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88 thoughts on “Yes Wiccan

  1. Einherjar

    I find this to be highly offensive!!!

    Portraying Wiccans and/or Pagans in such a derogatory manner is the basest form of religious stereotyping.

    This is the 21st century and LIBELOUS cartoons such as this will not be allowed to pass.

    Oh and ‘Molton’, just so you know, the majority of the Wiccan/Pagan community is actually very Libertarian. That makes them more in line with the ‘Tea Party’ than they are with your globalist Republicrat bosses.

    Hoping to see you on trial soon.

  2. shadmarsh

    Hoping to see you on trial soon.

    For what exactly? Offending your sensibilities? Or is this some vague Kafkaesque threat?

    Wow, this is really stupid.

    Wow, such intellectual brilliance!

  3. “Wow, such intellectual brilliance!”

    It’s just a simple and honest observation, really.

    Thanks for chiming in on other people’s comments.

    Pantless, is it?
    …………………..

  4. shadmarsh

    I dunno Timmy, as a card carrying member of the ad hominem police, I thought you were above such “observations.”

    Also, how’s life in the loser hostel? I heard you guys ran into some trouble with the city. I would hate for your Ayn Rand circle jerk parties to have to come to and end.

  5. So happy you could manage to change the subject from present substance to personal attack.

    It is quite comforting to know that I have gained the upper hand and to know that you are not at all above this kind of gutter dialog you have learned so well from the others.

    “Pantless” has become more than a cute moniker; it’s a revealing metaphor.
    ………………………………..

  6. shadmarsh

    You seem to know a lot about “hand.” Is it from practice, or are you just naturally masturbatory?

  7. It can be somewhat amusing holding up a conversation with the intellectually stunted. It’s a lot like babysitting.

    Yes, little one, you are very, very clever. Run along now and pick up your toys.
    ……………………………………….

  8. shadmarsh

    You’re so cute when you are condescending. How is it that you’re single?

  9. Oh good. Yet another personal ‘ad hominem’ attack. How surprising.

    Out of ammo, are we?
    ………………………………..

  10. piffykap

    wow, i came here to call molten a hack. but that’s actually kinda clever.

    [b]So happy you could manage to change the subject from present substance to personal attack.[/b]

    You mean your articulate ‘this is really stupid’? Is that the ‘present substance’?

  11. Margaret Williams

    Honestly, it’s hard to tell if y’all are joking with one another or being total jerks (timpeck, & PeterPantsless). In any case, on the surface, y’all are all off topic and engaged in some internal debate that’s irrelevant to the cartoon in question.

  12. shadmarsh

    How so? I mean the jerks thing is A) subjective and B) not very moderatorly and what topic is it that we are off of?

    Also, piffykap, it’s Molton, not “molten.”

  13. dave

    I agree with the top comment, this is libelous, Obama doesn’t have ears that big.

  14. I’m a Wiccan, and what I find offensive (aside from the middle-school-style mudslinging on this forum) is Christine O’Donnell and her claim to have made out on a “Satanic” altar. If she was “dabbling” in Witchcraft, as she claimed, she didn’t dabble very deep if she thought it had anything to do with that very Christian deity, Satan.

    As for the cartoon, I took it as playing on Halloween stereotypes to take aim at O’Donnell’s hypocrisy, not at Wiccans.

    @Einherjar, no way would most Wiccans I know identify with the Tea Party — at least not the wacko Obama-hating, Mexican-hating, socialist-hating, government-hating, pretty-much-anybody-who’s-not-white-and-far-right-hating faction that sure looks like it dominates the TP nationally. People like Sarah Palin would tie us to a stake and burn us again if they ever (shudder!!!) came to power.

  15. Piffy!

    [b]Also, piffykap, it’s Molton, not “molten.” [/b]

    My mistake.

  16. Piffy!

    [b]Then, on the other hand, there’s the truth:
    http://is.gd/g2yua%5B/b%5D

    Timpeck, the fact that you think showing an image of ONE black guy at a tea party rally makes them ‘not racist’ only affirms your racism.

    The fact that you wont understand why makes you entertaining.

  17. Piffy!

    [b]How is it that you’re single?[/b]

    because no one can live up to ayn.

  18. Betty Cloer Wallace

    @ Einherjar: Portraying Wiccans and/or Pagans in such a derogatory manner is the basest form of religious stereotyping.

    I am not Wiccan, but I do know that Wicca is a legitimate religion.

    Bush II even added Wiccan monuments to the list of approved military gravestone memorials of fallen servicepersons.

    Satan is a Christian construct.

  19. Dionysis

    Has anyone ever noticed that Tim Peck will post something which is guaranteed to elicite some come-back by other posters, yet virtually everytime it happens, it’s the same old whining…”it’s a personal attack…it’s an ad hominem attack…thanks for making it about me…blah blah blah.”

    Loser.

  20. I am very happy to learn three days later that this thread is still about me.

    Funny how that happens, huh? :-)
    ………………………..

  21. bobaloo

    “Satan is a Christian construct.”

    Are you saying that the idea of an antithesis to a caring, loving and charitable deity is the construct of a 2,000 year old religion?
    Somehow I doubt that.

  22. shadmarsh

    I am not Wiccan, but I do know that Wicca is a legitimate religion

    I’m kinda curious as to what make a religion legit.

  23. Betty Cloer Wallace

    Satan, The Devil, etc., (fallen angels) are constructs of all the Abrahamic “desert” religions, as is the idea of “hell” as a place for people who do not subscribe to the particular religions to be tortured for all eternity.

    Witches, too, were constructs of the Abrahamic patriarchal religions to diminish, demoralize, and subjugate the role of women who were prominent in the older matriarchal nature-based religions, as well as to diminish the role of Sarah (which is why we now hear only about the God of Abraham and successive sons, not the God of Sarah and successive daughters).

    Even the words pagan and heathen, which simply meant Celtic nature-based matriarchal religious practices of the country people (of the heaths) in the British Isles, were further marginalized and demonized by patriarchal Christian churches.

    Then, of course, witches (women possessed by demons) were brought into the New World by our Christian “forefathers” (think Salem witch trials, stonings, hangings); and evil women on broomsticks are now firmly entrenched in our children’s stories, hallowe’en (hallowed evening, originally pagan) festivities, and even cartoons!

  24. Betty Cloer Wallace

    Rev. Lovejoy, I’d think “legit” most likely depends on context—political, religious, legal, personal, etc.

    In the case of the military recognizing Wicca as a religion, hence the military-paid Wiccan gravestones for fallen soldiers, the determination would include several contexts.

    Other groups, of course, such as Scientology, are having a hard time (in some contexts) being recognized as a religion.

  25. shadmarsh

    I think bobaloo has been to Sunday school…Also, I think he was making a larger point.

    Other groups, of course, such as Scientology, are having a hard time (in some contexts) being recognized as a religion.

    That’s because Scientology is stupid, and Wicca ain’t that far behind.

  26. Betty Cloer Wallace

    @ Rev. Lovejoy: Scientology is stupid, and Wicca ain’t that far behind.

    Does your religion believe that people who engage in Scientology and Wicca will be tortured in hell for all eternity?

  27. Betty Cloer Wallace

    Good one, Rev. Lovejoy! Maybe this thread has some life in it after all, and perhaps even some redeeming value.

  28. Some folks just choose to ignore ancient history, to further their own self interests.

    It’s all about mind control and the money, always the money.

  29. bobaloo

    Satan, The Devil, etc., (fallen angels) are constructs of all the Abrahamic “desert” religions, as is the idea of “hell” as a place for people who do not subscribe to the particular religions to be tortured for all eternity.

    Actually, no. That would be the Greeks with the construct of Tartarus, the location of Hades where those deserving eternal punishment are sent. This is also repeated (or stolen) in Roman mythology. Tartarus is believed to be a deity.

    It’s also notable that in Norse mythology, Hel is where those who died dishonorably are sent. I’m not sure what their exact punishment was, but they did not gain entrance to Valhall (heaven), as those who died in battle did.

    Witches also turn up very prominently in all kinds of mythologies. The origins of evil, punishment for not following religious tenets and evil deities in general are hardly original Christian constructs.

    The point being, people have used fear of eternal damnation for millenia to keep people in line.

  30. bobaloo

    edit: *Valhalla

    Also, I learned all of this from movies, video games (God of War is awesome) and comic books. I don’t do no book learnin.

  31. Piffy!

    I’m going to try posting like Peck:

    [i]Vague, not-entirely-true assertion about controversial issue delivered with total and absolute certainty… [/i]

  32. Piffy!

    I think Christine Odonnel is awesome! Sure, she appears to be a naive simpleton, but SO WHAT?

    Seriously.

    Why does the Left constantly make a mockery of themselves by criticizing such petty issues like calling ODonnel a witch, or Rand Paul a racist?

    It only makes the Democrats look petty, and it clearly distracts the public from educating themselves on any substantive policy issues.

  33. Betty Cloer Wallace

    @ bobaloo: The origins of evil, punishment for not following religious tenets and evil deities in general are hardly original Christian constructs.

    Of course they are not “original” Christian constructs. The Abrahamic religions, including Christianity, appropriated and editedgleanings from many cultures worldwide to create their new paternalistic religions that were subsequently passed on to much of the human population and thereby suppressed women almost everywhere.

    Since you’re interested in Greek history and myth, perhaps you will know about the Minoan God(dess) of Crete, holding aloft her snakes, the Supreme Deity of the last known earth-centered matriarchy on earth–before she and others were redefined and demoted into oblivion with the rise of Hebrew paternalism.

    This feminine God was said to be Creator of the Universe, holding in balance all the rhythms and forces of nature: birth and death, light and dark, earth and sky, male and female sexuality, etc. She was all-knowing, all-powerful, compassionate, nourishing–all characteristics attributed later to the new male Hebrew God. Her snakes were even appropriated for the Garden of Eden story, part of her subsequent denigration.

    So, what percentage of your favorite scriptwriters and videographers and comic book authors are women? Whoever controls the recorded word controls the story, you know.

  34. bobaloo

    Of course they are not “original” Christian constructs.

    Thanks for clearing that up, because when you said

    “Satan is a Christian construct”

    and

    “Satan, The Devil, etc., (fallen angels) are constructs of all the Abrahamic “desert” religions”

    and went on to rail against Christianity, it kinda sounded like you meant they started it.

    But instead of simply saying I was right, you had to make it sound like you knew that all along and it’s my fault I wasn’t smart enough to realize what you were saying, then launch into a feminist rant about paternalistic control.
    As you girls are wont to do.

    So, what percentage of your favorite scriptwriters and videographers and comic book authors are women?
    It’s a well known fact that women are not allowed to work in video games or comics nor are they allowed to be scriptwriters because women ruin everything they touch with their black, devious, sin-based hearts and mediocre imaginations.

    Case in point: Stephanie Meyer and Nora Ephron.

  35. Ken Hanke

    Case in point: Stephanie Meyer and Nora Ephron.

    You left out Ayn Rand.

  36. Betty Cloer Wallace

    Here are a few of my favorite sources for getting the big picture of how we came to be who we are—or how the United States came to be how it is—considering our predominant British and God-of-Abraham underpinnings.

    THE MISTS OF AVALON. [DVD based on Marion Zimmer Bradley’s book of the same title, also really good. TNT Original. Anjelica Huston, Julianna Margulies, Joan Allen. Bridges the old earth-centered religions with the coming of Christianity to Britain.]

    GOD’S SECRETARIES: The Making of the King James Bible. [The most comprehensive rendering of the political process. Adam Nicolson, 2003. Complete with photos of paintings of the key players on the King’s committee of all men, including Robert Cecil, g-g-g-?-? grandfather of William Cecil of Biltmore Estate.]

    THE ADVENTURE OF ENGLISH. [Title sounds boring, but it most assuredly is not. DVD in 8 parts. Narrated by Melvyn Bragg. ISBN 9322225058729. Every caring American should see this. Shows the historical interrelationship of language, religion, politics, culture, etc., that made an obscure hodgepodge of Germanic tribes in relatively tiny Britain become the English language of worldwide commerce that it is today.]

    THE DANCE OF THE DISSIDENT DAUGHTER: A Woman’s Journey from Christian Tradition to the Sacred Feminine. [Sue Monk Kidd’s personal research that led her to resign from her long-time job as a writer for GUIDEPOSTS (Christian magazine) to become a bestselling fiction writer and author of THE SECRET LIFE OF BEES.]

  37. Betty Cloer Wallace

    @ Rev. Lovejoy: “minor demon

    Yes, when you can count them on one hand, they are clearly “minor.”

  38. Betty Cloer Wallace

    And, unfortunately, there were no “girls” amongst King James’s Bible translation committee of 200+ clergymen, or else things might have turned out quite differently.

  39. bobaloo

    Here are a few of my favorite sources for getting the big picture of how we came to be who we are…

    No Nicolas Sparks?! Isn’t that what all the ladies read for educational literature?

    (I’m really glad you didn’t take that seriously by the way)

  40. Betty Cloer Wallace

    Nicholas Sparks? Ladies? Educational literature?

    No need to try to push my buttons, Bobaloo, even unseriously. They’ve already been pushed to death, seriously, over a lifetime of being part of the half of humankind that is considered secondary, even expendable.

    My only desire now is for this gender inequity to be diminished within the next few generations. I fear for our daughters and granddaughters who are even now objectified and relegated in our culture to the status of princess, witch, girl, lady, madonna, slattern, etc.

    What is so unsettling about the female gender that men can’t just let us be equal partners–just women with both brains and wombs–mothers, lovers, daughters–without all the qualifiers?

    This is real life for women, not just an exercise in competition or one-upmanship.

  41. Betty Cloer Wallace

    Aww, what the hell….

    Edit: one-upmanship

    Funny thing about even that miscoded word, which is an example of our language being so replete with masculine pronouns that one really doesn’t realize the subliminal impact of it on young girls until one gets one’s consciousness raised.

  42. “over a lifetime of being part of the half of humankind that is considered secondary, even expendable”

    Thing is, there’s always a price…..and the oppressors don’t get of scot-free by any means.

  43. bobaloo

    a lifetime of being part of the half of humankind that is considered secondary, even expendable.

    You’re black?

  44. brebro

    I find this Betty Boop avatar to be highly offensive!!!

    Portraying women in such a derogatory manner is the basest form of objectification.

    This is the 21st century and overtly dumbed down sex symbol cartoons such as this will not be allowed to pass.

    Please change to a less attractive female icon, such as Eleanor Roosevelt.

    Hoping to see you on trial soon!

  45. Betty Cloer Wallace

    You’re serious?

    Betty Boop and Betty Grable were the namesakes of thousands of us little girl babies born during WWII when women were first “given” the “right” to work in munitions factories (think Rosie the Riveter) and other war efforts outside the home–and, at the same time, to express their sexuality and independence.

    I, too, love Eleanor Roosevelt and campaigned for Hillary Clinton for President….. and I will again……..

    ,,,,,,,but don’t you dare, whoever you are, try to take away my Boop-oop-a-doop!

  46. bobaloo

    You’re serious?

    I never joke about feminists or black people (to their faces). I’m mortally afraid of being beaten up by lesbians and rappers.

  47. brebro

    Betty Boop made her first appearance in a “cartoon” (a.k.a. female disempowerment propaganda) called Dizzy Dishes! The title alone reinforces two unfair female sterotypes! The character was modeled on Clara Bow, the the superstar actress and It-girl of her day, known for her seductive baby-doll looks. A better role-model of that time would be Rosie the Riveter or a 16 year old Margaret Thatcher.

    No, I am not serious.

  48. Betty Cloer Wallace

    Cranky Hanke did a piece not long ago about Betty Boop in her early years being a dog with long ears.

    Oh my, yes. We’ve come a long way from dogs and dishes……. but miles to go before we sleep.

    And, Rev. Lovejoy, I always thought Ronald Reagan was a woman, since he and Margaret Thatcher got along so well.

  49. Piffy!

    PEOPLE! Have you all lost sight of the miracle?? Molton made semi-clever bit of wordplay!

  50. Betty Cloer Wallace

    OMG, BreB^^P. Now ye’ve gone and done it–insulted the Betty Boop avatar in a most egregious manner.

    May the Lord God Herself smite your mouse-finger and render it immobile.

  51. Ken Hanke

    May the Lord God Herself smite your mouse-finger and render it immobile.

    The idea of having one’s mouse finger smote is very troubling indeed.

  52. Betty Cloer Wallace

    Lord a’mercy! What an abomination! A pox on his head, or worse!

  53. Larry Cable

    Is anyone at MX moderating this thread? The talk of masturbation etc is way over the edge and has nothing to do with the cartoon, which is off topic enough on it’s own. I thought we were only about LOCAL politics here. The last I checked, Delaware is not in North Carolina.

  54. shadmarsh

    How can a cartoon–or anything really– be off it’s own topic?

  55. OK, time to stir this cauldron back up:

    @Rev. Lovejoy: I’m kinda curious as to what make a religion legit.

    I think the Pagan Romans had it right when they accused the Christians of being atheists, on the grounds that they denied the Gods and worshipped a man. Any religion that claims the infinite Divine can be imprisoned in a single book (Torah/Bible/Koran) and a single person (Moses/Jesus/Mohammed) is an illegitimate cult, no matter how many followers it has.

    @Betty: Witches aren’t now and never have been only women. Quite a few men were burned or hanged in the Inquisition for Witchcraft, too (e.g., Giordano Bruno). The war on Witches wasn’t just to suppress women: it was to suppress magic. Women tend to be more naturally gifted at magic then men, so they were especially targeted. But consider how even today orthodox Science carries on the Church’s crusade against astrology, “magical thinking”, reincarnation, any metaphysical practice or phenomenon that doesn’t fit materialistic Science’s meat-machine model of humanity — not much different from the Church’s fallen-flesh model, except now we aren’t even allowed an immortal soul.

  56. shadmarsh

    The Torah is contained in The Bible; it is the Pentateuch comprising the first 5 books of the old testament…And the Jews were around before the Romans.

  57. Rev., did I say they weren’t? Read it again — I was referring to the Christians. But thanks for the note on the Torah — it moves me deeply to see someone using the word “comprising” correctly.

    Ken, keep an eye on Chad Nesbitt. It’s happening every time he opens his mouth.

  58. Ken Hanke

    Ken, keep an eye on Chad Nesbitt. It’s happening every time he opens his mouth

    There’s a difference between magic and natural talent.

  59. jmed

    “Case in point: Stephanie Meyer and Nora Ephron.”

    She actually spells her name Stephenie, which I think, actually helps your point.

  60. “I wanna see somebody turned into a Newt. “-KH

    That’s been done already. Tell me he’s not from another dimension.

  61. But Chad, you see, made the foolish mistake of picking Wiccans as one of his first targets. That is, when he first gained publicity a few years ago by attacking then-Council candidate Elaine Lite for joining the public protest rite that inaugurated the push to stop the Parkside condos, he proceeded to ridicule and make bigoted remarks about us Witches who organized the protest.

    We recognized a dangerous demagogue on the rise, and caught him on the cusp — swiftly responding to him in magically crafted ways. If we hadn’t done what we did, when we did … well, look how far Sarah Palin’s gotten, and can you honestly say she’s any smarter than Chad? (Or any other newt?)

    And no, no animals lost their parts, no dolls were recruited as pincushions — sorry, that’s just Hollywood kid stuff. But you can see how the spell was cast (the key part, at least) at http://oldenwilde.org/oldenwilde/activism/magnolia_tree.html.

  62. Taxed Enuf Already

    “Is anyone at MX moderating this thread? The talk of masturbation etc is way over the edge and has nothing to do with the cartoon, which is off topic enough on it’s own. I thought we were only about LOCAL politics here. The last I checked, Delaware is not in North Carolina.”–Larry The Cable Guy

    Larry, right on. Where are the moderators? There are so many off-topic and off-color comments on this thread.

    I’d like Rangy Molton to really go against the grain and skewer a liberal democrat for a change. Cecil Bothwell would be a good one seeing as he has put his foot in his mouth a lot lately.

  63. shadmarsh

    Do you see what happens Larry? Do you see what happens Larry? Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

  64. bobaloo

    But consider how even today orthodox Science carries on the Church’s crusade against astrology, “magical thinking”, reincarnation, any metaphysical practice or phenomenon that doesn’t fit materialistic Science’s meat-machine model of humanity—not much different from the Church’s fallen-flesh model, except now we aren’t even allowed an immortal soul.

    So you’re being oppressed by science, just like the Christians? You’re in good company.

    We recognized a dangerous demagogue on the rise, and caught him on the cusp—swiftly responding to him in magically crafted ways. If we hadn’t done what we did, when we did … well, look how far Sarah Palin’s gotten, and can you honestly say she’s any smarter than Chad?

    Indeed. If the wiccans hadn’t used magic spells to hinder Chad Nesbitt’s progress he may have become a force to be reckoned with!
    Clearly it has nothing to do with his buffoonish behavior and weak grasp of grammar.

  65. Vermin F. Cockwolf

    Hey Tim, Frosti, get a room.

    As for the hostility of the cartoon, as a pagan (not a wiccan, but I respect them more than most religions), I can’t see anything offensive. Seems like a play on words to me. And that the wiccan (many of whom I know dress like that for irreverent celebrations at times) is portrayed in the center of the two liberal and conservative politicians.

    How sad that some people feel constantly attacked even when no one really cares about them or their issues.

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