Census questions hit some the wrong way

A little-known household survey distributed by the federal government as part of its Decennial Census Program has riled some Asheville residents with its probing questions.

The big census count conducted every 10 years, with the next coming in 2010, aims to collect data on all U.S. households. The short-form version that most people receive includes seven questions, takes about 10 minutes to complete and is used by the government primarily to determine how many representatives in the U.S. Congress each state receives. There’s a long-form version that fewer people receive and takes about 40 minutes to fill out.

In an attempt to collect more current information, the government in 1996 started sending that long-form survey to a small number of Americans every year. It’s called the American Community Survey, and about three million people receive it. About 1,400 people in Buncombe County received the survey in 2006, the latest year for which numbers are available, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

In Asheville, the probing questions on that survey have rubbed some people the wrong way.

“By filling this out, we’re just opening ourselves up to the government getting into our homes, telling us how to raise our kids, how to spend our money, what kinds of foods to eat,” said Carl Gittings of Asheville, who received the questionnaire last month. “It’s just a scary thing. I think people should just throw it in the trash.”

The survey asks for the name, age, race, date of birth and ethnicity of every person living in the home. It contains questions about the home (“Which FUEL is used MOST for heating this house, apartment, or mobile home?” “How much is the regular monthly mortgage payment on THIS property?”) There are also detailed personal questions about education, work, income and health (“Because of a physical, mental, or emotional condition, does this person have serious difficulty concentrating, remembering, or making decisions?” “How many times has this person been married?”)

Gittings said he sees the questionnaire as just another form of government intrusion. “I just think that over the past couple of years, our government is wanting into more and more facets of our lives where they have absolutely no business.”

Gittings’ wife, Lisa Marie Gittings, said she was put off by a statement on the questionnaire’s cover that “says your response is required by law.” Paging through the document, she saw that “they wanted full names and birth dates and that was really intrusive, I thought, because I thought the point of the census was to be anonymous,” she said. Gittings started a blog to chronicle what she considers harassment by government agencies, including the U.S. Census Bureau.

For its part, the government stresses that it protects the privacy of the information collected and doesn’t share the specific answers with police or other regulatory agencies. “We do make confidentiality our highest priority. Everybody at the Census Bureau is sworn by law to protect that information,” spokeswoman Shelly Lowe said.

The information that’s gathered is critical because it helps determine how approximately $300 billion in federal and state funding is dispersed, Lowe said. For example, answers to questions about income and housing are summarized and used by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development to assess the need for housing assistance for elderly, handicapped and low-income residents. Local governments and transportation experts use information for planning programs and making decisions on road-building projects.

“It may seem like an interesting assortment of questions, but they’re all tied to programs,” Lowe said.

Are residents required by law to fill out the survey? That’s true, according to Lowe, who said census workers will follow up with a small number of people with mailings, a phone call and a personal visit in an attempt to encourage people to fill out the forms. “But the real priority is not tracking down people. We really work hard to educate people as to why it’s important for them to respond.” Lowe said the Census Bureau has about a 97 percent response rate to the American Community Survey.

Lisa Marie Gittings says she’s not planning to fill out the survey, “but that may change depending on how many times they come to my door.”

The census provides information about the American Community Survey here and a detailed Q&A here.

Go to the Xpress Files and click here to download a PDF of the American Community Survey.

Jason Sandford, multimedia editor

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106 thoughts on “Census questions hit some the wrong way

  1. I’ve always found it humorous that gov. documents ask for ‘race’ when there is no such thing. As if “White” or “Black” is a race? Do you put “Yellow” if you are Asian? How about blue? Or Aryan? Southern Appalachian

  2. You do not have to answer these questions.

    You can tell the federal government your name, age, address and number in household and you will have fulfilled the intent of the census.

    Beyond that, tell the government to go play in traffic.

  3. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    WARNING WILL ROBINSON!
    NOTICE HOW MS LOWE, THE GODVERMENT LACKEY NEVER QUOTED ANY SPECFIC LAW MANDATTING PARTICIPATION IN THE CENSUS.THIS IS THE SAME LINE GODVERMENT USES WHEN ITS TELLS YOU THAT YOU MUST VACCINATE YOUR CHILDREN WITH MERCUREY LADDEN VACCINES, NO LAW EXISTS WHICH MANDATES VACCINATION, IT CANT EXIST, AS IT WOULD BE PATENTLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
    DID I SAY GOVERNEMENT… THERE IS NO GOVERNMENT NOR HAS THERE BEEN SINCE 1933!!!!
    GODVERMENT IS COMPRSIED OF INTERLOCKING CORPORATE TRUSTS CREATED WHEN THE UNITED STATES GODVERMENT WENT INSOLVENT IN APRIL OF 1933.
    DON’T BELIVEVE ME???? BEHOLD HERE IS YOUR GOVERNMENT!
    CLICK ON THE LINK AND SCROLL DOWN TO SEE WHO YOUR GOVERNMENT REALLY IS http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/government/corporate_u_s/news.php?q=1206566557

  4. Jon Elliston

    Hi folks,

    Please refrain from posting in all caps.

    Thank you,

    Jon Elliston
    Managing Editor

  5. kat

    for this discussion, the relevant part of the law regarding not answering is:
    “TITLE 13–CENSUS CHAPTER 7–OFFENSES AND PENALTIES SUBCHAPTER II–OTHER PERSONS
    Sec. 221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers
    (a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.
    (b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in
    such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.
    (c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.”

    So, basically, if you don’t respond and they catch you, you could be fined a maximum of $100, but if you give “willingly false” information, the fine goes up to $500. Take that as you will :-).

  6. All caps are a violation of netiquette, which is actually just plain courtesy and commonsense.

    From the Wikipedia:

    “…Common rules … such as avoiding flamewars and spam are constant across most mediums and communities. Another rule is to avoid typing in ALL CAPS, which is considered shouting or yelling. …”

    read the full article at:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette

    In short, what Jon said.

  7. Gordon Smith

    The census does provide good short-term jobs for folks. I worked the 2000 Census while in grad school and got to go to corners of Jackson County where they hadn’t seen a stranger drive up the road in years.

    The census is an important tool in distributing federal dollars, and it’s written into the Constitution.

    Don’t answer stuff if you don’t want to, but it makes a big difference if you do.

  8. ncain

    If the mentally ill stop posting in all caps how will I know which comments to skip?

  9. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    ncain why dont you click the link I provided and srcoll down to the Dun and Bradstreet entries, as you might find out it is you sir that are mentaly ill

  10. Dionysis

    When a government representative makes a statement like this: ” “We do make confidentiality our highest priority”, it simply means that their highest priority is keeping the amount of snooping, data-collecting and surveillance by the government ‘confidential’ from the American public. For example:

    “The Federal Bureau of Investigation has been routinely monitoring the e-mails, instant messages and cell phone calls of suspects across the United States — and has done so, in many cases, without the approval of a court…

    Documents released under the Freedom of Information Act and given to the Washington Post…show that the FBI’s massive dragnet, connected to the backends of telecommunications carriers, “allows authorized FBI agents and analysts, with point-and-click ease, to receive e-mails, instant messages, cellphone calls and other communications that tell them not only what a suspect is saying, but where he is and where he has been…

    But agents don’t need a court order to track to track the senders and recipients names, or how long calls or email exchanges lasted. These can be obtained simply by showing it’s “relevant” to a probe…

    Last week, the American Civil Liberties Union released letters showing that the Pentagon is using the FBI to skirt legal restrictions on domestic surveillance…

    Documents show the FBI has obtained the private records of Americans’ Internet service providers, financial institutions and telephone companies, for the military, according to more than 1,000 Pentagon documents reviewed by the ACLU — also using National Security Letters, without a court order.

    The new revelations show definitively that telecommunications companies can transfer “with the click of a mouse, instantly transfer key data along a computer circuit to an FBI technology office in Quantico” upon request.”

    http://rawstory.com/news/2008/FBI_linked_to_national_eavesdropping_program_0408.html

  11. Rob Close

    so do you HAVE to answer all the questions?

    Gordon says no to “stuff”. Tim says just the basics. But Kat’s quote says you better not fail to answer “any of the questions” (then goes into vagueness, might just be any of the questions in certain sections?)

  12. ncain

    Dr. Antineoconus,

    I did look at the link. It made me realize I am totally sane. Thanks for making me feel better about myself.

  13. Gordon wrote: Don’t answer stuff if you don’t want to, but it makes a big difference if you do.”

    The purpose of the census is to count heads; as you indicated. That’s all they need: a head count. None of the other intrusive questions are required to fulfill that purpose.

    I believe in transparency for government and opacity for the individual.

  14. Lisa

    I think some people missed something, this is NOT the census, that is in 2010. This is a totally different survey, and is called the ACS or American Community Survey.

    I have no problem doing the census. I understand why it is needed and why we should do it. But asking me how long it takes me to get to and from work, and what times I leave and return, if anyone is home during the days, how many work days I missed, how much my bills are, what types of assistance I may have gotten and how much, what my income was, when was the last time I got married, and who cares for my children, is all a little too much for me. Can you imagine how easy it would be to break into someone’s home with that information? Or how easy it would be to double check with the IRS and get audited b/c you got some numbers wrong?

    According to the attached paperwork, you are required to fill out ALL portions of the survey or are subject to being fined. This includes race, ethnic background, and ancestries.

  15. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Attention Kat
    On March 28, 2000, US District Judge Melinda Harmon has granted a temporary restraining order against prosecution of any American who chooses not to answer questions other than the number of people living at their address. So at this point in time you are fully within your legal rights to refuse to answer any question except for the number of people in your home. You do not have to give your name, your ethnicity, your gender, your sexual orientation, or even whether or not you are a legal resident or citizen, or even whether you legally reside at the address

  16. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    As far as I know rhe 5th amendment is still in effect.What the sheep people dont know is that US title code applies only to Federal Employees domiciled in D.C. Title 13 is not positive law with enacting regulations.Again governemnt cant compell you to do anything http://www.lizmichael.com/census.htm

  17. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Ncain
    When I supplied the hyperlink as proof no lawful government exists, I can see it must have been way over your head. The entire interlocking matrix of government, are corporations listed on Dun and Bradstreet, no lawful constitutional offices exist, nor has existed, since 1933.

    This might be over your head, but Ill try this again as proof of my point.

    North Carolina G.S.Statue 11.11 mandates that the article 6 section 7 North Carolina constitutional oath is to be taken before any other oath. None of your government officials have this oath, therefore they are not occupying offices, they can’t take the oath, they are employee’s of a corporation, as example there are NO Judges in North Carolina, they don’t have the proper oath.

    It is you who are not sane ncain; you’ve been serving employees of corporations and not real constitutional officers. You can’t be an employee of a corporation and a government officer at the same time, Article 6 section 9 of the NC constitution forbids dual office holding.

    Forms of Official and Other Oaths.
    § 11 11. Oaths of sundry persons; forms.
    The oaths of office to be taken by the several persons hereafter named shall be in the words following the names of said persons respectively, after taking the separate oath required by Article VI, Section 7 of the Constitution of North Carolina:

    Don’t believe me, try and pull this oath on any government official, Van Duncan is the only one who has an office, your so called officials are not bonded as required either. Happy hunting ncain, hope you don’t lose what’s left of you tenuous sanity.

    Sec. 7. Oath.
    Before entering upon the duties of an office, a person elected or appointed to the office shall take and subscribe the following oath:
    “I, ………………………, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and maintain the Constitution and laws of the United States, and the Constitution and laws of North Carolina not inconsistent therewith, and that I will faithfully discharge the duties of my office as ………………………………………, so help me God.”

  18. Rob Close

    from the census.gov website…their Q&A;.pdf

    “Is the ACS part of the 2010 survey? Yes”

    “Do I have to answer the questions?” Yes. Your response to this survey is required by law (Title 13, US Code sections 141, 193 and 221)”

    “The police cannot see it and no court of law can see it”

    http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downloads/ACSQandA.pdf

  19. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Rob
    You do not have to answer the questions! See my post. You are spreading misinformation.
    The Title 13 law only applies to federal employess, congress is forbidden to legislate for the several states.The law is repungnet to the 5th amendment,therfore pursuant to Mulbury Vs Madison it is null.If you believe the FBI cant see it your nuts.Click the hyperlink I supplied.
    You need to go to the defination sections of title 13, which is not positive law, with no implementation regulations.

    There is a federal protective injunction order in effect protecting the rights of those who refuse to answer.
    Please stop licking the boots of the governemnt,the constitution clearly limits what the governemnt can do which is only 17 things.
    You need like most sheep people to find out what authority the government has,I have a novel idea read the constitution.Government cant compell you to do anything

  20. Rob Close

    ok, dr. A – i think you’re totally insane.

    call me a sheep only if you’re willing to use your real name, and not keep hiding behind your alias.

    until then, STFU.

  21. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Dear Rob
    You are so articulate! STFU spoken well, is that out of a first grade reader?
    I noticed your response contained no facts in-law. Only ad-homineum attacks as you lack substance and content to refute.

    The term sheep people simply applies to all those who like sheep,have no legal understanding of inferior statutory law, yet, obey laws that don’t apply to them, inferior laws that cause them to be subjects, rather than sovereigns

    A good place for you to start your legal education, or may I say a lack of one, is to find out what the term “person” means in statutory law. May I suggest you look at North Carolina law and find out what a “person” is defined as, you might be surprised, you like most people on this site have been lied to and programmed? I will give you a clue a “person” in law is not a man.

    I have no doubt that people such as myself seem insane to “Persons” such as yourself. I take your insult as a compliment.
    All the Best

  22. Rob, I do not think Dr. A is totally insane… I believe he has transcended insanity and plunged into the deepest, darkest depths of a veritable Marianas Trench of delusion… and is down there, even as we speak, industriously chipping away at the slimy bedrock to sink even deeper.

    “The only problem with seeing too much is that it makes you insane.” — Phaedrus (Roman fabulist, 15-50 B.C.)

    Dr. A. not only sees too much, he SAYS too much. Verbosity is not a virtue if you take 200 words to spout mere drivel.

    It very much dilutes his arguments.

    The insulting of our collective intelligences is a bit counterproductive as well.

  23. “The insulting of our collective intelligences is a bit counterproductive as well.”

    I would like to also insult your collective intelligences.

    I have not heard a single valid counter-argument to Dr. A’s well-researched and considered commentary.

    You are collective dunces.

  24. If you believe Dr. A’s claptrap to be “well-researched and considered commentary…” Tim, then you are a singular dunce. Not unique, mind you, just lonely in holding an opinion not held anywhere else in the known universe.

  25. Rob Close

    here you go Tim. if you don’t apologize for calling me a dunce after this, we’re gonna have problems. i want it public.

    First off – Dr. A COPIED AND PASTED his response to kat there. those weren’t his words – they were entirely from the website he’s linked to (just like i did, but mine was from the OFFICIAL source, which seems like a smart place to start).

    and guess what?

    “In a stunning reversal of her earlier decision, a federal judge has dismissed a case that would have prevented the federal government from taking criminal action against those who refuse to answer questions demanded by the U.S. Census Bureau, beyond what is required by the U.S. Constitution.”

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=18044

    Yup. The decision was reversed weeks later by the very same judge. You CAN still get in trouble, it seems (unless someone can find something newer). And c’mon, it was a TEMPORARY restraining order. Learn to read people.

    So now who’s the sheep? I’m gonna say it’s Dr. A, for believing what he wants to be true, and using random non-updated websites as his source material, then passing it on as truth, while mocking others for looking into more official sources. But i’m used to this crap from him by now, which is why i told him to STFU. I was in a bad mood this morning, and i kinda felt bad about it at the time, but now i don’t.

  26. No one is going to argue the absurd, Tim. If you wish to join the Dr. A. fan club, feel free — I understand there is no crowd to impede you.

    As to shooting fish in a barrel, it simply puts holes in an otherwise perfect good barrel.

    And before you get too far off this ledge, think about what defending Dr. A. says of your own cognitive powers — it would seem to hint at a less than firm grip on reality.

  27. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Thank you for the support Tim, and now for the movement of truth lets see how crazy I am. But before we do I have something to say. Ralph, for all your piousness, I feel sorry for you. You are a sanctimonious, recalcitrant, little man,. Locked up in the caverns of your own mind and under total delusion, I can only hope this post elucidates your willfully ignorant mind.

    That being said, please notice, THE LAW USC title 13. Please notice the term respondent, this is whom is required to respond to the census,If your one of those things I feel sorry for you. NOTHING CAN USURP THE CONSITUTION! Alas the law can never apply to men with unalienable rights and a Fifth Amendment guarantee of those rights .Read who the respondents are.
    TITLE 13–CENSUS

    CHAPTER 1–ADMINISTRATION

    SUBCHAPTER I–GENERAL PROVISIONS

    Sec. 1. Definitions

    As used in this title, unless the context requires another meaning
    or unless it is otherwise provided–
    (1) “Bureau” means the Bureau of the Census;
    (2) “Secretary” means the Secretary of Commerce; and
    (3) “respondent” includes a corporation, company, association,
    firm, partnership, proprietorship, society, joint stock company,
    individual, or other organization or entity which reported
    information, or on behalf of which information was reported, in
    response to a questionnaire, inquiry, or other request of the
    Bureau.
    CHECK MATE END GAME

    http://us-states-rights.blogspot.com/2006/11/constitution-is-stupid-argues-cen

  28. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    The term individual is never defined in federal law, it cant be,as it means person or corporation only

  29. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    ‘Individual’
    The term of art ‘individual’ is also frequently employed in the codes. Which is even more sneaky, because most people believe this word to be, for all intents and purposes, synonymous with ‘a human being’…what the law refers to as a ‘natural person.’ Roman law hardly referred to such a physical being, except the rare usage of singularis persona—which, however, still employs ‘persona,’ thereby preserving a juridical nexus, inapplicable to a sentient man (homo). An abstract, fictitious ‘person’ is needed. Recall Judge Bork, on page 11, above, saying that 90% of those in prison were there because they consented to the process? You consent when you agree to be subject to a statute dealing with persons—which we have seen to be fictional corporate constructs or entities. The code—any of the 48 titles—only applies to a human being at the point s/he agrees to take on the character, status, persona of an artificial juristic persona. Always remember that when the code says “…any person,” it means “any person in the jurisdiction of this code.” One obligates oneself to the civil code by an act of assumpsit…i.e., volunteering to be that ‘person.’ (Assumpsit: “A promise or engagement by which one person assumes or undertakes to do some act or pay something to another.” Black’s Law Dictionary, 6th edition. Recall the Chisholm case, above.) You will never see in any code, State or federal, the word ‘man’ or ‘woman’…or ‘people’—at least I don’t recall having done so—only the juristic, statutory ‘person.’
    People are understandably confused about on what I believe to be the correct signification of a particular class of persons, namely, a ‘natural person.’ It is almost always used loosely to refer to the physical, sentient human being. Indeed, in statutory law this is the term of choice for a living man—but always in a qualified sense. At 26 CFR 1.6049-4(f) Definitions we read:
    The term natural person means any individual, but shall not include a partnership (whether or not composed entirely of individuals), a trust, or an estate. (Emphasis added.)
    Notice carefully how they see it as both possible and necessary to qualify ‘individual.’ If this term stood for a living man, it would be pointless and ridiculous to say that it could not be a trust or an estate! They wouldn’t say that a man shall not include an estate.
    So then, we see that ‘person,’ ‘natural person,’ and ‘individual’ are all fictitious legal creations. And, if you acquiesce to being any of them, in a legal setting, you thereby agree that the code addresses and applies to you.
    This is why some have an aversion to referring to their appearance in court as being ‘in propria persona’…which some do to avoid pleading pro se, ‘for oneself,’ when appearing without an attorney. They don’t want to represent themselves, but be themselves. And, since ‘in propria persona’ means ‘in one’s own proper person,’ it would seem to overcome this objection. Be this as it may—and I am aware of many arguments pro and con—the court still refers to your appearance as being pro se. Personally, if I found myself in that situation, I would appear in rerum natura, ‘in the realm of actuality; in existence,’ (Black’s Law Dictionary, 6th edition) the opposite of being a fictitious person.
    We should look, too, at the very first term in the general definition chapter for the entire IRC: Section 7701(a)(1)—and well they should begin there, for all statutory law rests on the foundation of this juristic fabrication.

  30. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    This ones for you Rob and yeah i did copy and paste it read it and weep.They cant prosecute.

    That means roughly 250,000 times recipients will see the warning that participation is required by law, and there are penalties including fines for not answering each question. But, in fact, U.S. Census Bureau officials say they’ve never had anyone prosecuted for refusing to provide those intimate details to the government
    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58679

  31. Rob Close

    “You will never see in any code, State or federal, the word ‘man’ or ‘woman’…or ‘people’”

    so when there are laws that refer to people, what are we called, if not “individuals”. are there no laws for people?

    give me a freakin’ break. individuals refers to people. PROVE otherwise.

    i don’t become rob close by “volunteering to be that ‘person.'” i am him. i live under the laws of the land that i live in, and practically speaking – if i took your advice to a judge, he’d laugh at me.

    but seriously, does anyone other than an overly-stoned tim peck think Dr. A is anything other than a) a psycho, or b) a CIA mole designed to waste our time and trick us into being stupid? cuz the CIA used to do shit like that…misinformation campaigns were big with them. and this is how they’d operate.

  32. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Poor Rob is mind is blown check mate end game!
    A legal person, also called juridical person or juristic person, is a legal entity through which the law allows a group of natural persons to act as if they were a single composite individual for certain purposes, or in some jurisdictions, for a single person to have a separate legal personality other than their own. [1] [2] This legal fiction does not mean these entities are human beings, but rather means that the law allows them to act as persons for certain limited purposes—most commonly lawsuits, property ownership, and contracts. This concept is separate from and should not be confused with limited liability or the joint stock principle.[3]. Also note that basic rights (like the rights to free speech and due process of law) do not necessarily follow from legal personhood. A legal person is sometimes called an artificial person or legal entity (although the latter is sometimes understood to include natural persons as well). Although the concept of a legal person is more central to Western law in both common law and civil law countries, it is also found in virtually every legal system. [4]

    In England and the United States, the use of this terminology does not mean that legal persons are considered human beings. It is simply a “technical legal meaning” in which “a ‘person’ is any subject of legal rights and duties.”[5] Because these entities may have legal rights and duties, they are considered ‘legal persons’ to distinguish them from natural persons.

    Note: This Wikipedia entry deals with the legal concept legal person. There is an ongoing political debate and controversy in the U.S. over the extent to which constitutional rights presumed to have been created for natural persons have increasingly been asserted by corporations and other legal persons, popularly referred to as corporate personhood. For more information, see Corporate personhood debate.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juristic_person

  33. Rob Close

    you call that checkmate? my god.

    yes, i know that corporations are considered persons by the law. guess what! that doesn’t mean that people aren’t persons!

    5 points to the person who can name what logical fallacy Dr. A tried to push here.

    ~ Rob Close
    B.A., Philosophy, UNCA, not a sheep.

    p.s. hey you willing to admit you were wrong about that court case, Dr. A? didn’t see you mention anything about your earlier “checkmate” that i proved was misleading and no longer applicable.

  34. torrents of words from an anonymous source is like a flood of muddy water full of debris … it’s impressive as it roars by but presents no coherent thought.

    Rob, what logical fallacy? His rants are based primarily on the conspiracy and constitutional misinterpretations of the tax protest movement and other such wackos. This stuff he spews is not original and even Dr.A. himself admits to copying from other sites.

    I say until he starts using his real name, ignore him. Perhaps even afterward, as well, eh?

  35. “if you don’t apologize for calling me a dunce after this, we’re gonna have problems.”

    Start having problems.

  36. Rob Close

    “I have not heard a single valid counter-argument to Dr. A’s well-researched and considered commentary.”

    well i did the research, found out one of his quotes was totally wrong, and you’re still siding with him…nice fantasy-land, tim. and good job contributing actual arguments of your own – oh wait, you just called us dunces and added nothing.

    consider our beef on.

  37. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Rob,
    I hope you can see by now that you have been operating under delusion like most.
    There comes a time when you must embrace your cognitive dissonance, least you remain as willfully ignorant and as void of reason, as Ralph, the U.S. citizen slave.

    Freemen like Tim, have a basic essential understanding of the constitution and know that it is impossible for any statutory law to be in conflict with the constitution see Mulberry Vs Madison 1803, any law,repugnant to the constitution, is void ab initio. This is precisely why USC 13, has never been enforced, one, it’s not positive law, with implementation regulations or supporting law, two, it’s patently unconstitutional and three, it is limited in its scope of jurisdiction.

    Simply put, you have agreed to be transformed into a cooperate “person”, with an all capitalized Roman civil law slave name, referred to in law as Capitis Diminutio Maxima. All your credit cards and licenses and identification from the government contain your name, spelled all in capitals, like that of corporations,THIS IS NOT BY ACCIDENT.

    The question for you is, do you wish to remain in a state of contractual bondage, or would you like to declare your citizenship under USC title 8, as that of a state national, with all your rights intact? “The only unqualified right of a U.S. citizen is to reside in territories and or possessions of the United States” see U.S. Vs. Valentine.
    Simply put, the status of a U.S. citizen was created under the civil rights act of 1866 and then placed into the never properly ratified 14 th amendment.

    You were never informed pursuant to the social security act 0f 1935, that you could cancel out of the privatized social security program, 6 months prior to your 18th birthday and 6 months after your 18th birthday, when you unknowingly, entered into this social security contract, with the corporation known as the United States (while you were still a minor) as defined in USC 28- 3002 subsection 15 (a-c), you gave up all your rights contained in the constitution, for benefits.

    Good news is you can get your rights back, given the provisions under USC title 8.

    Simply put you have been contracted into bondage by men who are careful word smiths and want you to think the word “person” means a man, which it does not.
    The choice you have is to remain as willfully ignorant and a slave on the plantation, as your buddy Ralph, who conveniently brands anyone who knows law, as a conspiracy theorist, or you can put your head in law books and use the escape clauses placed in statutory code and provisions to recapture your lost political status as a State National.
    The alternative is to remain a “person” a legal fiction in law or a man on the land with all your rights intact.
    Do you want to be like Ralph or do you want to be free?
    A good place to start would be an apology to Tim and me.

  38. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Rob you need to look it is you who are wrong what does this mean to you?
    “That means roughly 250,000 times recipients will see the warning that participation is required by law, and there are penalties including fines for not answering each question. But, in fact, U.S. Census Bureau officials say they’ve never had anyone prosecuted for refusing to provide those intimate details to the government”
    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58679

  39. my gauntlets are on sale this week, Tim… but you’ve earned Rob’s displeasure on your own and he’s correct to take umbrage.

    If the only entity you have supporting you is Dr.A. … well… heh, heh. … good luck, let the games begin. I shall supply Rob not only gauntlets but graves and a serviceable short sword and shield. You would do better, Tim, to hold out for the lions.

    Ave Caesar morituri te salutant

  40. Rob Close

    I spoke with Shelly Lowe from the Census Bureau’s Public Information Office just now, after some phone tag and talking to four other people who didn’t know from that same Bureau.

    On the record, she told me that that “the fact is, the ACS IS MANDATORY”. They or the department of justice are empowered to prosecute. However, THE BUREAU has not pursued any legal action against anyone since 1970, and before then since 1960 – though the bureau did win that 1970 case in court. And the most recent lawsuit against the census since then was LOST, though if you believed like some blind sheep what Dr. A printed, you’d think the people won that case.

    She would not confirm that the Bureau will continue this policy of non-enforcement, only that they’ve gone 38 years without.

    Now if going to official sources makes me a sheep, so be it. Better than trusting blindly that websites like “lizmichael.com” are guaranteed to be accurate – because I’ve already proven that they aren’t. But since neither of you were willing to recognize your support of fallacious information, don’t expect me to believe i owe you anything.

    On a lighter note – was Dr. A the inspiration for the commentary in this week’s Disclaimer?

    http://www.mountainx.com/disclaimer/comments/040908disclaimer

  41. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Rob
    I Never said anyone won a case I said a
    Judge issued an injunction, maybe you better look up the meaning of injunction. You are correct in saying the same Judge, only weeks later reversed the order, gee I wonder why???

    Thanks for doing all that leg work with the government lackeys, your calls and contact with Ms Lowe only bolster what I asserted , that the issue, is a joke, it is non enforceable, because its unconstitutional and the government knows it.

    So the prima facie evidence is that if one closed the door on a Census Worker and refused to answer no prosecution would occur, The Bureau is mere agency, by their own admission.
    “The Bureau is continued as an agency within, and under the jurisdiction of, the Department of Commerce”.

    Agency’s Rob, dear boy, have no ‘offices” created by congress, therefore they hold no constitutional office, which means they are administrative, which means they cant enforce anything outside of the D.C. area period.

    If you slammed the door on a census worker it would mean nothing as the secretary must serve you by certified mail, asking for your information before anyone can be prosecuted and they won’t do that as it does not pertain to citizens domiciled in the several states. Here is the procedure. I personally would just refuse to answer and ask them to leave, period, you and Ralph however, would like submissive sheep, enter into more co-operative contracts with the corporation known as the U.S,. as you want more benefits like sheep people.

    In closing Rob you seem very proud of your little psychology degree, that degree and a cup of coffee will get you what? A job at Burger King? My experience is that those who pursue such joke degrees as yours, do so to address some unresolved mommy and daddy issues, maybe you need to contact Dr.Carl Mumpower who can help you with your image problems and shortcomings both upstairs and down as well. Now go along like a good little sheep “person” as I weary of talking to an obstinate knave an a legal iota. Please read below

    TITLE 13–CENSUS

    CHAPTER 7–OFFENSES AND PENALTIES

    SUBCHAPTER III–PROCEDURE

    Sec. 241. Evidence

    When any request for information, made by the Secretary or other
    Authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau
    or agency thereof, is made by registered or certified mail or telegram,
    the return receipt therefore or other written receipt thereof shall be
    prima facie evidence of an official request in any prosecution under
    such section.

  42. Rob Close

    i wasn’t even talking to you, Dr. A., regarding the ‘injunction’. just quoting what Shelly Lowe told me in our conversation.

    this has been for everyone else’s benefit. get over yourself.

  43. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Admit you are wrong sir and Ill drop it.
    I have been correct about everything I said, save the injunction order.I do appauld your efforts in talking to the feds, I hope this dialouge has made you see the illusion that is being perpetrated upon us all by lawyers who work for bankers, who work for 13 international banking families, who serve the religious and political beast domiciled in Rome.
    You are free,no one including this Satantic governemnt can make you do anything.Everything is a contract sign nothing and agree to nothing.
    And as Jesus said, give no man an oath or swear to anything in earth or in heaven above.In short dont let them make you into a “person’ as you are a man.

  44. chall gray

    For some reason I think it would be really entertaining to watch DR. ANTI… act as his own defense in pretty much any type of court case…

  45. Wow, Dr. A is dominating this thread…. You know guys… its not as if he has insulted you on the sidewalk. His personal attacks get swallowed by cyberspace, you can choose to write him off, or simply ignore it and the discussion will move on. A one sided rant is just that if no one else gives it attention.

  46. “For some reason I think it would be really entertaining to watch DR. ANTI… act as his own defense in pretty much any type of court case…”

    I’m sure Ed Wahler would find it entertaining as well. It is always worth a chuckle to see officers of the court mumbling about incoherently.

    http://usofavus.com/

  47. that’s a very long URL but a very short post for Dr.A. … this is progress even if the link is to a tax protest mumbo-jumbo, pseudo-legal site.

    one of the best sites to debunk almost any of Dr.A.’s loony assertions is http://www.quatloos.com/

  48. using people debunked on http://www.quatloos.com/ to debunk http://www.quatloos.com/ is an inappropriate and ineffective strategy.

    Quatloos is a respected and very reputable site for investigating scams and frauds and is one of PC Magazines Top 100 rated sites on the Internet. Here’s a description of it from the Wikipedia:

    “Quatloos.com is an anti-fraud website maintained by a non-profit corporation, Financial and Tax Fraud Education Associates, Inc. It was founded in 2000 by Jay David Adkisson, an attorney and stockbroker. The site contains examples of advanced fee scams, such as the 419 Scam; information on misleading anti-tax and investment scams; examples of fraudulent documents; and a large number of court decisions. Although light-hearted in tone (its basic structure is a museum with a Hall of Shame at the back) it is a serious and exhaustive resource in the area. It also contains links to various law enforcement agencies that specialize in investigating such scams. It was listed as one of PC Magazine’s top 100 undiscovered web sites in 2003 and has been recommended as a good place to learn about internet scams and related fraud. Forbes selected it as one of its “Best of the Web” sites in 2000.

    ‘Respected’ and ‘reputable’ are not necessarily words I would apply to Dr.A.

  49. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Quatloos is run by a lying tax attorney in bed with the IRS FBI and congress who incidently loves Quatloos as the IRS Revenue funds congresss’s retirement program, the rest of the money they steal according to the 1984 Grace commssion report goes directly to the IMF to pay the massive U.S. debt. None of the money collected goes to support the governemnt.Click links.
    Here is the truth by one of the top legal reserchers in the country.
    http://www.supremelaw.org/sls/31answers.htm

    http://www.freecanadian.net/articles/grace.html
    Here is where your tax dollars go

  50. A moderately incoherent and off-the-subject reply from someone hiding behind the slimy rock of anonymity.

    hmmm… strike ‘moderately.’

  51. Umm, no one else has pointed this out, but I just wanted to participate in the free-for-all. Has anyone else noticed that Dr. A quotes Federal laws to prove that the Federal government doesn’t exist?

    Also, I love the website gaydemographics.org
    , which wouldn’t exist without the Census.

  52. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Oh Boy…..They are comming out of the closet and wood work now.

    Shades I never said the feds dont exsit, I said congress can not legislate for the several states, they only have plenary power for D.C. and its posessions.

    Federal laws are limted in scope as to whom they apply to.

  53. Dr.A. is wrong on numerous counts, accepting these conspiracy fallacies as gospel.

    Of COURSE Congress can and DOES legislate for the various states as long as there is a common consensus accepting such. And even after such consensus is lost because they control certain overwhelming arguments… to name a few, the 82nd Airborne Division, the 101st Airborne (go Screaming Eagles), my old unit the 1st Cav, a fleet of fighter jets, etc. etc. … What happened when the Southern states decided to no longer accept the laws of Congress? Well, Gettysburg, Antietam, Shiloh, Petersburg, Chancellorsville, etc. The Federal government has proved it is firmly committed to preserving the Union.

    To quote Voltaire, “God is always on the side of the big battalions.”

    Dr.A. is consistently wrong. I do enjoy pointing that out. ;-)

    And to quote ME, he remains “someone hiding behind the slimy rock of anonymity.”

  54. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Perhaps Ralph would like to argue his flawed and incorrect ideas with the Suprmeme court.His reasoning is flawed he needs to look at the tenth amendment.

    Congress cannot make laws for the States, and it cannot delegate to the States the power to make laws for the United States. In reference Rahrer, 140 U.S. 545; Knickerbocker Ice Co. v. Stewart, 253 U.S. 149; Opinion of the Justices, 239 Mass. 606.

    The act is not made valid by the circumstance that federal powers are to be exercised only with respect to those States which accept the act, for Congress cannot assume, and state legislatures cannot yield, the powers reserved to the States by the Constitution. Message of President Monroe, May 4, 1822; 4 Elliot’s Debates, p. 525; Pollard’s Lessee v. Hagan, 3 How.212; Escanaba Co. v. Chicago, 107 U.S. 678; Coyle v. Oklahoma, 221 U.S.559; Cincinnati v. Louisville & Nashville R.R. Co., 223 U.S. 390

  55. ah, good, Dr.Anonymous speaks of me now in the third person, I count this as progress.

    my reasoning is at times flawed, yes… but at least it stays within shouting distance of sanity whereas Dr.Anonymous whistles his lonely loony tunes in the darkness of intergalactic space, many thousands of parsecs from the nearest Starbucks.

  56. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    This is what congress can do.
    Mr Roberts does not understand the concept of express powers as opposed to implied powers.

    Article 1 – The Legislative Branch
    Section 8 – Powers of Congress
    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

    To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

    To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

    To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

    To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

    To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

    To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

    To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

    To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

    To provide and maintain a Navy;

    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

  57. hmmm… now let me see… did I ask for or even care about such a long, involved answer to something that really has nothing to do with the Census?

    nope.

    just answer the danged questions and the Census taker will leave. It’s no biggie.

  58. By the way, if Dr.Anonymous REALLY wants to discourse learnedly (yeah, right) on a high court decision, what about this?

    “The official legal difference between a fruit and vegetable was decided by the United States Supreme Court in 1893. According to the ruling, any plant or part of a plant generally eaten as part of the main course of a meal is a vegetable. Any plant or part of a plant generally eaten as an appetizer, a dessert, or out of hand is a fruit.”

    Better yet, and this is for everyone so please jump right in, is Dr.Anonymous fruit, vegetable, or mineral and, if so, which do you think he is.

    I will take the traditional ‘turnip.’ Who’s next?

  59. Lisa

    “just answer the danged questions and the Census taker will leave. It’s no biggie.”

    But it is a biggie. It is a big invasion of privacy and something that I would never feel comfortable sharing with anyone; especially a government agency, and one that looses and posts “private” information by accident all the time.

  60. Dear Doc Anticon,

    I think you are real smart. Ralph is just jealous that your posts are longer-winded than his. And more relevant.

    Plus, your photo is sexxxy.

    -love,

    sammule

  61. Lisa

    I have nothing I am ashamed of. I honestly am a fairly open book. Having said that…

    My life is my life, and none of the government’s business. I do not believe in the powers of the “big” government, and I have the right to my own privacy. From what I learned from other local people who have dealt with this, some of the questions asked by the workers on a home visit deal with your private life as far as weapons in your home, who sleeps over more than 2 nights a week, what your relationship is, etc. Things that are NO ONES buisness.

    Some of the questions on the form could lead to problems with different government organizations.

    The first and most worrisome for a parent who feeds her children mostly vegan, doesn’t have milk or cereal in her home, home schools, might not be legally married to her “partner” and doesn’t vaccinate, would be that there are questions geared towards your children. “Has this person attended school?” “How many days have they missed..” etc. These are all questions that could be forwarded onto CPS.

    The federal government does not control schooling, the state does, so it is none of their business. There are also health insurance questions, and other questions about what government “programs” each person in the household is on. So, if my income is low, and I am not on the programs, I don’t have health insurance, and my child isn’t in a traditional school, I have just made myself a target for CPS. God forbid we choose to live in a home without running water, enough bathrooms or gas or electric heat… those are other questions.

    The list goes on… What if, since my husband and I both are work at home parents owning home based companies, I get some of these tax numbers wrong, I mess up on the utilities or something, and this is sent to the IRS, the IRS then comes back and fines us or worse, garnishes what little we do have?

    Don’t get me started on Ethnicity, Race, and Ancestry. The Census Bureau was responsible for the detention of the Asian Community during the World War.

    They have put peoples private information out on websites “by accident”, and have lost some 7000 computers with personal information on them in the last few years.

    All of this leaves me extremely uneasy and uncomfortable with the promise of keeping it all private.

    I am more than willing to give the information that the actual 2010 census requires: the number of persons living in my home. But the rest of what they are asking is not up for grabs.

    If the wrong person were to get a hold of this after I fill it out, I have opened myself up to identity theft, home invasion, and more. I am not willing to put my family’s safety in that sort of situation.

    There are plenty of sheeple who follow what our government says blindly. My husband and I are not 2 of them. Our children will not be either.

  62. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Lisa
    Cogent post,lucid points,unfortunately your casting pearls before swine. He like most, has
    already taken the mark in his heart.

    Mr Roberts is merely waiting on his governemnt ordained pastor or Rush Limbaugh and the governement whom he worships, like a dog who licks the hand of its master, to tell him to take the implant, in the interest of national security.

    He like most corporate, governemnt loving, 501c3 imposter,luke warm evangelicals, will misquote Romans 13 to justify his submission to governemnt tyranny, while he delivers true patriots up to homeland security.

    Watch out Lisa if he knows your real name he might just call republican Jesus or Bill O’Riely up on his cell phone and send the alphabet soup boys to your house to arrest you for non-compliance.
    You have as much chance getting through to him, as a camel does going through the eye of needle.

  63. Lisa M

    I have another long post out there in cyberspace answering the question as to what I am ashamed of, I went ahead and got a login for the meantime. I’ll just wait for that to post/be approved.

    Dr. A, I thank you for the support, but I don’t feel that insulting anyone is the way to get them to see my point of view. . .

    I would hope that the facts would speak for themselves.

    How can this hurt us? How can giving information that is “no biggie” be an issue?

    The Census was responsible for the detainment of Asians during the World War. They denied giving out information for decades, and finally have publicly acknowledged that they were responsible for the detainment of American Citizens in internment camps, and apologized for it in 2000.

    In 2007 over 63,000 social security numbers were breached by the US Census Bureau.

    And in the last 5 years or so some 1,700 computers with personal information and surveys identifying people (surveys like the ACS) have gone missing.

    The reason the information is collected isn’t my issue, it is what happens to it afterwards, and how it can effect us all down the road. There is no telling who will have access to this information or how it will be used. No matter what they are “supposed” to do, or how private it is “supposed” to be kept, it still happens, and we are still in danger of being persecuted b/c of the information we willingly give up.

    Does that make sense?

  64. “I can’t think of anything a census taker would ask that I’m ashamed of having anyone know? What do you have, Lisa?”

    This is why our country is, and has been, lost to us.

  65. And Dr.A., we KNOW DR.A. is ashamed or he would not hide behind a pseudonym.

    ahh… Dr.A. and T.Peck … if I may paraphrase a line in “Bad Boys” …

    Bad boys, bad boys.

    What’cha gonna do/When the Census Taker come for you?

    Bad boys, bad boys.

    What’cha gonna do/When the Census Taker come for you?

  66. Ralph,

    If you cant understand why folks might be a little hesitant at answering these kinds of questions, maybe you should go back to grade school and review the Nazi holocaust.

    Some funny questions about ‘are you jewish’ that might not have bothered you, but mighta sent your neighbors to the gas chambers.

    I guess your little ‘ol country self din get no book learnin.

    Ignorant fool.

    It’s okay, you make yourself look like a fool on here often enough that no one takes you seriously anyway.

  67. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Tim
    Well said! I pity him; he merely is the end result of 70 plus years, of a concerted effort to turn men into chattel, bonded, commercial, government stock, via them entering into unilateral contracts, with the government, for benefits, while they sell their birthrights for a pot of pottage.

    He sees the government, as a benevolent, warm, fuzzy sugar Daddy, a concept which is the complete anathema to what founding fathers warned us about. Government they warned, was a necessary evil, a demon, to be caged and watched, least it escapes and completely dominates the very men who created it.

    Roberts would have been branded as a coward by Jefferson and real men, indeed he is a coward, however, he has millions more hapless U.S.citizens, just like himself, infected with blind nationalism. These dumbed down minions, haven’t got a clue what liberty means, nor do they have the knowledge or testosterone to fight for it, yet, are quick to criticize others who do fight, Roberts brands these brave patriots, as tax protestors and conspiracy theorists, never realizing the founding fathers, created this nation on tax revolt! In short his sorry butt would not be here, if it wasn’t for a tax revolt and protest!

    Perhaps Roberts likes the idea of his naked body and that of his wife (an image that I wish not to ponder) being scanned, in airport terminals and being x-ray photographed and stored in the N.S.A. and F.B.I.’s national data base. Or better yet, maybe he thinks the government’s new tacit of the collection of DNA, is a good thing. He will be only too glad, to comply with that too, giving the government access to his biological code, so they can target his DNA and manipulate, and track and control him with it. After all Republican Jesus, his false God, told him to obey government, as the higher power.

    Roberts and millions more government compliant sheep just like him, have never rattled the outside peripheral area, of the cage that they are imprisoned in. They have never dealt, as I have, with the real puppet masters and slave masters, who run the plantation, in which they grovel like slaves and not men.

    Tim, simply put, this country is under foreign occupation, and has been since at least of April of 1933, by a private banking cartel. Alphabet law enforcement agencies are merely conduits for the perpetuation of the private Federal Reserve System plantation, their job is to keep the slaves on the plantation and preserve the status quo and to eradicate all those who dissent and influence others to revolt against slavery.

    The proof of this is, Lord Bush, is now asking congress to completely empower, the private Federal Reserve banking system, in order to have total control, over every aspect of the economy, as the liquidation of the once great United States occurs at breakneck speed.

    All U.S. citizens were collateralized by the government in 1933, now its time, through government manipulated foreclosures etc, to liquidate the remaining assets of the U.S,.transfer them off shore, while the flood gates are opened up to a torrent of illegals, to rape, rob and pillage what’s left of this nation. Just like Rome.

    Roberts answer to this is ignominious event, is to bend over and comply, because he thinks Jesus said to render all your wealth to Caesar.

    Pity him Tim; he is a little man, with a mouth, that spews the words of a slave, while licking the hand of the beast whom he serves.

    He thinks himself pious, when in fact, he neglected to read Revelation 21, when the Lord says he hates all cowards, he and others of his ilk, await a rapture, to Disney land, instead on being men and standing up to tyranny. Yellow belly cowards will never inherit the kingdom of heaven.

  68. travelah

    Come now, Ralph, a pseudonym is not synonymous with shame.

    A.M. Mallett

  69. Sorry, travelah… most guides to journalism say that anonymous quotes are to be avoided. Writing anonymously takes away responsibility, civility, quite often commonsense, and a good deal of humanity. I would like to see this board become a ‘real name’ forum.

    As more than adequate proof of the disadvantages of allowing anonymity, simply read Dr.A. above.

    I stand by what I say; others of you stand BEHIND what you say.

  70. Sammule wrote: “Some funny questions about ‘are you jewish’ that might not have bothered you, but mighta sent your neighbors to the gas chambers.”

    Good point.

    It was the FBI raid of census data that enabled the internment of Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor.

    “In the years 1939–1941, the FBI compiled the Custodial Detention index (“CDI”) on citizens, “enemy” aliens and foreign nationals, based principally on census records, in the interest of national security.” http://snipr.com/24b97

    “The census found 126,947 Japanese Americans; 62.7% were citizens by birth. In addition, 157,905 were in the Territory of Hawaii, and 263 in the Territory of Alaska.” http://snipr.com/24b9m

    Democratizing the Enemy: The Japanese American Internment by Brian Masaru http://snipr.com/24b9z

  71. travelah

    Nonsense, Ralph, I’ve used my name several times in posts and continue to use an ID I have used in various forms since before Al Gore invented the internet. While you may have a pet peeve of sorts, it is not one that need be honored under the ruse of journalistic integrity.

    As for standing by what you are stating, A.M. Mallett (travelah) offers you a sweet sounding rhasberry.

  72. well, not to worry, travelah… I generally likes and agree with you… you’re not the idiot posting long, conspiracy-laden piles of goat snot while hiding behind the goat itself.

    And thank you for the name.

  73. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Tim your post was magnificent!!
    Please Notice how the pompus neocon wind bag could not rebut.
    Instead he engauged in the same old tripe, claiming to have half his brain tied behind his back.He is style without substance and content
    Hats off Tim! You finally shut him up, your a better man than I

  74. Gee, Tim… if Dr.A. was supporting me, I would both repudiate and reject him, to use Obama’s reply to Hillary about Louis Farrakhan. And if the anonymous Dr.A. called one of my posts ‘magnificent’ I would run screaming down the road.

  75. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Mr. Roberts
    Still no rebuttal from you, to the excellant points both Tim and Lisa made. You have no rebuttal because you have no position, and you have no truth.You are devoid of truth as it is not in you.

  76. Lisa M

    I noticed that Dr. A… lol. I was hoping for some more to talk about…

  77. Dr.A. certainly has a wonderfully adroit touch in winning friends and influencing people, eh?

    This is not a debate, I have no need of doing rebuttals. I’ll leave all the rebuttal showing to Dr.A.

  78. brebro

    If a Census taker tries to test you, just eat his liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti. FFFFFFFFFFFFuFFFFUuuFUFUUFUU!FufFFF!

  79. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Lisa,
    I reread your post, you made superb points. The rampant infection of submission to government, is a relativity recent phenomenon. If some governmental worker tried to come into your Great Grandfather’s home, asking the kind of questions you described in your post, that worker would have been meet with a double barrel shotgun.

    Instead, since the massive traitor F.D.R,. created the socialist state we now have in April of 1933, people like Ralph Roberts have been so infected by governmental submission, that they literally have no conception of what their relationship is to government and the very limited role government was designed to play.

    You mentioned the I.R.S.,well today is the real April fools day, a day, when the chattel property called U.S. citizens pay homage to an a private debt collection agency, that is not found in any of the 80 million Federal codes and statues.
    I can already hear the morons saying Title 26 is the I.R.S., it is not, the I.R.S. is not even mentioned in Title 26.
    Morons, like you know, will say “Oh this is just conspiracy theory”, they classify anyone who presents information outside of their governmental induced paradigm, as a conspiracy nut, this is so they don’t have to think, and consider that they have been lied to.

    Idiots like you know, have lost the capability to think outside what they have been taught in the public fool system.
    So in the spirit of the real April fools day Ill make an offer, that everyone can understand, even you know who.

    How would you like three hundred thousand dollars, that’s right 300K????.
    All you have to do is go to this site http://www.inlibertyandfreedom.com/300000.htm.
    Here is all you have to prove in order to collect the reward. Freedom Law School will offer $300,000 to the first person, who can demonstrate any of the below propositions. The winner can collect up to $300,000 if he/she can demonstrate all of the 3 propositions listed below:
    1. Show what statute written by the Congress of the United States requires me to file an Income Tax Confession (Return) and pay an Income Tax.
    2. How can I file an Income Tax Confession (Return) without waiving my 5th Amendment protected right to not give any information to the government that may be used to prosecute me?
    3. Prove that the 16th Amendment of the United States Constitution, the Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which, according to the IRS and modern American courts permitted the Income Tax to exist, was lawfully added to the U.S. Constitution.

    Incidentally over 60 million people have freed themselves from the I.R.S. illusion.
    The rest are sheep people like you Know who Lisa. They think the Federal Reserve is Federal, that Federal taxs go to run the government, and that those funny green pieces of paper meet the definition of a Dollar as defined by the coinage act of 1791.
    Happy April fools day and good luck I hope you can collect the 300 reward.
    Ps click this link to find out that the emperor has no clothes.
    http://www.supremelaw.org/sls/31answers.htm
    HAPPY APRIL FOOLS DAY EVERYBODY!!

  80. DR.ANTINEOCONUS

    Lisa
    I forgot to put you know who several times, In my post,like you know means the neo con bozo , not you , I think your very nice and awake unlike, you know who, the son of deciet

  81. PROF. PROPALEOCONUS

    Dr. Anti,
    Yes… Yes! You speak the truth. Don’t let the vermin neocon sheeple get away with it! Awaken the masses! Do not fall for the lies from the son of deciet, who I believe is the third cousin once removed from the son of deceit. Decendent from the Deceit clan who hail from Manitoba.

    Regardless! Don’t heed the chattel. Fight on brother!

  82. Lisa M

    “Lisa
    I forgot to put you know who several times, In my post,like you know means the neo con bozo , not you , I think your very nice and awake unlike, you know who, the son of deceit”

    Thank You Dr. A. I guess that the facts Tim and I posted must have spoken for themselves… Ralph hasn’t responded…

    The truth speaks.

  83. Prof. Propaleoconus

    Yes, you are so right. Son of Deceit it is! What was I calling it?… son of deciet? My whole hearted apologies, Sir.

    I’m assuming Twit must be some kind of term of endearment. Thank you. This Twit agrees completely. The truth has indeed spoken and I am silent in awe of just reading it.

    Well not completely silent since I’m typing this… definitely muted… quiet maybe? I’m quietly muted in the face of the truth.

  84. Lisa M

    I just wish more people would read information about this and learn from it. We need to stand up for what few rights we have left.

  85. germanjew

    This one time i filled out a census form, and they gave me and my whole family a free train ride!!

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