revolution. Otherwise we’ll be swamped by noise, and never have a contextual map of where we drowned.
“They made these arrests, is that a bad thing? I’m not sure what people are on about.”
Nine people have had their lives ruined, or at least severely negatively impacted, for engaging in victimless commerce. Yes, this is a bad thing.
Nine people took part in an illegal activity. I don’t agree with a lot of drug laws, but they are still illegal. I’m willing to bet they knew what they were doing was illegal, also. So nuts on them for doing it.
The legality of an action has absolutely jack-all to do with the morality of an action. It might not have been the wisest action to sell those drugs at that show, just as it might not be the wisest action to walk down certain streets in certain cities if you’re alone and its night.
Blaming the drug dealer for what happened to him at the show is akin to blaming the victim of a mugging in a bad part of town. Both may have been engaged in unwise (if harmless) behavior, but the blame should squarely rest on the shoulders of the thugs in both scenarios. That the thugs who attacked the dealers had badges is irrelevent. What the cops did was wrong.
Was it their job to do these things? Certainly. Changes nothing. Many people are employed to rob and kill people. Doesn’t make it right.
You are comparing the police (which I would say 90% is there to enforce the thing that is “morally right”) with people that are employed to rob and kill?
Reread my post. I said I don’t agree with a lot of drug laws. Including these. But, unlike these nine people, I’m smart enough to know where and when to do drugs (I actually don’t do drugs, but that shouldn’t get in the way of this argument).
There’s a time and a place for everything, including drug use. Maybe out in public at an event with police standing right outside the place isn’t one of them.
I think they were using the same logic you were using in comparing police officers to hired killers.
I agree they used poor judgment, just as people who frequent places where they are likely to get mugged show poor judgment.
Am I comparing cops to thieves and murderers? Yes. I’ll stop when they stop killing innocent people and robbing them. Does every cop do this? Of course not. But the thefts keeping happening. The murders keep happening, and those responsible are usually not punished. It may be only be a minority who commit such actions, but all are complicit.
And even those who do not explicitly rob and kill do commit thuggish behavior against those who are engaging in victimless commerce, like what happened here.
I’m glad that I’m not the one speaking in broad generalizations, or else someone might think I am a complete freakin’ idiot. Tell me your opinions on minorities and other religions, Johnny.
Well, I think all Belgian-Americans are lazy and smell of oranges, and all Jains secretly drink the blood of ocelots. Is that what you wanted to hear?
I know there are good people in law enforcement. Hell, by father is an assistant DA (and before you ask, by relationship with my father is fine, thanks, so this isn’t some manifestation of daddy-issues.) But there are “good people” in all sorts of evil institutions, and it should not blind to the fact that the institutions are evils and need to be torn down.
If you’re going to take the risk of engaging in an illegal activity then you have to accept responsibility and consequences if you are busted. I do it everyday when I’m cruising to work late at 70mph. Do I know I’m breaking the law? Yes. Do I like the fact that the speed limit is 50? No. Do I care enough to try to change it? Apparently not. Am I going to be mad at the cop when he pulls me over and writes me a ticket? No, because it was my fault, not his. Am I going to have a bad day and be mad at myself for being stupid? Yeah, sure am.
Wake up people. It’s easy to sit around and complain about how life isn’t fair and ‘the man’ is holding you down. The simple fact of the matter however is that very few people are willing to do a damn thing to try and make a change. (probably because they’re all too stoned.)
If the laws here (in this City, this State or this Country) are not conducive to your lifestyle and you’re unwilling to try and make a change, the other option for you is to get up and move somewhere that doesn’t have laws that hinder your lifestyle.
Yeah Johnny! Fight the power! Now, when you get done reading the backs of ‘;80s punk rock albums for your politics, join me in the real, rational world where “tearing down the system” is a laughable concept.
I’m glad you’re laughing. Its healthy. And I read Rothbard and Von Mises for my politics (with a dash of Proudon), not punk bands. Of course where I get my views is irrelevant. Merely accepting a society that increasingly resembles a third-rate scifi dystopian novel deems pretty darned laughable to me. This state and the servile society that sustains it (how’s that for alliteration, huh? huh?) are neither reformable, nor redeemable. They must be replaced with something better.
You are probably the same time of person who laughed about Timothy McVeigh and Randy Weaver all those years ago. You can only go so far “left of center” before you end up “right of center” again.
Tell me how that whole replacing the government thing works out for you, please. More people in America care about “American Idol” than they do about Rothbard, Von Mises, and Proudon. They can’t be bothered with your highbrow politics.
Here’s some free advice, continue going on about them, but instead of raging against the machine on the internet, do them in the kitchen of the next kegger you go to, because then you’ll have become as laughable of a cliche as the hippies busted with acid at the Ratdog show.
(in case noone noticed, I just brought the argument full circle)
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnd scene.
I am intrigued at this mental picture you’ve built up about me. What do you think I do? What do you think I “am”, politically and socially?
And no, I don’t find the plight of those murdered by the government particularly funny.
I actually have no mental picture of you, nor do I care what you do. I just find you to be very stereotypical. “Smash the government” “all cops are killers”.
That’s not something that your typical intellectual says. It sounds more like the ramblings of your typical desktop pundit to me.
I never claimed to be an intellectual. I am actually unsure as to actually who an intellectual is. Presumably university professors are among those considered intellectuals. If so, the intellectuals of the Von Mises Institute would consider me a light-wieght, radically speaking. Of course, you may not consider them “typical” intellectials. What typical intellectuals do you read and listen to, that confirm your feelings that the police protect you and the government is your friend?
Where did I say that the police protect me and that the government is my friend? I never claimed that. I merely stated that you are stupid for having such a simplistic view of police and government. Call me crazy, but I’m glad for a few things the government has done, like the Interstate Highway system, The US Postal Service, or heck, even rural electrification.
But internet anarchists like yourself would have no part of that, huh?
Making broad generalizations which compare arrested drug-dealers to murder and mugging victims is a little much, and the hyperbole overshadows a perfectly valid point, which is that these people’s lives were badly effected for committing victimless crimes. Clearly somethings need to be changed, but I think the answers lie within the context of our current society, not in “tearing it down”. This is inherently an impractical solution. However, talking about what is conceptually wrong (and should be changed) with society and government as it exists today is in no way “laughable”. If someone doesn’t suggest the difficult, unlikely, or even impractical, then nothing will change.
Nice excahnge, if a bit testy.
Back to the actual point made in the first post…I do agree that there is more context needed. It is intersting to note thta LSD was the drug given the highest profile. I would love to have seen a complete sampling of arrests at other shows/events. How many brawls happened at, say, hockey games?
And who is standing up for the poor defenseless urinal that was “threatened” by some dude at Ratdog, according to Mr. Mumpower? That urinal has a hard ehough life already!
ps Who cares where you “get” your politics from. Isn’t the point what you DO with them?
Jesus Christ, Jason, give it a rest man. Cops kill people, dude. THey kill innocent peole, fairly regularly, not because they are evil, or brainwashed, or carrying out the orders of a distopian government, but because of prejudices, jumpy nerves and irrational fears that are ingrained in the fabric of our society. People who want to improve that fabric of society aren’t neccesarily “getting their politics from eighties punk rock albums”. You sound like the nineteenth century politicians who got their bloomers in a bunch over “bomb-throwing anarchists”. Jeez, someone disses cops and you’re ready to arrest Emma Goldman again.
Now go on, tell me how all nineteenth century politicians were men and bloomers were designed for women. GO on. DO it.
I actually went to just about every Asheville Smoke/Asheville Aces hockey game that there ever was at the Civic Center, and I can count the fights I personally witnessed on one hand.
I’m not saying they never happened, I’m just saying that I never saw them. I’d actually be interested in seeing that too.
Now, back to my original argument, I never said that the drug laws were fair, nor did I ever say that cops were right 100% of the time. I just said that it was stupid and irresponsible to make such broad statements about police. How this turned into me being painted as the “OMG COPS ARE #1” guy I’ll never know, but my original point stands.
I’m just saying that if this Johnny guy is like a lot of people I know; pretty well read and idealistic people who have a great grasp of the way things should be, but they have no idea about the way things are and why those two things more often than not tend to be mutually exclusive in this world.
Why are none of my posts showing up on the page?
Thank you.
This got threadjacked pretty bad, it happens, and again, it points out what zen and I were discussing last night.
I am interested in the argument here, as to the police and their place in society.
Society is an agreement amongst people, sort of a “social contract”, isn’t it? One of the facets of that contract are laws, many of which are immoral, or just plain inhuman. We follow these laws because we need to be in this society in order to pursue our way of life, or in some cases, just to survive. One of the needs of this society is an effective force of people engaged in enforcing the laws. In the case of those people (the Police), we as a society need to be very careful about what the jobs of those people are, lest we fall into a “police state” (which some maintain we are).
Police should have no rights above and beyond those of an ordinary citizen; rights given to police above and beyond the citizens rights pretty much follows the definition of a police state. I think that many police officers think that the badge and gun give them certain rights that citizens do not have. Most police are honorable citizens, and walk a tight rope every day in the struggle to do their job and preserve the rights of citizens. However, if a policeman goes bad, the police gather round and stonewall any investigation, as though outing this bad cop will affect them all. I do not understand this, but I have noticed that officers hate IAD and the job they do. As the Latin satirist Juvenal asked, “Who will watch the watchers themselves?” Someone may need to…
Now, as to laws, if you don’t like them, work to change them. Write your elected officials. Run for office. Blog.
Also, Ethan. I liked your post, it made me laugh. Out loud even.
I agree with you that cops do wrong occasionally, but it’s unfair to generalize about the police as a whole. I once got into a car accident with a female driver, but it wouldn’t be fair for me to run around and say “women are horrible drivers”, would it?
By and large, the police in America are no more “killers” than you or I.
Also, everyone who replies to this, please reread my posts. I am not the police’s biggest fan. I was merely wondering why it was ok to make a broad generalization, no matter how good the point Johnny was making (although, if you ask me, the whole “smash the system, man” argument is sort of absurd).
As far as getting my panties in a wad over anarchists, I just don’t think it’s a practical realistic train of thought, because man, by nature or nurture I’m not sure, is naturally are jerks who would hurt you if you were smaller to get what they need. But that’s another conversation.
Good talk everyone. We should do this over liquor drinks sometime.
“They made these arrests, is that a bad thing? I’m not sure what people are on about.” -Bugg
Well, I guess people are on about the fact that a peaceful event hosted by a dying rock and roll legacy was the scene for such victimization. Of course there is going to be LSD and Pot at a concert hosted by the Bob weir of the Grateful Dead. But, what is the reasoning behind targeting and arresting people for LSD and POT? ($) Especially, when just down the street local citizens of asheville (not nomadic hippies) are engaging in “drug activity” involving Meth,Crack and Heroin. These drugs are far more burdensome on our society. You see nobody gives the ole fellatio for a dime bag and a couple hits of acid…not anymore at least. I do not agree with our drug laws and there is nothing much I can do about it. However, the rotten blue menace should at least get its priorities straight.
If you break the law, you get arrested. I don’t like the fact that these people got arrested for a victimless crime, but it is the law.
Someone earlier in this thread made the point that they know that they are breaking the law when they speed on the way to work, and that they aren’t surprised when they get a ticket. It’s the same thing.
Just because the people being arrested (the people going to the concert) are more sympathetic to you than the people who are upholding the law (the police) doesn’t make it any less of a crime.
My advice: stop bitching about it and vote libertarian.
Jason, I voted for and supported the LP for years. It hasn’t helped. It is disgusting to see so many well-meaning people take so much time, effort, and creativity and just flush it away on trying to change a system that:
a) has a vested interest in not being changed
b) would be immoral even if it worked perfectly
So is this when you go into your “smash the system, man!” spiel?
I agree that our system of government is fundamentally broken, but I have no idea how it should be or even if it could be changed/repaired.
The moment that someone goes into the “smash the system” it takes away any credence from your aforementioned well-meaning, creative people that they might have built up from the rest of “mainstream” America. Like it or not, those are the hearts and minds that you need to change.
Maybe people don’t want change. Maybe they are content to live in this world of pseudo-representative government and overly sexualized 15 year olds. That’s the scary part.
Well that and that there is no apparent cure for male pattern baldness.
Don’t forget option #2: Move
I didn’t want to say that, I thought that it might make me seem like a caustic redneck.
The obvious if often overlooked corollary to the adage “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” is “If it is broke, you must fix it.” Even you agree the current system is fundamentally broken. I don’t have to smash anything. In terms of providing freedom, peace, justice, and prosperity for the people, this system is already smashed.
I have no great desire to persuade Mr. & Mrs. Mainstream America of the benefits of anarchism. The tactic of rational evangelism has shown to have an extremely limited effectiveness. I prefer to help build alternative institutions and ways of living. But thanks for the advice :)
As to the “love it or leave it” sentiment, I reject your authority over me, as well as the authority of any bogus “social contract” (What do you call a contract that you don’t sign, that you don’t explicitly agree to, and no one knows the exact wording of? Well, you don’t call it a contract.) You don’t like my unwillingness to play your ridiculous and deadly game of make-believe? _You_ move.
I believe that I own land here, which technically gives me more rights than you. That is why I won’t move.
Also, build “alternative institutions” and make Kool-Aid as much as you want, just don’t be mad when noone shows up to drink it.
You believe? Isn’t that something you should really know one way or the other? And, hypothetically, if I was on your land, and you asked me to move, then I would move. I’d probably even say goodbye and wish you well. But I’m not on your land. Therefore you have no right to tell me to move (which, for the sake of clarity, I acknowledge you did not actually do.)
That was a joke, chuckles.
Like I said, I’m glad you’re laughing. Its healthy.
And like I said, you’re a tool whom I don’t respect.
No Jason, you are a tool. Like supporting the libertarian party is gonna do shit. “Maybe they are content to live in this world of pseudo-representative government”
Jason…drink osme tea, man. Drink a nice cupof tea, then look at the assinine garbage you write. Think “Wait, where did I get my politics?”. Think back to what they taught you at Asheville High. THink, “What would I think if I lived osmehwere else? What if I had different expewriences? What if I didn’t have htis sweet goatee?” THink about what you are saying, and think “Do I really know anything baout this? Or am I only trying to post glib, sarcastic statements in the hopes that the Xpress will take me on full-time and I won’t have to work at a coffee shop anymore?” THen think, “Does my desire for this really give me the right to dis everybody else?”
Jus thtink bout it man…THen move somewhere else, and think about it more.
Well then, there is very little point in continuing this conversation, is there?
Johnny- I suppose not.
Ethan- Actually, I don’t work in a coffee shop, and while I do want to write professionally, I’ll be damned if I phrase my comments so that anyone will hire me. I’m a tad insulted that you would suggest such a thing.
Also, watch the typos.