The Carolina Stompers Web page features an angry-looking, anthropomorphic elephant chomping on a cigar and flexing an extremely well-muscled arm emblazoned with the letters “USA.” An audio track of an elephant’s roar starts up, and a banner below reads, “stomping liberals and RINOs [Republicans in Name Only] for our children’s future.”
Stompers founder Chad Nesbitt, a longtime local conservative activist, says the approach is intentional. “We’ve been listed as the Buncombe radicals; we’ve been labeled that by both the leadership of the Republican Party and the Democrats,” he notes. “There’s a lot of conservatives and Christians out here who have had enough of the way politics is in general, and they’re looking for someone to get out here and fight—and our organization is a fighter.”
A television and radio producer who’s the stepson of longtime state legislator Martin Nesbitt, Chad Nesbitt says growing up within the Democratic Party’s inner circles helped shape his conservative beliefs. “My entire family were Democrats. I’ve been to all these lavish dinners and cocktail parties up into my 20s.”
Since the Stompers’ formation in August, this aggressively right-wing group has grabbed headlines, churned out short films and television ads—and made no small number of enemies across the political spectrum. And if the Stompers are militant in their rhetoric, their detractors are equally harsh in their criticism, calling group members “ignorant” or “theocratic bigots.”
Meanwhile, the State Board of Elections is investigating charges that the group has broken campaign rules.
Undaunted, Nesbitt now hopes to take the Stompers to the next level—and he’s spoiling for a fight.
“The way things have been going—especially in the city of Asheville and the state, with the liberals running things … it’s been going down the tubes. That’s why we’ve taken such an aggressive stance,” he explains. “When you come to [the Carolina Stompers Web site], you can see that elephant chomping on his cigar, flexing his muscle. You can see he’s pro-U.S.A., and you can hear his trumpet roar. That’s to let people know that we’re out there, we’re supporting these kids—and we’re ready to do battle, if necessary.”
Hitting a nerve
The Stompers first made a splash at the state level in September, with ads blasting the Democratic Party’s annual Vance-Aycock Dinner. One of the event’s namesakes, Charles Brantley Aycock—the governor of North Carolina from 1901 to 1905—was an avowed white supremacist who participated in the 1898 Wilmington race riots that left at least 22 dead and overthrew a democratically elected city government. The ads struck a nerve, and State Treasurer Richard Moore, who plans to run for governor next year, urged the party to change the dinner’s name.
After Moore’s announcement, the Stompers declared victory, canceling a planned protest of this year’s fundraiser. But the ad also brought the Stompers to the attention of the State Board of Elections. North Carolina law requires groups endorsing or raising money for specific candidates to register as political action committees, which the Stompers haven’t done.
Unlike most political groups, the Stompers are set up as a for-profit corporation that aims to disseminate conservative opinions. According to Nesbitt, most of the Stompers’ funding comes from individual donations, membership dues—which range from $35 a year (for “Super Stompers”) to $500 (“Mega Stompers”)—and fundraisers. Because the group is so new, it doesn’t have official membership figures yet, but it plans to hold a membership meeting soon, he reports. The group’s members include former state Sen. R.L. Clark, former state Rep. John Rhodes and other longtime conservative activists and business owners.
Meanwhile, Nesbitt isn’t letting up. He’s planning a documentary on the Wilmington race riots, arguing that conservatism is a better bet for minorities.
“The Democrats, for years, have been lying to minorities—about their past and future. We want to bring attention to that and hope they’ll see the light and come join us conservatives,” he explains. “We find that more conservatives are on the Christian end, and we’ve found that most blacks are on the Christian end.”
Nesbitt isn’t the only longtime conservative activist who’s joined the Stompers.
Zora Hayes, who serves on the local Republican Party executive committee, says Nesbitt’s enthusiasm drew her to the group. The Stompers, she says, have prompted her to “re-enter the fray.” “We need to stomp out corruption,” she says. “The Democrats have been in power in the state and the county way too long.”
Another key concern for Hayes is “ending the killing fields of abortion. We wouldn’t need to import Mexican labor; our children could use those jobs.”
Buncombe County resident and perennial gadfly Don Yelton, who has also signed on, says the Stompers are going after the traditional power elite.
“Where I grew up, out in Jupiter, I remember the powers that be coming around and handing my father a slip of paper telling him who to vote for,” Yelton recalls. “Chad saw the other side of that—he was around the people writing up those slips of paper. Whatever your political belief, we can all be for more transparent and open government.” Group members, he notes, are a diverse lot: “Chad and I don’t always agree; all of us have different views.”
As for the promise to “stomp” liberals and “RINOs,” Yelton says that, too, is directed at the local powers that be. “If you look at who has the power in this county, it’s Democrats and a few select Republicans; that’s who we’re targeting. They should be open about what they’re doing with our tax dollars, whether it’s federal, state or local. If it’s a nonprofit, we should see where they’re getting their money from. I think we can all agree on that, whether you’re liberal, conservative, gay, straight, what have you.”
But Yelton’s emphasis on “getting people together” on common issues, as he puts it, contrasts starkly with the reactions from the objects of the Stompers’ rhetoric.
The Stompers’ ads have also sparked controversy at the local level. A spot posted on YouTube and aired on WLOS depicted then City Council candidate Elaine Lite participating in a protest with members of Coven Oldenwilde, a local Wiccan group, around a magnolia tree downtown that’s slated to be cut down by a developer.
The ad (which can be seen at www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iFmbrnhjt0) mockingly depicts “Pegan [sic] witches praying to a tree” and “Liberals hugging a tree.” It also zeroes in on Lite, identifying her as a City Council candidate—which she maintains is a violation of state campaign rules, since the Stompers aren’t registered as a PAC.
“It was obvious what they were trying to do, how degrading they were trying to be,” says Lite, calling the Stompers “hateful people” and the ad “asinine” in its approach. “They have no issues—that’s why they’re grasping at straws,” she asserts.
Nesbitt, however, says the ad didn’t particularly target Lite. “That’s a big misconception—it was showing how crazy this town’s become,” he explains. “Here’s a candidate who’s running for City Council and she’s dancing around a tree, hugging a tree with a bunch of pagans and liberals. That’s nuts.”
Nesbitt also says the Stompers’ status as a for-profit corporation is completely legal. “There’s certain things you can do as a corporation that you can’t do as a nonprofit,” he notes. “We’ve considered becoming a [political action committee], but we’d still be a corporation.” As for the banners for conservative candidates posted on the group’s Web page, they’re not endorsements, says Nesbitt. “If other candidates approach us and they’re conservative, we’ll put their banners up too.”
The State Board of Elections is investigating complaints about the Stompers, says Kim Strach, the agency’s deputy director for campaign reporting. Because the ad fingering Lite did not specifically endorse a candidate or encourage people to vote for a specific cause, “It’s not what we would call express advocacy” and thus didn’t violate election rules, she explains. But the state is continuing to look into “exactly what kind of group the Stompers are,” says Strach.
Religion is another a major issue for the Stompers, who list “Christian values” as one of their principal tenets. That was another thing that struck Lite about the ad.
“I’m not pagan personally, but what if I was? So what?” she asks. “This is old, tired tactics that play to people’s ignorance and fear. It’s time for a change.” Lite says she’d be willing to debate the Stompers—via YouTube (where they’ve distributed their videos), in public or through some other medium.
Nesbitt, however, says the Stompers see American culture as based on “Christian values,” not secular ones. “You look at our laws, most were based after the Ten Commandments,” he notes. “I’m glad that when our military is out there fighting for us, I know most of them are praying when they’re going into battle.”
Asked what he thinks about soldiers like Pat Tillman, an avowed atheist who left a pro-football career to join the Army Rangers and was killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan in 2003, Nesbitt notes: “He was fighting for this country, just like Christian soldiers are—fighting for religious freedom. That’s something you don’t have in a lot of other countries. I pray for his soul and for his family.”
Yelton, meanwhile, comes down more overtly on the side of religion. “When they took prayer out of the schools against the will of the majority, that’s when things really started crumbling,” he maintains. “Every civilization has prayed to some god.”
(Although federal law prohibits state-sanctioned prayer in public schools, individual prayer isn’t barred unless it disrupts a class or school activity.)
Would the Stompers ever consider cooperating with conservative adherents of other religions on certain issues? “I’ve never seen a pagan conservative; I’ve never seen a Muslim conservative,” says Nesbitt, adding, “The answer is no.”
Conservatives vs. libertarians
Blogger and activist Tim Peck says he finds the Stompers’ approach “juvenile and dishonest,” citing the anti-Lite ad as an example. Peck asserts that Nesbitt formed the Stompers to soothe his wounded ego after his unsuccessful bid to become chairman of the Buncombe County Republican Party.
In March, Nesbitt was bested by retired Army Col. Mike Harrison. The election, says Peck, represented a schism in the party between the more libertarian camp and “the hard-line religious right.” Nesbitt “and his cronies would harangue [Harrison] at every meeting of the executive committee.”
But Harrison stepped down under pressure about two months later, and in June, the executive committee named Mark Delk to serve out his term.
But according to Peck, who describes his own philosophy as libertarian, the struggle left Nesbitt with “a chip on his shoulder” that prompted him to found the Stompers. “He anticipated being the voice of the Republican Party and … the heir to that chairmanship,” Peck asserts. “When he couldn’t get it legitimately, he decided to create his own organization, which he would deem the ‘true Republicans.’”
Nesbitt paints a different picture, however. Though he denies that the infighting led to the formation of the Stompers, he adds, “We certainly felt like the leadership of the Republican Party wasn’t aggressive enough.”
He also takes a dim view of libertarians. And though he said at the time that he was satisfied with Delk’s appointment, Nesbitt went on to form the Stompers shortly afterward. He now labels both Delk and Harrison (both of whom, says Peck, tend more toward the libertarian camp) as RINOs.
For his part, Peck says the Stompers “have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to libertarians—and that comes from theocratic bigotry. Libertarians believe in limited government, individual rights and the free market.” But Stomper-style Republicans, “when they’re in power … support legislation that violates personal liberties, like your ability to engage in voluntary, nonviolent personal exchange between consenting adults—be that use of recreational drugs or sexual practices. They oppose gay marriage, they oppose homosexuality. … They’re moralistic, and it’s very dangerous. I think the Carolina Stompers exemplify everything that’s wrong about the Republican Party in Buncombe County.”
In Nesbitt’s eyes, however, the Stompers were created “to do what the Buncombe GOP should be doing.” As for libertarians, he calls them “a bunch of crackheads. Seriously, I’ve never seen anyone so intent on peddling dope to kids. When it comes down to it, the libertarians believe in no laws at all.”
Father vs. son
Nesbitt and his stepfather have frequently been on opposing sides of the issues. But the most recent direct clash involves the Stompers’ attack on a proposed amendment to the State Employees Nondiscrimination Act. Co-sponsored by Sen. Nesbitt, the amendment would add sexual orientation to the rights protected by the law.
Chad Nesbitt describes the Stompers’ opposition to the bill as part of a larger effort to combat the “homosexual agenda” and what he sees as its consequences.
“A teacher could go to school dressed as a transvestite and there’d be nothing the school principal could do about it,” says Nesbitt. “Same thing with bathrooms. If a guy thinks he’s a girl, he could go into the girls’ bathroom and there’d be nothing the parents could do about it. That’s wrong—that’s a mental problem these people have—and they’re trying to push it on our children.”
Yelton sounds a similar note, proclaiming, “I don’t care about someone’s private life. If you want to have sex with a duck, as long as you buy it and it’s of legal age, then that’s your business. But don’t push it on others.”
Asked to explain how the bill constitutes imposing one’s lifestyles on others rather than simply protecting employees from being fired for their sexual orientation, Nesbitt replied, “My wife’s a hairdresser, and in that line, we know people that are gay, but those people have never pushed their lifestyle on our family, and we’ve never pushed ours on theirs.”
The emphasis on what they see as threats to their children’s future pervades much of the Stompers’ rhetoric, from the Web site to their public statements. Indeed, Nesbitt says he realized he was a conservative the day his daughter came into the world. “When she was born, I realized that abortion was wrong and that entire philosophy that the Democrat Party’s been feeding me for all these years was a lie,” he says.
Another recent issue the Stompers got involved in concerns Leonard Smith, the former music director of the Sycamore Temple Church of God in Christ in Asheville. A sex offender, Smith had been offered a reduced sentence as part of a plea bargain. Nesbitt credited the plea bargain to Smith’s Democratic Party connections.
The Stompers also participated in a protest outside the courthouse organized by other groups, which attracted bipartisan support, including both conservative Asheville City Council member Carl Mumpower and left-wing former Council candidate Lindsey Simerly. Both Yelton and Nesbitt praised Simerly, a lesbian, for coming to the protest (which she attended with her girlfriend). In the aftermath, the plea bargain was withdrawn, and on Nov. 28, Smith was sentenced to 14 years in prison.
Asked about his relationship with his stepfather, Nesbitt said: “Martin and I don’t see each other except at Christmas. I’ll see my mother probably three times a day, but when I go over there, Martin’s either in Raleigh or with his racecar venture in Swannanoa. He’s rarely home. I doubt we’ll see him this Christmas after what we’re doing now.”
“Leading by example”
Although Asheville is heavily Democratic, Nesbitt says he thinks the Stompers can make inroads by appealing to what he sees as more traditional, conservative Democrats who are losing influence within their own party.
“The problem is that the old-time Democrats are dying out, and they’re being replaced by this liberal, socialist, even communist group,” he says.
Yelton, meanwhile, feels that what he sees as the Stompers’ patriotic message could resonate across the political spectrum. “We used to have the belief in this country that America is great,” says Yelton. “That’s disappeared. Whatever else you believe, you should agree on that. If we don’t believe we’re great, we can’t ever become great.”
Nesbitt said the reaction to the Stompers was immediate.
“We haven’t had our membership meeting yet; we’re still getting the word out,” he notes, adding, “We’re leading by example—and people are responding. We’ve gotten e-mails from Iowa, Georgia, all the way to Oregon asking, ‘How can we get Stompers in our state?’ We’re looking into that.”
For the moment, however, Nesbitt is setting his sights on South Carolina. He’s planning a “Cannonball Run” style fundraiser: driving to Raleigh, then Myrtle Beach, and then back to Asheville.
“Our cars will be decked out with stars and stripes. We’ll get a lot of media attention,” he predicts.
107 thoughts on “Fighting mad”
What a bunch of idiots.
If only Swain County had such a group to fight the Swain Machine that has had many problems in the time during and after last falls election.
I’m really excited about leaders who place religious beliefs about effective government. First they ridicule Paganism with the anti-Lite add, and now Chad is claiming that they would NOT EVEN CONSIDER working with OTHER CONSERVATIVES if they were Muslim or Pagan. That’s disgusting, and inherently Anti-American – religious intolerance is the tool of the lowest form of scum.
Of course, they’re OK with atheists & want to work against racism, so I’m sure they’re truly progressive where it counts, right? Moronic hypocrites. I hope they go bankrupt for violating anti-PAC laws, truly. Oh, that add didn’t target Lite? B.S. How stupid do you think we are, Chad?
As for libertarians, [Nesbitt] calls them “a bunch of crackheads. Seriously, I’ve never seen anyone so intent on peddling dope to kids. When it comes down to it, the libertarians believe in no laws at all.”
WOW! Nesbitt is REALLY talking some BS here! What a bunch of BULL!
It is actually the authoritarian Republicans AND Democrats (I now call “Neo-Cons & Neo-Coms”) like THEM, which apparently believe in “no laws at all”!
THEY are the ones who created a FAILED Federal War on Drugs which serves to strengthen drug cartels by creating an over inflated drug market which wouldn’t exist otherwise!
THEY are the ones who voted for the “USA PATRIOT ACT” which usurps individual American freedoms, belittling the LAW of the LAND!
THEY are the ones who instituted and continue to promote a fraudulent Income Tax system enforced by draconian measures and no real judicial recourse!
These and so many other AUTHORITARIAN actions directly transgress individual rights guaranteed by the Constitution and supposed to be upheld by those in office upon oath!
I am a libertarian sharing many of the same philosophy and values as GOP Presidential candidate, Ron Paul, who has been a Republican Congressman and champion of the Constitution for over 20 years.
DO NOT let these Neo-Cons deceive you! They are just as evil to America as the Neo-Coms, the Socialist “leftists”!
AMERIKA — WAKE UP!!!
Does this mean that Tim Peck is amoralistic or immoral?
If you are either then how will the society function.
Yep, I think the Stompers are on the right track. I am 70 years of age and born and raised in North Carolina and am sick of the liberal mess we have made of our goverment. Why Chad cannot have his own group to combat this beats me. I believe a for profit corporation can praise or ridicule anyone they like. If you don’t like the Stompers stay away from their website. Possum (roadkill)
“You look at our laws, most were based after the Ten Commandments,” he notes. “I’m glad that when our military is out there fighting for us, I know most of them are praying when they’re going into battle.”
Hmmm…i think i vaguely remember one of those 10 commandments saying something about Thou shalt not kill.
Nam if you and I get in a fight and you are determined to whip me and I love you and don’t defend myself who will win… your arguement is so empty that it exposes your beliefs are used to support only you and how is that progressive or fair or anything but justification of your position. Your thought overlook the orginal that stated do not take an innocent life.
Christ did drive out the money changers from the temple. Somehow I remember the destruction of the total world if you believe in the bible. And most other religions have their version of a flood too. mmm could it be that we repeat the problems of the past.
“Why Chad cannot have his own group to combat this beats me.” Beats me too. He can have his group, and I don’t believe anyone here has directly said that they ought to be disbanded.
However, until the laws about paying money to have adds publicly praising or ridiculing candidates during election season are changed, they ought to register as a PAC. Not doing so is playing dirty pool, regardless of which end of the partisan-spectrum they’re endorsing.
Just for the record – the Stompers won’t work with Pagans or Muslims. Will you work with Catholics? Buddhists? How about Jews? How about a Jew for Jesus? How bigoted are the Carolina Stompers?
Nesbitt has been a prima donna his whole life and he continues to be. His tanning bed days fried his pea brain. He’s well worth ignoring.
They should register as a PAC if only to shut up Lite’s tribe of whinning pissant losers.
Why is a group that has about 5 followers getting play in the Xpress? What, were the Urine Drinkers of WNC too busy for an interview?
Don, you are an idiot.
What a bunch of lunatics. But at least Zora Hayes wants to ensure that today’s American-born kids can get work as maids, laborers and fast-food workers.
These clowns are too funny. Thanks for the article. I needed a good laugh. I wonder if any of their members have an I.Q. that reaches triple digits? Naaaa.
I can’t wait to see what bigots you put on next week’s cover! No mention of so many things. It’s almost like you’re trying to provoke a reaction to substandard journalism.
And you say there’s no room for the Asheville City Paper.
For more on the Stompers, you can visit Scrutiny Hooligans.
Chad Nesbitt Advocates Discrimination: http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4395
On potential illegalites: http://www.scrutinyhooligans.us/?p=4152
On general silliness and bad grammar:
And the soon-to-be-headline: Mountain Xpress promotes bigots without offering all the facts.
Wow…..Our Founding Fathers would be rolling in there graves. Just like a Bush supporter….hey I got an idea lets just kill every one and then there would be nobody to bicker about….idiots….I can’t believe you would even waste paper ,ink, or time on these people….shame on you stompers ….Jesus would be so proud. I think I need to go vomit now.
Easy now, G. Gordon Lefty:
Sure, some would say it’s a little curious hearing this critique from someone who just started a policy institute named after a dyed-in-the-wool white supremacist whose bigotry goes unmentioned, thus far, in your organization’s literature, but I won’t go there.
I will go here, though: That story is not substandard journalism, it’s excellent journalism. It offers the first in-depth profile of a local group that has made headlines across the state. It details the State Board of Elections investigation of the group. It explores what many critics of the group have to say about the Stompers’ positions on religion, race, homosexuality, prayer in schools etc. It offers perspective from community members who think the group is bigoted, hateful and asinine — to say nothing of the pointed questions the author, David Forbes, put to the Stompers about some of their more controversial positions. Along the way, we also hear a lot from the Stompers themselves on all of the above topics.
So what part of that do you consider substandard? And you can rest assured that just because Xpress writes about a controversial group, it doesn’t mean anyone’s endorsing them. Have you read the article?
— Jon Elliston, managing editor
Well would you look at the pot calling the kettle black? Gordon, a founding member of the “VANCE policy institute,” — a so-called “progressive” group named for a man who argued that blacks were “inferior to whites and that only the discipline of enslavement made productive workers” — talking about who is promoting bigots!
real progressive there, dude.
Well, they say any publicity is good publicity, but I do think this piece was well-balanced, and not much of a promotion. It doesn’t attack the group, but it really shouldn’t; rather, it gave Chad the space to shoot himself in his foot, then stick that bloody foot in his mouth.
Gordon hates news that isn’t slanted his way. He’s no better than the Stompers.
“but I won’t go there”
What a funny thing to say after having gone there.
I’ve reread the article at your urging, and I think I was too quick to react. The article certainly inflates The Chad into a more important and better spoken person than he actually is, but I’ll back down and accept that Lite and Peck offer legit criticisms.
What’s left out of the article is the Stompers’ repeated efforts to conflate Democrats with pedophiles, homosexuals with pedophiles, Democrats with racism, etc.
The Stompers are abysmal thinkers and represent the worst that WNC politics have to offer. To put them front and center is to provide too great a platform. I’m serious when I wonder if you’ll highlight the impact of Stormfront or some other fringe group.
Regarding the Vance Policy Institute: Asking about why we chose the name might be a responsible first step for a journalist.
– excellence in policy and law
– great influence at a young age
– excellent oratory
– insistence on the Rule of Law. NC was the only southern state that didn’t suspend the writ of habeas corpus
– focus on religious tolerance
via Cecil: “As for the name “Vance” — it’s true old Zeb was a mixed bag. Like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington he was a slave-owner, yet unlike Abraham Lincoln he refused to cancel habeas corpus when all of the other Confederate states dumped that basic right. At the same time he was a staunch defender of Jews in an era when Jews were subject to widespread vilification and discrimination. The monument in Pack Square is iconic and celebrates the fact that one of Buncombe’s progeny became Governor and a U.S. Senator without too much focus on his shortcomings. We adopted the name as emblematic of this city and county, just as the U.S. capitol uses the name of Washington without thinking overmuch about his slaves.”
Liberal/secularists, when they try to destroy the biblical foundations of government (in the name of liberty yet!), end up creating a tyranny far worse than even they had ever imagined. The very word (tyranny) in its early Greek root (tyrannos), means “one who rules without the sanction of religious law,”
William Penn summarized it well when he said, “Men must choose to be governed by God or condemn themselves to be governed by tyrants”. Even our laws against murder and stealing have their roots in the Ten Commandments, and in the Judeo-Christian view of life and property.
I find the secular revisionist attempt at removing every vestige of our Christian heritage from the public square reprehensible, and a duplicitous, tactic to deceive the gullible. Especially in light of overwhelming historical documentation of the influence of Christian philosophy on the founding of this nation.
Now before the Socialist,liberal secularists burst a blood vessel and start foaming at the mouth, as they scream about separation of church and state, that does not mean that we should have a state run theocracy. Meaning a state religion. It does mean that we, as a nation and society should acknowledge the tremendous impact and influence of our Christian heritage.
This country has been massively influenced by the Judeo-Christian heritage. And that Christian influence is what has made us the country we are today. Most of our universities and colleges were founded by Christian ministries. The vast majority of our govenment buildings in Washington DC have quotes and engravings from the Bible in prominent display. The very structure of our civil government, which is “the separation of powers” came from the Christian Calvinist philosophy, and principled belief of the depravity of man. Meaning that if man “could” engage in evil acts against others he will. So do some research before trashing an organization that is just upholding our common American historical traditions.
Ben Franklin stated during the Constitutional Convention that “I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth—that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that “except the Lord build the House they labour in vain that build it.” I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building, no better than the builders of Babel.” Franklin then suggested daily prayers, led by one more Philadelphia clergymen. Footnote: Benjamin Franklin, quoted by James Madison in “Notes on Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787.
[I]t is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue.
(Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, 1854), Vol. IX, p. 401, to Zabdiel Adams on June 21, 1776.)
[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
(Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, and Co. 1854), Vol. IX, p. 229, October 11, 1798.)
So according to one of the subjects in the article would he also apply the term “theocratic bigotry” to the above Founding Fathers, because they dared to mention the Christian God? Seems some have deliberately and conveniently forgotten our foundational heritage, in order to further a radical agenda of a totally secularist society, never envisioned by the majority of our Founders.
“The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is also the first section of the Bill of Rights. It is arguably the most important part of the U.S. Constitution, as it guarantees freedoms of religion, speech, writing and publishing, peaceful assembly, and the freedom to raise grievances with the Government. In addition, it requires that a wall of separation be maintained between church and state. It reads:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”
Its origins in the Virginia Bill on Religious Freedom:
The roots of the First Amendment can be traced to a bill written by Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) in 1777 and proposed to the Virginia Legislature in 1779. 1 It guaranteed freedom of (and from) religion. After an impassioned speech by James Madison, and after some amendments, it became law on 1786-JAN-16. 2
How the first amendment was written:
In the spring of 1778, the Constitutional Convention was held in Philadelphia, PA. They resolved three main religious controversies.
Decided that there would be no religious test, oath or other requirement for any federal elected office
Allowed Quakers and others to affirm (rather than swear) their oaths of office
Refrained from recognizing the religion of Christianity, or one of its denominations, as an established, state church.
But there was no specific guarantee of religious freedom.
Jefferson was pleased with the constitution, but felt it was incomplete. He pushed for legislation that would guarantee individual rights, including what he felt was the prime guarantee: freedom of and from religion. Madison promised to promote such a bill, in order to gain support for the ratification of the constitution by the State of Virginia. In 1789, the first of ten amendments were written to the constitution; they have since been known as the Bill of Rights.
Thomas Jefferson: “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.”
FWIW, I thought this was an interesting article.
<>They: Decided that there would be no religious test, oath or other requirement for any federal elected office
Allowed Quakers and others to affirm (rather than swear) their oaths of office
Refrained from recognizing the religion of Christianity, or one of its denominations, as an established, state church.<>
Very good Gordon! I totally agree! So did you post the Jefferson quotes thinking I would disagree? Now you see, while those of us that believe our country, (through mountains of foundational documentation) was founded on Christian principles and philosophy. The socialist Left “WILL NOT” ever acknowledge there might be a hint of Christian influence in the founding of this nation. For the Left to do so might give Christianity a fraction of legitimacy in the dialog, concerning the founding of the nation. And they “sooo” can’t afford to do that. That would mean there might actually be something worthwhile about the Christian faith. It’s so oppressive you know. LOL
The wall of separation between Church and State was in a letter from Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, and is not written into the Constitution. Not trying to deceive people are you?
And it’s freedom “of” religion, not “from” religion. And the free exercise there of.
So Gordon, maybe you can answer the question of whether you consider the statements of Ben Franklin and John Adams, represents “theocratic bigotry?” Because according to the implications in the article, “no” mention of religion, faith, God, Christianity or the Bible can ever be tolerated when in association with, and in government public service. What nonsense!
Why would a supposedly “progressive” and inclusive newspaper put a militantly right wing group on their cover? It’s tantamount to endorsement.
“Easy now, G. Gordon Lefty:
Sure, some would say it’s a little curious hearing this critique from someone who just started a policy institute named after a dyed-in-the-wool white supremacist whose bigotry goes unmentioned, thus far, in your organization’s literature, but I won’t go there.”
LOL, right on Jon. Thanks for this above, and the article itself. You are so right. It is good journalism. And Gordon is the leftist side of the same coin: “our side is right and the other side are a bunch of idiots” fringe.
I myself think the Stompers hurt rather than champion conservative ideals. It appears several of the members could use some couch time with a therapist to explore their anger issues.
Agree or disagree with the Stompers tactics, the efforts of the past at, go-along to get-along by Republicans in Buncombe County has failed. Buncombe County has been Democrat for decades and it seems in the past, those few Republicans that were in the county felt that the only way to get a share of the power was to go-along to get-along.
And let me say, there can be a world of difference between a Conservative and a Republican. The two are not always the same. We have many Rockefeller Republicans, who are the liberal wing of the Party. Their God is money. They have no concern for national sovereignty if it interferes with commerce. That’s the reason we see people like Bill Kristol and Fred Barnes, two stalwart Republicans saying they are very liberal on immigration policies. That’s the reason Rush Limbaugh says some of the Party elite are trying to redefine conservatism into a more liberal Party. That course should be fought at every turn.
We are always cautioned to be “nice” don’t get in the Democrats face concerning their socialistic policies, and their corruption of the voting process. Well brother, if it takes an organization like the Stompers to wake people up, and shine the light on the corruption, where ever it’s found, then have at it. Sunshine, open dialog, and thorough examination of allegations is what it takes to clean up the corruption in Buncombe County, and through out the state.
Sage, they would do it to promote discourse. It’s worked. And if they don’t cover some right-wingers, they lose their credibility, especially when covering left-wingers. It works both ways, and journalism exists to be the neutral ground for ideas. I’ll rag on the Stompers, but I’d be acting in bad faith if I ragged on the MX for covering them.
But if one has a pre-conceived notion of the MX being a progressive paper…then there are expectations, which really aren’t in the best interest of the paper. And honestly, conversatives tend to discredit & not even listen to liberal papers, and the opposite is equally true. If the MX ever wants people to read them with an open mind, readers have to believe that they’re getting the whole, unbiased story, every time.
That said, if any more dirt needs to be thrown at these fools, I suggest writing a polite and intelligent letter that encompasses everything you feel was left out, and odds are you’ll see it in print soon enough.
After reading most of the diatribe here, I thought I’d visit the “Stompers” website.
I got to thinking… does Chat Nesbitt remind anyone else of Kramer (from Seinfeld) in the picture on the link below, or is it just me???
And also, BTW, the word “progressive” certainly should not be equated with the evil and Socialist “liberal” (and “Neo-Com”) agenda, any more than it would be equated with the evil and “Neo-Con” agenda!
“favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are,” is a biased definition.
often, things left alone are FAR better than screwing them up with “new” ideas – case in point, most of what much of American government at all levels has done over the past 150 years!
change for the sake of change is what is TRUELY idiotic!
Looks like someone is a little pissy that they didn’t make it on the cover of the Xpress. Maybe The City Paper will put you on the cover. You have a connection there. Then you and your think tank can get together and print your agenda…uh I mean… print that excellent journalism under the guise of The City Paper that the Xpress doesn’t seem to be providing.
By the way I remember seeing Osama bin Laden’s picture on Time magazine, by the logic I’ve seen on this thread by some, Time must support Osama bin Laden.
“I got to thinking… does Chat Nesbitt remind anyone else of Kramer…?”
I got a slightly different impression:
I think David Forbes journalism is fair and balanced. He showed both sides of the issue.
Journalism should always be about putting out the truth, informing people of the truth, and investigating the truth. The truth was brought out very well in this article.
I also think the reason the Democrats and Libertarians gripe so much about the Stompers is because they have never had anybody dish it back to them. I don’t think the Stompers are militant, they just seem that way to opposing view points.
I think everyone can agree the Stompers did the right thing in bringing attention to the Vance Aycock Dinner’s name. Their flare for the dramatic was a little overboard but it got my attention.
Asheville being weird is cool but dancing around that tree was freaky. I have to admit, that commercial was LOL funny.
Glad to see an organization put some fun back into politics. Great article.
“I also think the reason the Democrats and Libertarians gripe so much about the Stompers is because they have never had anybody dish it back to them.”
Yeah, think again.
Listen to Democrats and [l]ibertarians griping:
What I find funny is that people seem to think The Stompers represent some paradigm shift in political discourse. They are no better or worse than the typical partisan rhetoric that liberals such as myself are also guilty of engaging in. What’s new about this?
“Why is a group that has about 5 followers getting play in the Xpress? What, were the Urine Drinkers of WNC too busy for an interview?”
because the xpress new it would generate tis many online comments…
Does anyone else think it’s really wierd and telling that the Stompers are obsessed with the Folsam Street Fair? (Looking at their website) I mean, not only do they describe, in detail, what goes on at this fair but have it all on video tape and encourage others to watch it! I bet Chad and Don have had to watch it hundreds of times to prove how against it they are.
Looking at other comments and blogs, it looks as if Mr. Peck is an atheist.
Why is a Libertarian and a atheist so concerned with the Republican Party?
Please explain Mr. Peck.
As a past delegate from the Buncombe County Democrat Party, atheists have taken over certain areas of the Asheville political spectrum.
Most atheists are gay activists that find Christianity their largest obstacle in equality.
I remember Mr. Nesbitt’s warning of an upcoming young progressive movement in Asheville.
We thought we could mentor these young Democrats. We were wrong. The parents of the young were not from WNC.
I take it from this article that Mr. Nesbitt has tried to tell the Republicans to watch out for the Libertarians.
“Looking at other comments and blogs, it looks as if Mr. Peck is an atheist. Why is a Libertarian and a atheist so concerned with the Republican Party? Please explain Mr. Peck.”
Certainly, Mr. oldtimedonkey.
1. I am not an atheist.
2. Nor am I a member of the Libertarian Party.
3. I am as concerned about the Republican Party as I am about the Democrat Party.
<>Does anyone else think it’s really wierd and telling that the Stompers are obsessed with the Folsam Street Fair? (Looking at their website) I mean, not only do they describe, in detail, what goes on at this fair but have it all on video tape and encourage others to watch it! I bet Chad and Don have had to watch it hundreds of times to prove how against it they are.<>
So Carrier, I guess when the flaming “anti-war” leftists post war related videos on their site, it means they support war. Right?? I’ll be sure to remember that next time I see a sign against the war, or a video of war, and fighting posted on any of the ant-war web sites. LOL!
Native, I don’t know what a “flaming anti-war leftist” is. Just like I didn’t know what a baby Jesus [self-pleasuring device] was. That is until Chad blogged about it. I find it funny that some of the people that scream the loudest, homophobic, religious-based reasons for fear and hatred and are in some form of political arena, are found later to be homosexuals or involved in some scandal. You never see people screaming anti-war later found to be secret war supporters, do you?
Maybe it is just me, but no matter what is happening now or has happened in the past in Asheville politics, Chad Nesbitt and the Carolina Stompers are severely late to this rhetorical party. The Republican ship of state that Karl built has hit an iceburg and is going down.
Thanks Xpress, for pouring gasoline on an open fire, thereby giving this raving egomaniac, a “legitimate” platform from which to spew his evil hatred of all but his own kind. There is no place for his kind of uncivilized discourse any more in our fractured society. He is what Dick Cheney calls a “dead ender”, a “23 percenter”, in the final death throws for his cause. Let us all hope his hate burns so very brightly, fueled by his contempt of all of those around him, and that he incinerates rapidly like so much trash. If that’s the case, then, thanks again Xpress.
What is this “Democrat (democratically) controlled Buncombe County.” Outside of the last year, Chainsaw Charlie “controlled” the area for fifteen years. The fact is, the majority of the country is progressive. If we didn’t have the electoral college republic leaders would have almost no chance at the presidency. I realize this is a constitutional republic, and not a true democracy. However, if we are spreading democracy in the middle east (Iraq), maybe we should start here. Everyone’s vote should count once, whether they’re in Idaho or New York.
<>Native, I don’t know what a “flaming anti-war leftist” is. Just like I didn’t know what a baby Jesus [self-pleasuring device] was. That is until Chad blogged about it. I find it funny that some of the people that scream the loudest, homophobic, religious-based reasons for fear and hatred and are in some form of political arena, are found later to be homosexuals or involved in some scandal. You never see people screaming anti-war later found to be secret war supporters, do you? <>
So what your saying is, if your against pedophilia that must mean your secretly a child molester. Right?
Your analogy misses the mark.
It looks like the problem of a group of bigoted, intolerant people that show such hatred for another groups beliefs would be of concern to you. As seen in the Folsom Street video on the Stomper site. I mean the Left is always spouting off about tolerance, and inclusion. Where’s the outrage against the homosexuals defacing and disparaging someone else’s beliefs? But I guess the tolerance factor only goes towards certain preferred groups. Now who is really being hypocritical?
Is this politics or Pro Wrestling? If it’s wrestling I get to be one of the Fabulous Freebirds. I’ll say that Chad and his stompers get to be Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Andre the Giant, and the One Man Gang. While Gordon and his ilk are Ric Flair, Sting, Lex Lugar, and Big Van Vadar.
Either way, you still get to name call, and the rest of us get to laugh.
Gordon calls Vance a “bigot”, yet I bet he reveres a man mistakenly thought of as a statesman and one of our best presidents. Bigotry was common in the mid 19th century, and lives on today in many forms. Regional bigotry, as in thinking your region,say the northest, is superior to another region, say the southeast. Political bigotry and hatred aimed at those who disagree with your political point of view. Here is a quote which may surprise many northerners who have been lied to about the nature of the War Between The States.
“”I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”
I noticed Chad has a tattoo on his arm. I guess he only believes that certain parts of Leviticus 19 are the literal word of Gawd?
Look into the eyes of the cobra…
What’s next on the plate for dem quazy Stompers?
“Love all men as God, even if they hurt you or shame you. Be like Gandhi and Christ.”
-Sri Neem Karoli Baba
shanti shanti shanti
Peace peace peace
Native: I wasn’t making an analogy I was stating as fact. Everything I said was true. I’m sure you can come up many more analogies yourself in order to change the subject but it has nothing to do with what I said.
Bugg: Can I be Ricky Steamboat?
No Carrie, you may not. But you can be one of the British Bulldogs.
Fine! But you have to be cheating ref, Danny Davis. I don’t think you’ll mind.
My heatfelt thanks and blessing to you all.
Durring times like these, I find great comfort and inspiration from my dear friend Guptah.
Please click on her link: http://www.rubberchickencards.com/content.php/action/play_card/id/626/
We can only hope that Mountain Express will feature a person or group that is about spreading Love to the world to balance out this hate.
OM SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI
Peace and blessing to you all,
All of you are missing the point,You are more interested in taking center stage.
When I was in Leicester Elementary we said the blessing evey day,the pledge of allegance to a flag hung on a wall,not on a tv screen.We memorised the 23rd psalm.That was in 1975.When we did wrong we were punished for it.We knew there were concequeinces to our actions.
Teachers are not allowed to disipline,so students are missing a chance at educations and values while you stand around shouting at eachother.You have not our childrens future at interest.
And maybe all of you would learn a good leason if you would read ‘Revelations’
Ya know its the last book in the bible,
and for those of you that have problems with soldiers fighting for your freedom in Iraq.I have a suggestion,Why dont you spend your Holidays with OSAMA.
AND DONT BOTHER COMING BACK>
Americans believe in’GOD WE TRUST’
If you dont GET OUT!!!!!!!
What’s true Carrie is, there are scumbag hypocrites everywhere. And there always will be till the end of time.
Lets see, we have Bill Clinton’s piggish behavior towards women. While he espoused feminist policy positions – but then because he was pro-choice and mouthed all the right platitudes, none of his actions mattered to the Left. Power was what mattered and they would sacrifice any woman to keep it. Then we have John Kerry and John Edwards, whose left wing policies apparently insulate them from the charges of the rich oppressing the poor. Rich Republicans are condemned, but rich Democrats are immune from criticism by the Left.
It’s worth noting that the Left designate as hypocrites only those with whom they disagree on policy matters, or social issues. The Left gets a pass on their hypocrisy.
As Francois Duc de la Rochefoucauld famously quipped, “hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue,” its existence constitutes at least an implicit acknowledgment that virtue matters. And some vestige of ethical and moral behavior is just what Conservatives, aspire to, even if we fail, as were all prone to do.
And there’s one thing for sure, you can “never” be accused of hypocrisy, or violating certain standards of behavior when you don’t have any standards to begin with.
The anti-war crowd, no matter what they espouse, and given their Bush derangement syndrome, along with their acts of violence on occasion, “would” in my opinion, and with the likelihood for success, commit war like acts of violence to get what they wanted. Which is to remove Bush and Cheney, and impose a socialistic style of government. No the anti-war crowd cannot claim the moral high ground, they just hide what they really are behind rhetoric. We see the true Liberal “anti-war, non-violent intent” in the silencing of anyone that does not agree with their viewpoint. People are shouted down, and not allowed to speak on many college, and university campuses because their views do not match the Liberal line of thought. And sometimes the heckling descends into yelling, screaming, kicking and punching, and then the rushing of the stage to stop the speaker. So stop with the “oh we anti-war people “never” commit violence.” Yeah Right!
On behalf of all of us at Carolina Stompers we would like to thank the Mountain Xpress for this feature article. David Forbes did a great job. He showed both sides of a political division. But most of all he told the truth which is what good journalism is all about. Thank you to Jonathan Welch as well. He is a great photographer. Although my ugly mug probably broke his camera when he took my picture
in that 25 degree weather.
I usually tell the liberals off in these comment sections. Just ask Gordon Smith. He is the biggest cry baby in town. But since our phone has been ringing off the hook (because of this article),
I’m going to dialog a little.
In reading the comments, it’s funny how liberals try to make me out as a religious zelick.
I was in the bar business for years and my favorite drink is scotch and water. Chevas Regal to be exact.
Yeah, I have a tattoo. Yoo Hoo! Big deal. I am a common sense guy who has had enough of the liberals pushing people around and destroying Americas future.
I think the Stompers speak for the norm. Most Americans just want to be left alone.
Most parents teach their children morals and if they teach them morals parents learned them in church.
When we see the leftist agenda having sex in the middle of the street in front
of children (Folsom Street) that’s immoral.
When we see a Buncombe District Attorney plea bargain a case because the defendant (a pedophile) has political ties that’s immoral.
When liberals lie to minorities about their past and future just to get their vote is immoral.
Immoral is intimidating people that hold true to the traditions, principles, and values of the United States.
Liberals are like school bullies. If you let them intimidate you, you will constantly get beat up and loose your lunch money.
Pssst… I have a secret for you liberals. We have had enough of you rubbing our kids future in the dirt. It’s 3 o’clock. The school bell has rang, everybody is watching and
the Carolina Stompers are waiting
for you on the playground.
Founder – Carolina Stompers
“Immoral is intimidating people that hold true to the traditions, principles, and values of the United States.”
You may want to go back to school Chad and get you some more learnin’ bout the good ol’ US of A.
What’s a “religious zelick?” A cross between Woody Allen in ZELIG and Tom Selleck?
This guys is a joke… in a scarey way.. gel in hair, gold chains, cobra tatoo, and sleeveless shirt. this makes me want to listen to this guy..
Native: Yes! Then we’re agrred. There are scumbag hypocites everywhere and always will be. The difference is, I’m not looking at any particular party or affiliation. People could go on all day about whose party has more disgusting people in the end it is the one screaming the loudest in public while doing the opposite in private that are the most vile of them all.
Now, for the important question…what wrestler do you want to be? I’m quessing it isn’t the Iron Shiek.
your assertions are laughable. The idea that minorities have been duped by liberals smacks of your beleif that those silly minorities are incapable of understanding the complexities of life. Minorities tend to vote for Demoocrats because that is their choice, not out of ignorance. Just as wealthy people tend to vote Republican because their Presidential candidates are white men, and they find it comforting. Also, oyour assertion that people learn morality in church, would lead one to beleive that people who don’t go to church are all immoral, as well as, the assumption that all of the people in church are moral. I don’t think I need to reference Sen. Craig or Catholic priests to make my point. Lastly, I have never heard a Liberal that wanted to silence conservatism. It is through allowing you to speak that your ignorance comes to light. I would like to see more progressive radio stations allowed to compete across the country, but never at the expense of silencing an opposing view. We welcome an exchange of ideas that the public can mull over, not the monopoly of ideas that you profess. Your desire to stomp out liberalism shows the fear you have of an honest debate. We need both sides of the debate for a healthy political system. Politics is the art of compromise, not domination.
Ray Mysterio. Hands down. Mexican wrestling masks are the coolest things in the world.
And now, I’m off to rub my kids face in the dirt.
Sorry. Future. Rub his future in the dirt. Sorry.
Is that anything like encrusting? Or breading? Are we planning on deep-frying the future? How horrible!
Liberals, stop, before it’s too late! Don’t deep fry the future in dirt! No matter what Dennis Kuchinich might have told you, the future is not delicious! Especially if you rub dirt on it.
That’s just gross.
Green may be the new Green, but it’s not the new funny.
Also to the Chad Nesbitt: I don’t agree with what you are saying but, I’m willing to give you some advice: stop replying to these threads. If anyone is on the fence about how they should feel about you, it is immediately ruined when they see your poor grammar and spelling. Do yourself a favor and buy a dictionary and a copy of The Elements of Style by William Strunk Jr. and E.B. White.
Funny how these conservative morons keep tying morals to religion. Yup, one can only have good values if ones goes to church. What a load of crap. Morals and ethic is something you have or you don’t and it certainly has nothing to do with belonging to any dope/cult/sect organization. You want to be a good Christian Chad?
Knock yourself out man. But stop insulting other people’s intelligence. Of course, if you had intelligence to start with then you could not possibly be a Christian or belong to any religion.
Pat Tillman fought and died for ‘Religious Freedom’? Huh? jeez…is it just me thinking we are only there for oil?
Oh and loved that Zora Hayes comment ‘ending the killing fields of abortion’.
I am looking at that picture of all you good moral folk.
hmm…abortion would have been a good thing is what comes to mind.
Pat, you’re REALLY not helping your cause with that last bit about abortion.
What cause would that be Green?
Having a personal problem with abortion eh?
Having scary narrow minded people like Chad Nesbitt around is …well worrisome to say the least. But then they always have been around and always will.
Another observation. I was looking at that underdeveloped head of his and could not help seeing a similarity with our great fearless leader mr. Bush. Another brainless Stomper.
Ah,please spare me from those who consider their heads to be “developed”. And like Pat espouse abortion, the killing of a growing baby in the womb. Or high taxation and big, over-reaching government structure so that “developed” people can tell me how to live my life. The “developed” evidently think the average guy on the street is incapable of living his own life, without their help. Therefore, the “developed” will tax you high so they can decide how your money is spent. The “developed” will then spend your tax dollars telling you how to eat, what not to drink, what not to smoke, what transportation to take to work etc. Then spend your tax money on expanding their government fiefdom with more like-minded “developed” socialist minds, and build more parks, and of course find the final solution to “homelessness”: give everyone food shelter and clothing….with working people’s tax money. :)
No thanks, I’ll take America at it’s libertarian, traditional best…warts and all. Socialism is a bitter pill and the great majority of Americans do not want it. Call me “undeveloped” if you must, it’s only a word. By the way Pat, would you have been in favor of your own mother having the “choice” of stopping your beating heart in her womb?
“and for those of you that have problems with soldiers fighting for your freedom in Iraq.I have a suggestion,Why dont you spend your Holidays with OSAMA.
AND DONT BOTHER COMING BACK>
Americans believe in’GOD WE TRUST’
If you dont GET OUT!!!!!!!”
OK – this is a quote from Kim about ten messages back.
Could you explain to me exactly how the soldiers in Iraq are fighting for OUR freedom?
I mean with facts and stuff?
You know Nam Vet.
This is probably not the place to discuss abortion but I do want to say this.
No sane person can honestly feel good about killing a growing baby. Is it the killing of a human being? Sure it is. No doubt about it.
But how is it different than killing thousands of innocent civilians in any given war?
How is it different than sending thousands of our boys to their dead … for absolutely nothing else than protect big money?
How is it different than exploiting poor countries in order to sustain our own wealth and thereby keeping millions of people in sub-human conditions and effectively killing them?
There is not much difference in my book. It’s killing people. Period.
I look at pro-lifers and see nothing else but a bunch of religious hypocrites. They prefer to ignore that we kill thousands of people EVERY single day. But hey, let’s go to church and be good cristians. Bollocks.
To me there can be plenty of reasons why a child would be better off not to be born. (think growing up being born from a crack-mother etc. the list is long).
BTW, the way things are turning in this world…I am starting to have doubt if it was wise to have kids myself. Let’s see where we are 20 years from now and hope they have air and water.
<>Native: Yes! Then we’re agrred. There are scumbag hypocites everywhere and always will be. The difference is, I’m not looking at any particular party or affiliation. People could go on all day about whose party has more disgusting people in the end it is the one screaming the loudest in public while doing the opposite in private that are the most vile of them all.
Now, for the important question…what wrestler do you want to be? I’m quessing it isn’t the Iron Shiek.<>
Glade to see we agree. The individuals caught in blatant hypocrisy deserves whatever they get, in spades.
The charge of “hypocrisy” has become a catch-all indictment for the Left, especially when it comes to sex. It allows them the luxury of condemnation without the responsibility of reaching a judgment about the morality of the underlying behavior.
Sorry, wrestling is much to violent for me.
true native: You just couldn’t help yourself, could you? Telling you use the word “caught”. Funny to me how the Right thinks it has a catch-all indictment on morality. The Church is the biggest proponent of organized child molestation this country has ever seen. Oh yeah. I use the word “proponent” specifically to point out how the Church has systematicaly used its power to molest children over and over and perpetuate its depravity throughout American history. Chad is mad at Liberals for ruining children? HA! How about we don’t want your disgusting ways in our home. I would never allow a priest near my child.
Pat, you brought up abortion first, in a preceding thread. I am glad you see the immorality of abortion, on face value. Then you justify tolerating it by accusing all those who are pro-life of being pro-war? Pat, that is not logical debate. One does not intersect with the other. And to say all pro-lifers are pro-war is just plain ridiculous. Most everyone is anti-war. Some believe war is occasionally a necessary evil, like in WWII. I personally hate war, having been in one and first hand witnessed the ugliness of it. So my stance is, only go to war as a last result. And that leaves out Kennedy/Johnson’s Vietnam, and this current Bush Iraq War. And perhaps Truman’s Korea as well. Huh, ironic that 2 of the last 3 unnecessary wars were started by democrats? :)
And I am personally against abortion-on-demand for the “convenience” of the pregnant woman. If a woman does not want to keep the baby, there are plenty of adoption agencies who will gladly take the child. And my statement still stands. All those in favor of abortion, take the gut-check challenge: should your mother have had the “choice” of aborting you in her womb?
Oh, and back on thread topic, the Stompers do more harm than good to their cause because they come out “swinging” with such farout, wild assertions that “the other side” are a bunch of jerks. Hum, sounds like they are the other side of the coin to the far leftwing who are guilty of the same thing. Nix them both I say. :)
I don’t want to be in your cage match unless I can be George “The Animal” Steele. I don’t think George has any tag team partners.
All killing is immoral. And I mean ALL. I think we might agree on that.
I think we also might agree on that there are times where killing is a necessary evil. (self-defense, preventing a larger loss of life, ending a suffering are a few reasons that come to mind).
Sorry but I can’t see where I tied pro-life with pro-war.
The point I was making was about hypocrisy and how so many ‘good Christians’ rally against abortion but look the other way when killing keeps their SUV on the road.
It’s ok when the killing happens thousands of miles away but it’s not ok when we can prevent a child and mother from being thrown into miserable lives.
Funny how so many pro-lifers seem to be far removed from realities like drug use, poverty etc.
And of course, talking about killing, we have not even touched on the meat industry :-) (no, I am not a vegetarian tree hugger )
Sorry, just having a hard time with hypocrites who bring their god and religion into everything while thinking they have a claim on morals.
Democrats, Republicans…com’n Nam Vet…you know it’s all crap. Both sides stink of corruption, self indulgence and all are after the mighty dollar. Stompers just alike (although Chad seems to have a fair share of bling-bling already :-)
Well Pat I am happy to see we both agree that both major parties are full of it…hypocrisy and corruption. All of us are hypocrites to some extent because we are human. But it is plain to see that many of our politicans of both parties are extreme examples.
By the way, I am firmly opposed to the meat industry. The slaughter business is cruel and nasty. And unnecessary. We do not need to eat dead animal body parts to have good nutrition. In fact, heavy meat consumption is the cause of many illnesses in this country. I am a lacto-vegetarian who occasionally eats fish when I dine out. To kill the cow after it has given us milk, cheese, yogurt, ice cream, is a supreme insult.
I had to read this article again just so I could get it straight.
Mr. Peck feels the Stompers are bad for the Republican Party.
Today I read the Republican platform. It looks like the Stompers are following this platform.
I have not herd this much fighting spirit from local conservatives since
Reagan ran for president. The Stompers seem to be bringing attention to the Republican party.
I don’t quite understand Mr. Pecks thoughts.
“I don’t quite understand Mr. Pecks thoughts.”
Joe Dunn understood. That’s good enough for me.
Nam Vet, you wrote,
“To kill the cow after it has given us milk, cheese, yogurt, ice cream, is a supreme insult.”
I’d like to put forward that it’s a supreme insult NOT to.
Listen, if you’re willing to eat (all those wonderful) dairy products, then you should realize there’s lots of death going on in dairy. Those cows are making milk to feed babies. Lots of the calves get killed as day olds, some for veal 8-12 weeks later, and some go on to be replacement cows making us dairy products. It’s wonderful. But that’s just my take.
To go on about how dairy is good but killing the cow isn’t is nothing less than hiding one’s head in the sand. If you’ve agreed to have the cow, then you’ve agreed to the killing. At that point, it would be wrong not to.
Sorry if this is off-topic.
So, just to be legitimate….back to the matter at hand….
The Stompers are complete idiots. No doubt there.
WHAT A GREAT COUNTRY!!!!!
Johnny, your bonepick here doesn’t even deserve a response. So I won’t even comment about your cow killing rant. Perhaps your assertion that “The Stompers are complete idiots” is projection on your part. Seems like a good fit to me. :)
Caught, exposed, uncovered, found out. Whatever! Don’t expect me to defend wolves in sheep’s clothing that profess a belief and virtue, that their behavior indicates they do not hold, or possess. And that includes the Right, or the Left.
The only way fallible mortal man can assesses a persons moral compass is by their behavior. Or, as the scripture says by their fruits. Does anyone really know anybody? We are all sinners and hypocrites to one degree or another. Just like when the Left espouses tolerance and acceptance for every other belief system, and faith “except” Christianity. Just look at the silence from the Left when Christianity is mocked and disparaged at places like the Folsom Street Fair. I believe some on the Left would kill Christians if they could get away with it. As they hide behind their rhetoric of tolerance and inclusiveness.
Did anyone say conservatives have the corner on morality? What part of “we are all fallible sinners don’t you understand?” But because we all fail, does not mean we should lower the bar, or have no standards at all for honest, ethical, and moral behavior. And that goes for the Left, as well as the Right. St. Augustine observed that “truth” is loved when it enlightens, and hated when it accuses.
Ironically, when Christians violate their own moral principles, it is their own worldview that provides the basis for moral judgment. And to be held accountable for their actions. Where is the moral outrage from the Left, when their own misbehave?
It seems the Left wishes to live in a culture that promotes “no judgments” concerning moral behavior, (except when it comes to Conservatives)and that approves of selfish and base pursuits, promoting an indiscriminate tolerance. Regardless of how it effects the fabric of society. If this standard continues, then there will be no constraints on moral behavior at all.
Because you can only be a hypocrite if you violate standards that you promote or judge, and liberals rarely promote or judge personal behavior.
The moral preoccupations of the Left almost exclusively concerns social positions. Liberals judge people by their positions on global warming, not by how they behave.
It seems the Left lives in fear of the prospect of having to live in a culture that demands personal restraint, personal responsibility and accountability? Like ’em or not, the “Carolina Stompers” are fighting for those principles.
By the way, Merry Christmas!
Hey, nice cartoon.
Nam Vet, just pointing out a little moral problem with your dairy logic.
Do with it what you will.
No moral problem with me Johnny. Milk a cow and the animal is not hurt. I give back my gratitude by not supporting it’s being killed, cutup, and eaten as “food”. That is a moral failure in my book, plain to see. The Hindus in India have been using milk products for 1000s of years…and they are vegetarian. They show their appreciation for the life-affirming milk by respecting the cow. Cows are allowed to roam free as people do. I like their take.
Nam Vet, what happens to the bull calves in your happy no-death dairy?
They are raised and used a “studs” to make more cows, dummy. Extra male cows? SOLD as studs to other dairy farmers. Simple. Of course when you come from a dead-animal-body-part thinking mode, I guess you can be an idiot savant for the meat-eating masses. You CAN think for yourself, Johnny. Give it a try. I know you can. In the meantime, go on eating the flesh of red blooded mammals as if you are still a neanderthal. You can always rationalize it somehow, right? :)
Hilarious, Nam Vet.
I bet fewer than 2% of male dairy calves go on to become breeders. I thought you “grew up” on a dairy farm, no? Had you not heard of artificial insemination?
Male dairy calves are killed as day-olds sometimes, go for veal other times, and are raised for beef in fewer instances as it takes longer to raise them to maturity compared to beef breeds. Raising them for breeding is an exceptionally small part of how they are “used”.
I don’t have a problem with it, and could care less if you eat dairy or not, but please don’t go on thinking you’re free somehow of the killing involved.
“I don’t have a problem with it, and could care less if you eat dairy or not, but please don’t go on thinking you’re free somehow of the killing involved.”
“Please”? LOL, so who elected you an expert in this matter? Have you first hand knowledge of what you allege? That may be the case in large corporate operations, to supply the demand you dead body eating flesh lovers crave. But not on small farms, certainly not the organic ones I buy from. You rationalize your dead animal body part consumption any way you like, but you are dead wrong to judge lacto-vegetarians as supporting it in some way. Cows are not harmed in the milking process. They are killed for those who like the taste of their flesh. THAT is where the blame lies. The demand created by the veal, steak, and hamburger eaters.
Hey, Nam Vet, I know that cows are not harmed in the milking process, but regardless of farm size or whether they’re organic or not there’s plenty of death involved. And, guess what, you’re purchasing that death by being on the “demand” side of the equation.
If no one purchased milk, then no dairy cows would be killed for meat.
First hand experience? Yep, years and years of it, brother. Twenty one total in fact. I’ve worked on five different farms with dairy animals, ranging from 2 cows to 200 cows and numbers in between. I have an ag. degree and graduate level coursework in animal science. All told, I think that gives me enough background to speak to the issue with actual facts.
What’s with the names? Calling me dummy, idiot-savant, Neanderthal, etc. I thought you were all about the love and meeting people with a smile.
Where’d that go, buddy?
Oh, and the other sources of meat supplied by the dairy industry (again, from farms large and small), are the cows that go for burger upon being culled from the herd and the exceptionally small number of bulls that are culled once their service life is finished.
Show me a dairy farm of ANY commercial scale whatsoever in the United States where the examples I have given you are not found.
Again, I have no problem with you being a lacto-vegetarian, but I don’t think it’s right to be proclaiming how there’s not any death on your hands. I recommend accepting that fact and changing diets accordingly, or acknowledging there’s killing of dairy animals for meat and that you’re ok with it.
For some reason people think there’s something “more OK” about dairy because the main product does not require killing. Upon further examination, however, there’s actually more death in dairy than there is in beef production because of the shortened productive life of the dairy cow (in its modern “interpretation”).
Johnny, again, how you draw a guilt complex to dairy consumption is beyond me. That is in the realm of actually eating the cow’s dead flesh. I wonder why you are carrying this point so far? Do you feel some kind of guilt? Examine yourself. I do love animals and that is why I do not eat their flesh. As far as any points further you want to make, this life isn’t perfect. We can only lead our lives as best we can. I have no problem using dairy products because there is no harm to the animal in obtaining the life-affirming milk products. The ancient Hindus have been consuming dairy for eons…and they are strict vegetarians. I agree with them. Happy New Year to you. And I do hope I meet you sometime on the street with an eye to eye gaze and a smile.
The Hindus have been killing millions of male calves for years, Nam Vet. India is a large exporter of leather as well.
If Hindus drank less milk there’d be less male calves killed as a result. Same would be the case here.
Yes, lots of little complexities in our imperfect life.
Have a good new year yourself. Cheers.
Johnny you are so full of it. Hindus are strict vegetarians and do not kill male cows. Period. I think you’ve moved into the troll zone now. Subject closed.
An exceptionally minor bit of internet search work will show you otherwise, Nam Vet. There’s a site called Google, another called Wikepedia, in fact there’s several others as well that will get you the information.
India has a flourishing dairy industry. That means it has a flourishing male calf killing industry. Total cattle slaughter estimates for 2003 were 10 million head.
Look it up, dude.
Nam Vet appears to have no use for facts or experience. Although I give him ten points for not ever admitting he’s wrong.
You have to hand that to him.
10 points duly awarded
and I’m outta this one (at last)
Huck-Obama-boom-boom…. how ’bout that shit?
If you study the rise of the Nazi and Hitler you can see many parallels to these folks rhetoric. Stomper Style Republicans=SSR?
Hitler promised the masses to do away with useless intellectuals, poets, pagans, liberals, homosexuals, mixed race, artist and played on peoples fear of the decline of order and stability. They burnt books, outlawed free speech and assembly. They became an efficient conservative machine bent on “cleansing the world”. Many parallels to the hate groups we see feeding the fundamentalist agenda, a covert initiation of a holy war in this country. If this happens, you can kiss our beloved Bill of Rights and Constitution goodbye. Our founding fathers warned against this, indeed wrote much regarding the dangers of a theocratic state. Vote and write our officials and newspapers. These new brown shirts depend on a cultivated apathy and your silence. Remember history? These types of reformations can happen very quickly if not watched and avoided. “Live free or Die”, ponder also that there are many types of death and there are many groups that are out for blood. If not spiritual blood then actual blood. For a true fundimentalist thinks their God wants this and their reward is in heaven. Very powerful motives and such people will stop at nothing to aquire such insurance. After all in their beleife system what is the alternative? Hell? So they create a hell on earth as a reflection of that belief. We have seen this over and over again. So my best advice is not to underestimate any new ultra conservative group. They can thrive in the dark corners of unknowing. Watch and listen, legally resist where appropriate. If you have a faith, pray they embrace love and some type if middle path. I think order and liberty can co-exist. It just takes more creative thinking and work than either a free for all or martial law. We can do this and work together to create balance.
I knew Chad Nesbitt since we were kids and went to school with him. I always felt a little sorry for the guy, because on one hand, he wasn’t a bad person — I would even say a nice guy in a quirky sort of hard-to-tolerate way. But at the same time it was very clear that he was always struggling to be popular when he was not, trying to be accepted in ways he never would. In fact I’d say the sole reason for the lack of social acceptance toward him was simply that he tried too hard, folks could sense it, and just went out of their way to avoid him.
So, while the whole right-wing radical routine is a bit surprising to me knowing his philosophies on life when he was younger (always struck me as liberal minded), I would say its one of those situations where he only partially believes the crap he says. What is really going on here is the insatiable desire for attention, for which finding ways to be in the media is the ultimate crack habit. Its like one day he listened to Rush Limbaugh and decided that’s what he wanted to be when he grows up. Whatever your political beliefs, any intelligent person cannot deny he is going about his goal the wrong way. Its unfortunate too because if he applied his passion for attention-seeking toward something that actually contributes to society, he could be a useful member one day.
Alright!! Let’s revive this thread!!
Quite the stroll down memory lane this is.
i bet chad wishes he could edit his posts.
well we can revive this thread and we will see that misspelled words did not stop Chad from being elected Chair of the Republican Party.
We see that Shad Marsh has always had a hatred of Don Yelton. We see that Tim Peck’s Hero Joe Dunn is no longer on the scene.
We see that Gordon Smith and Cecil Bothwell have reached a goal of serving on the city council but 14.7 percent of the register voters is not a landslide.
Unemployment is up and the County and City are spending money like a drunken sailor. The emergency funds are cutting down trees along the intestate highway while the roads are rough from potholes and the bridges are crumbling and rusted.
Pelosi brags that the health care bill is right up there with Social Security and Medicare and both are broke. Yet, Cecil still wants an energy tax while California is considering doing away with their energy tax.
A totally controlled Democrat state will not be able to give tax refunds.
Please go back and read all of the hatred spilled out of the mouths of the so called liberals, libertians, progressive or what ever you want to call them. Frankly I think that most of the critism of the Carolina Stompers is is just plain bullpelosi.
As a firm believer in the system of checks and balances, and the power of informed debate, it is my hope that the BC-GOP offers the community some viable alternative candidates in the near future. In my opinion it is never good when one party reigns supreme.
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