North Carolina’s voter-verification process questioned

An “extraordinarily high” use of Social Security identification for new-voter verifications is being examined in North Carolina and five more states. The question is whether Social Security numbers are being improperly run for verification instead of the more “acceptable” state-issued identification procedure, as reported in The News & Observer of Raleigh today.

The request came from Social Security Commissioner Michael Astrue in a letter mailed last Friday to the secretaries of state in Alabama, Georgia and the so-called “battleground states” of Indiana, Nevada, Ohio and North Carolina.

Gary Bartlett, director of the N.C. Board of Elections, told the N&O that the question concerns the 400,000 Social Security validations for the year, while noting that new registrations in the state at this point total some 700,000. Bartlett cited North Carolina’s large military and college communities as one explanation for the numbers, explaining that registrants there may have out-of-state driver’s licenses instead of N.C. identification.

“Rest assured, we think this is just absolutely off-base,” Bartlett was quoted as saying of the investigation. Georgia, with 2 million requests since last October, had more SSN verifications than any other state. Alabama was second with 1 milion. States with comparable or larger populations have had significantly lower numbers of Social Security requests, according to Astrue’s letter.

The deadline in North Carolina for new-voter registration before the Nov. 4 general election is Oct. 10. Registration will still be available, however, at One Stop Early Voting (Oct. 16 through Nov. 1). For more details, see XpressCampaign Calendar for Oct. 8.

Nelda Holder, associate editor

 

SHARE

Before you comment

The comments section is here to provide a platform for civil dialogue on the issues we face together as a local community. Xpress is committed to offering this platform for all voices, but when the tone of the discussion gets nasty or strays off topic, we believe many people choose not to participate. Xpress editors are determined to moderate comments to ensure a constructive interchange is maintained. All comments judged not to be in keeping with the spirit of civil discourse will be removed and repeat violators will be banned. See here for our terms of service. Thank you for being part of this effort to promote respectful discussion.

57 thoughts on “North Carolina’s voter-verification process questioned

  1. tatuaje

    The question is whether Social Security numbers are being improperly run for verification instead of the more “acceptable” state-issued identification procedure

    Uhh, isn’t our SSN supposed to be the most secure and accurate method of ID? Lots of people have similar names or DOBs, but all SSNs are unique.

    The request came from Social Security Commissioner Michael Astrue in a letter mailed last Friday to the secretaries of state in Alabama, Georgia and the so-called “battleground states” of Indiana, Nevada, Ohio and North Carolina.

    So, it came from a Bush appointee to battleground states that have recently been swinging to a decidedly blue shade….hmmmm….

    “Rest assured, we think this is just absolutely off-base,” Bartlett was quoted as saying of the investigation.

    I agree…this smells bad, as Letterman would say…

  2. Ken Hanke

    So, it came from a Bush appointee to battleground states that have recently been swinging to a decidedly blue shade….hmmmm….

    I’m shocked — shocked!

  3. Al Cottingham

    DonM has it right. ACORN is no doubt scamming the system. And Bartlett, a democrat, doesn’t want to cooperate with the SS people because fraudulant registrations help the democrats. God help us if this is allowed to continue. It will be the end of the USA if our voting system is hijacked through Chicago-style cheating.

  4. bobaloo

    Uh, when the Dallas Cowboys show up as newly registered voters in Nevada I’m pretty sure there’s some fraud going on.

  5. Yes Bob, but…

    Of the 80,000 voters registered by ACORN in that Nevada County, only 46 were deemed problematic, and ACORN is cooperating with the authorities to rectify the problems. This means that 79,954 new voters were registered on the up-and-up, and that’s what you’re not hearing in all this hysterical bogeyman-making of the conservatives.

    Further, if anyone actually tries to show up and vote as one of those Dallas Cowboys, we’ll all be shocked and surprised.

    ACORN has registered nearly 1.3 million new voters, and Republicans want to holler about the sliver of those registrations that are fraudulent. This is because when more people vote, more Democrats win. Suppressing the vote has been a tactic of the Republican Party for decades now, while broadening the vote has been the tactic of Democrats.

    Don’t believe the nonsensical hype about ACORN.

  6. tatuaje

    I agree. It smells bad. Like an ACORN.

    Oh, come on…

    This year alone, ACORN has registered 1.2 million new voters. Out of all that paperwork, there are bound to be mistakes. Yes, mistakes.

    Yes, ACORN workers have been indicted for election fraud. However, most of those were turned in to the authorities by ACORN which first fired them and then reported their misfeasance.

    ACORN gets a lot of attention each election. Always accused of cheating. Well, yes. Some ACORN employees have been lazy, made up registrations to get paid although not doing any work. On the other hand, because of ACORN, since 2005 many thousands of people have voted who otherwise wouldn’t get the opportunity.

    The Las Vegas raid, executed by agents of the Nevada Secretary of State and state Attorney General, effectively shut down the ACORN office, at least temporarily. The state officials seized the group’s files and computers less than a month before Election Day, seriously hampering their ability to register more voters.

    In a report released October 2008 the US Department of Justice Inspector General found that former U.S. Attorney David Iglesias was wrongfully fired by Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez after Iglesias declined to indict over alleged voter fraud at an ACORN affiliate in New Mexico, citing insufficient evidence.

    “On a conference call with reporters Monday discussing what they viewed as a successful national voter registration drive, ACORN representatives — unaware that the raid was about to occur the following day — described their operations in a way that was consistent with their statements today, saying the organization does not use quotas or base its workers’ pay on the number of registrations gathered or deliver registration applications at the last minute. The representatives also explained ACORN’s quality assurance program — which includes identifying and flagging any suspicious registrations for elections officials to investigate — in detail.

    Nevada Secretary of State spokesman Walsh admitted Tuesday that ACORN may indeed have an internal quality control operation that flags potentially fraudulent registrations for authorities. The affidavit supporting the search warrant used in Tuesday’s raid also acknowledges ACORN’s internal checks.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/m.s.-bellows/acorn-office-raid-linked-_b_132705.html

    ACORN’s Interim Chief Organizer Bertha Lewis accused Nevada authorities of footdragging:

    “Over the past year, ACORN has worked hard to help over 80,000 people in Clark County register to vote. As part of our nonpartisan voter registration program, we have review all the applications submitted by our canvassers. When we have identified suspicious applications, we have separated them out and flagged them for election officials. We have zero tolerance for fraudulent registrations. We immediately dismiss employees we suspect of submitting fraudulent registrations.

    For the past 10 months, any time ACORN has identified a potentially fraudulent application, we turn that application into election officials separately and offer to provide election officials with the information they would need to pursue an investigation or prosecution of the individual.

    Election officials routinely ignored this information and failed to act. In early July, ACORN asked to meet with election officials to express our concerns that they were not acting on information ACORN had presented to them. ACORN met with Clark County elections officials and a representative of the Secretary of State on July 17th. ACORN pleaded with them to take our concerns about fraudulent applications seriously. One week later, elections officials asked us to provide them with a second copy of what we had previously provided to them. ACORN responded by giving election officials copies of 46 ‘problem application packages,’ which involved 33 former canvassers.

    On September 23, ACORN had received a subpoena dated September 19th requesting information on 15 employees, all of whom had been included in the packages we had previously submitted to election officials. ACORN provided our personnel records on these 15 employees on September 29.

    Today’s raid by the Secretary of State’s Office is a stunt that serves no useful purpose other than discredit our work registering Nevadans and distracting us from the important work ahead of getting every eligible voter to the polls.”

    Voters Outreach of America, a GOP leaning organization, tore up hundreds of democrat voter registrations 4 years ago.

    According to Las Vegas, Nevada reporter George Knapp, former VOA employee Eric Russell charged in October 2004 that he had personally witnessed company supervisors destroying hundreds of voter registration forms filled out by Democratic voters. Russell “managed to retrieve a pile of shredded paperwork including signed voter registration forms, all from Democrats,” Knapp reported. “We took them to the Clark County Election Department and confirmed that they had not, in fact, been filed with the county as required by law.” As a result, “hundreds, perhaps thousands of voters who may think they are registered will be rudely surprised on election day.”

    The company was also accused of similar voter registration fraud in the state of Oregon.

    Basically, what I’m trying to say is, it’s politics. People from BOTH sides are going to be trying some sleazy tricks. But demonizing ACORN is simply misplaced frustration. They’re an organization that has stood up for the disenfranchised for years…just take a look at some of their accomplishments. Have some of their employees made some mistakes? I’m sure. Are they an evil pinko-commie organization hellbent on subverting the election? Come on….

    But what I tried to point out earlier is the fact that swing states, that are historically red but turning blue, are being singled out by partisan appointees. And since we know for a fact that the DOJ & Alberto Gonzales were responsible for trying to use political muscle against ACORN in the past, I think it behooves us, ALL of us, no matter our political affiliation, to question our government’s role in voter registration suppression…

    This isn’t a freakin’ football game, ya’ll…

  7. Who Is ACORN?
    Angela Winters | 10/09/2008
    http://www.bookerrising.net/2008/10/angela-winters-commentary-who-is-acorn.html

    “I used to date someone who worked for ACORN, back when I was a socialist feminist (I’m still a feminist, but a libertarianesque one). ACORN is a socialist, community organizing group that focuses on housing issues in poor neighborhoods, wealth redistribution to poor neighborhoods, and a “living wage” while seeking exemptions from paying their own workers said wage. It is a de facto arm of the Democratic Party in order to promote socialism in America. Big group in Chicagoland, and in some other places.

  8. tatuaje

    “I used to date someone who worked for ACORN…”

    Wow…talk about a third party account…great source for objective debate…

    I used to date an analyst who worked for Merrill Lynch in NYC. That doesn’t give me any particular or special insight into their organization…I personally think they’re nothing but out of control, unregulated, greedy capitalists who could care less about their employees or customers or the welfare of the public in general and would do anything to make a buck…but having dated one of their employees at one point doesn’t make it so….

    So, I see your 3rd person account and raise you a 1st person account:

    http://www.upi.com/Features/Voice_Young_Voters/2008/09/30/Opinion_ACORN_Criticism_Doesnt_Add_Up/1222784942509/

    Maybe instead of trying to smear some organization who appears to be trying to help the disenfranchised, I suggest people register to vote, help others register to vote, and then be vigilant at their polling locations during the vote…

  9. dave

    DonM-Alright, buddy. You got Marcia/Al/NV on your side. That sure lends legitimacy.

    I’m just curious, is your outrage partisan? Where were you in 2000 and 2004 when the Republicans rigged the vote?

    “It’s all over but the counting. And we’ll take care of the counting.” -Congressman Peter King in 2004.

    Partisan outrage is hard to take seriously. sorry guys.

  10. DonM

    tatuaje,
    You DO know that the ACORN office raids in Nevada were carried out by Democrats, not Republicans.

    It’s a pattern of behavior by ACORN over the years that is truly odious. When caught, ACORN feigns indignation about a “few bad apples” in their process and then accuses their critics of racism and bias against “poor people” who typically vote Democrat. It’s and old form of indirect vote buying–vote for the guy who will give ya sumthin’

    Voter fraud is something that no one should tolerate or defend. How do you justify your defense of ACORN? Really, how do you square that in your mind?

  11. tatuaje

    How do you justify your defense of ACORN? Really, how do you square that in your mind?

    Some words from a former employee…

    “Author disclosure: I briefly worked as a community organizer with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) in the spring and early summer of 2008. The opinions expressed here are solely my own. However, my professional relationship with ACORN helped form my reply to the recent criticism levied upon the organization, and should be taken into consideration when gauging authorial bias in this article.

    ACORN has been the thorn in the side of conservatives for years.

    This is because the organization runs incredibly successful voter registration drives in the low to moderate-income communities of their constituents where citizens tend to express Democratic leanings. ACORN claims to have registered more than one million voters this election season alone, focusing its efforts in battleground states such as Ohio and Florida.

    On Thursday, the Consumers Rights League went further, testifying at a joint House Administration and House Judiciary Committee oversight hearing on “Federal, state and local efforts to prepare for the general 2008 election,” contending that ACORN “systemic(ally)” aims to falsely register voters for their own interests as an organization.

    While it cannot be denied that ACORN employees have turned in false voter registration forms and suffered legal ramifications, these incidents represent aberrations in ACORN’s voter registration drives and are by no means conspiratorial policy dictated from the top.

    Most of the cases of fraud come from temporary workers hired by ACORN to register voters.

    If you’ve ever trolled the non-profit section of Craigslist in a town where the community organization is grounded, I’m sure you’ve seen many of their ads offering work. Most often, simply showing up for a group interview and managing to fill out paperwork is an indicator that you will receive a job canvassing communities and registering new voters in high-traffic areas such as bus stations and shopping outlets. Many times, ACORN hires members of the low to moderate-income neighborhoods they organize in, offering access to decent paying jobs that create a sense of community.

    But keeping the job proves to be harder than acquiring it.

    ACORN designs daily quotas so as to keep its employees motivated and to ensure they go into their turf signing up new voters. When employees cannot move a quota on a regular basis, they lose their jobs.

    And this is where ACORN runs into trouble. Fearing the loss of their jobs, some temporary employees resort to bloating their daily numbers by falsely filling out forms.

    ACORN, fortunately, has an extensive staff that checks every voter registration form before it is turned into the local Board of Elections office. Cards are reviewed to make sure they were filled out properly, and at the office I worked in, ACORN staff members personally called potential new voters to confirm their information presented on the forms was correct. When information doesn’t add up, the forms are not turned into the Board of Elections and disciplinary action is taken up between management and the offending temporary workers.

    For conservative groups to constantly trash a massive national voter registration drive that inspires participation in our democratic system is a disservice to the majority of ACORN’s temporary workers who brave the heat, cold, rain or snow on a daily basis.

    And a word on the ironically titled Consumers Rights League; some people in the community organizing world believe this organization, which was founded by Terry Kibbe, a former fundraiser for the conservative Competitive Enterprise Institute and the Cato Institute, to be a front-group for the credit card industry.”

    Some words about ACORN from John Atlas, a longtime public-interest lawyer, activist, writer, and radio talk-show host. He is founder and president of the New Jersey-based National Housing Institute, a think tank that publishes Shelterforce magazine:

    “For 38 years, ACORN, the nation’s most successful community organizing group, has been making headlines by mobilizing low-income Americans to fight for social justice, challenging powerful banks, corporations, and government officials around such issues as wages for the working poor, predatory lending and foreclosures, welfare reform, public education, affordable housing, and voting rights.

    ACORN has won victories at the local, state and national levels that have improved living and working conditions for those who are usually left out of the corridors of power. Over the years, ACORN’s success on a wide range of issues has depended on staking out progressive stances, mobilizing poor people, especially its dues-paying members, on issue campaigns, and enlisting allies among liberal funders, unions, faith groups, and politicians.

    ACORN has won victories at the local, state and national levels that have improved living and working conditions for those who are usually left out of the corridors of power. Over the years, ACORN’s success on a wide range of issues has depended on staking out progressive stances, mobilizing poor people, especially its dues-paying members, on issue campaigns, and enlisting allies among liberal funders, unions, faith groups, and politicians.

    There are thousands of nonprofit groups around the country that help the poor. Some provide charity and social services. Others advocate on their behalf. And some organize the poor to fight for themselves. But in the community organizing world, ACORN stands almost alone as a national force, with its local chapters, dues-paying members and an ability to wage and win major reforms at the neighborhood, city, state and national level. ACORN organizers have taught tens of thousands of low-income Americans how David can sometimes defeat Goliath.

    Since its founding, ACORN has mobilized poor and working class people to pressure governments, corporations, hospitals, and other institutions to clean up vacant lots and turn them into parks, put up stop signs to prevent children from getting killed, improve public schools, help families buy an affordable home and prevent foreclosures, and provide access to health care. It has registered millions of voters. In New Orleans, ACORN, more than any other grassroots organization, has saved the Lower Ninth Ward from extinction.

    ACORN has played a leading role in building the “living wage” movement, working with unions, faith-based groups, and other community and civil rights organizations to help lift the working poor out of poverty. There are now more than 150 cities and counties with these ordinances, despite the opposition of the local and national business groups. These laws set a minimum wage — one to five dollars an hour higher than the federal threshold — for businesses that receive city contracts, tax abatements or subsidies. In Chicago, for example, ACORN had to overcome Mayor Richard Daley’s opposition to pass a living-wage law that now applies to firms that receive $50,000 or more in city subsidies.

    ACORN’s Financial Justice Center has negotiated settlements with several large private corporations — including Citi-group, Household Finance and H&R;Block — that had a history of discrimination or predatory lending. The settlements resulted in borrowers saving several billion dollars a year and benefiting from $636 million in one-time payouts. ACORN sponsors several magnet schools in New York. It has provided leadership and organizing power for New York’s Working Families Party, which has played a key role in the city’s progressive politics.”

    That’s how…

    Now, I would ask you, DonM, knowing what we know about the current president, how do you justify your defense of him? Really, how do you square that in your mind? Seems to me that he’s hurt many more people and helped a whole hell of lot less than ACORN has….

  12. evolved

    It takes one to know one…

    I suggest everyone watch “Uncounted” to learn about the real voter fraud in the US.

  13. DonM

    “…Now, I would ask you, DonM, knowing what we know about the current president, how do you justify your defense of him? Really, how do you square that in your mind? Seems to me that he’s hurt many more people and helped a whole hell of lot less than ACORN has….”

    One, where have you read me defending the President?
    Two, was any of that post your words?
    Three, your logic defies rational thought and
    Four, your post validated precisely what I wrote earlier.

  14. Reality Check

    it is clear that rogues that vote with the Democratic party are loading the voter rolls with illegals who they hope will vote for Obama. NC is totally in the tank for illegals and that they come from all over the country to NC to get drivers licenses with their falsely obtained SSNs. Its a perfect marriage and the baby is willful voter registration fraud. ACORN is the perfect example of that movement. Funny how the far left always screams about rumors of voter fraud and they are the ones who always get caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

  15. dave

    I am far less concerned about the over-blown, politicized, pseudo-controversy with ACORN than I am with the questionable tactics employed by the Republicans (and completely tolerated by the Democrats) in the last two Presidential elections.
    I am curious to see how many of these ACORN-a-Phobes will be up in arms if Diebold is able to rig this one in the next few weeks.

  16. Nelda Holder

    The Xpress has received a statement from Bob Hall, executive director of the nonprofit Democracy North Carolina, regarding the New York Times story (cited in an above comment), which is at:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/09/us/politics/09voting.html

    Hall feels the NYT story, reprinted elsewhere in North Carolina, should be prominently corrected. He says: “The New York Times included North Carolina in an article about six states with possible “improper purges” of voters from registration rolls, but it failed to provide any evidence that North Carolina voters have in fact been purged or “blocked from registering in ways that appear to violate federal law.” This is an example of how the media’s desire for “gotcha” stories can overtake its responsibility for accurate reporting. It is particularly reprehensible because it can make North Carolinians worry that they won’t be able to cast a ballot in the upcoming election; in other words, it has the same effect as a devious rumor aimed at disenfranchising voters.”

    Nelda Holder, associate editor

  17. Reality Check

    There should NEVER EVER be electronic voting machines. Bad guys on both sides – yes both sides – will taint electronic voting.

    It should be old school. Everyone needs to take accountability for their ability to press that darn chad out or fill in the circle just like everyone did in school. If you can’t do that, your vote should not count.

    You should also get a hand stamp of permanent ink when you vote just like other countries. Ink that takes several days to wear off. That will stop those who try to vote more than once.

    So what if it takes longer to count the votes? Screw the media and their thirst for immediate headlines and who has the guts to call the election first.

  18. tatuaje

    One, where have you read me defending the President?

    I apologize if you’re not a W. supporter…Your constant posts railing against liberals simply led me to that conclusion…

    Two, was any of that post your words?

    What I was trying to convey was, since I have personally never worked for or with ACORN (have you?), that they have a long history of standing up for “the little guy.” They help the poor, the illiterate, they help schools, disaster areas…apparently the list goes on and on…and instead of trying to show you the viewpoint of people who not only agree that ACORN has done a lot for people over the years, but show you that viewpoint from people who have been there on the ground with them. I have heard of their accomplishments and of their failures. Their accomplishments seem to far outweigh their failures.

    Three, your logic defies rational thought and

    Uhh, how? I have heard of their accomplishments and of their failures. Their accomplishments seem to far outweigh their failures. That is my logic. That is the only idea I’ve put forth about ACORN. You have no logic. You have used no logic, no sources…At least Tim Peck tried to use an ex ACORN girlfriend to smear them…You? You’ve used nothing….Your idea of rational thought is hilarious…

    Four, your post validated precisely what I wrote earlier.

    Which post? And how, exactly, did I validate it? Again, your arguments contain NO logic, no sources, no rational thought whatsoever….nothing….

  19. tatuaje

    The Xpress has received a statement from Bob Hall, executive director of the nonprofit Democracy North Carolina, regarding the New York Times story (cited in an above comment),

    That was my comment and, I hope was noted, I specifically said “Although still not enough info on NC… ”

    I had never heard of ‘Democracy North Carolina’, so I went to their website. The letter that Nelda posted from them is there in full and, IMHO, needs to be seen in its entirety. You can find that here:

    http://www.democracy-nc.org/whatsnew/2008/False.shtml

    This part is what I was especially looking for from the NYT:

    As the director of a nonpartisan organization involved in registering new voters and also monitoring elections officials in North Carolina, I can tell you that the most pervasive registration problems happen because of human error on the part of the voter or the volunteer registering that person. Forms are submitted that are incomplete or partly illegible; they are submitted without the person’s signature or without any identification number. In our experience, Social Security numbers are often provided, rather than the driver’s license number, so it is not surprising that out of 700,000 new registrations in the past year in North Carolina, the Social Security administration’s computers would receive a large volume to match. So what? That is how the system is supposed to work. Even if a match is not found, the new registrant in North Carolina is not “purged” but remains in the database, gets contacted by the local elections officials, and has multiple chances to provide additional information and cast a ballot that counts.

    Like all of us, elections officials make mistakes, but at least in North Carolina there are a number of procedures in place that minimize the chance that a person eligible to participate in an election will be denied the right to vote and have that vote counted. We have worked with state and local election officials to improve those procedures and agree with most national voting rights advocates that North Carolina is a leader in the integrity of its election administration system.

    So, thanks Bob Hall, and Nelda Holder, for taking the time to keep us up to date and informed…

  20. Al Cottingham

    JUST IN:

    In the mid 1990s Barack Hussein Obama belonged to TWO parties. The democrat Chicago machine, and the New Socialist Party. Add that to Obama’s close association with America-hating Bill Ayers, Rev Wright, and the socialist organization ACORN, and you have lots of worries. Obama is a new Hitler, unawares. God help us if he cheats his way into office.

  21. DonM

    tatuaje,
    You believe what you want to believe. Most other people try and gather information from many sources, not just those that resonate with their view. I’ve yet to read anything from you that isn’t of a progressive nature. Nothing wrong with that just admit that you filter “facts” to fit your view.

    To paraphrase Keynes, when I find that the facts as i understood them have changed, I change my mind. what do you do, tatuaje?

    The post I referred to was my second post here in this thread. It is factual but doesn’t fit your view of ACORN.

    I’ll even repeat it here so you won’t be confused as to which post I refer to:

    “tatuaje,
    You DO know that the ACORN office raids in Nevada were carried out by Democrats, not Republicans.

    It’s a pattern of behavior by ACORN over the years that is truly odious. When caught, ACORN feigns indignation about a “few bad apples” in their process and then accuses their critics of racism and bias against “poor people” who typically vote Democrat. It’s and old form of indirect vote buying–vote for the guy who will give ya sumthin’

    Voter fraud is something that no one should tolerate or defend. How do you justify your defense of ACORN? Really, how do you square that in your mind?”

    I feel confident that you will not consider those facts even though they’re verifiable.

    As to your magnificent display of logic and relevance, I refer to your words:

    “Now, I would ask you, DonM, knowing what we know about the current president, how do you justify your defense of him? Really, how do you square that in your mind? Seems to me that he’s hurt many more people and helped a whole hell of lot less than ACORN has….”

    Perhaps you see relevance there. Your prejudice is palpable.

  22. tatuaje

    You believe what you want to believe

    Don’t worry… I do tend to think for myself…

    Most other people try and gather information from many sources, not just those that resonate with their view.

    THAT’S why FOX News is so damn popular….

    I regularly refer to no less than 20 news sources a day…just so you know…from all across the political spectrum, I can assure you…

    I’ve yet to read anything from you that isn’t of a progressive nature.

    Thank you…

    Nothing wrong with that just admit that you filter “facts” to fit your view.

    EVERYONE filters facts…it’s called being human

    I haven’t filtered any facts from you because you haven’t given any…except for:

    the ACORN office raids in Nevada were carried out by Democrats, not Republicans.

    This is true…the only demonstrable fact that you’ve put forth in this thread so far. Unfortunately for you it doesn’t really have much bearing on the discussion. Unless you presume to think I’m a Democrat…which I am not.

    It’s a pattern of behavior by ACORN over the years that is truly odious. When caught, ACORN feigns indignation about a “few bad apples” in their process and then accuses their critics of racism and bias against “poor people” who typically vote Democrat. It’s and old form of indirect vote buying–vote for the guy who will give ya sumthin’

    Once again, I will reiterate:

    You have put forth suppositions with nothing to back them…no sources, no experiences…

    nothing

    Voter fraud is something that no one should tolerate or defend.

    I don’t and haven’t…on this thread or at any other time…

    I feel confident that you will not consider those facts even though they’re verifiable.

    Verify ’em…

    Your prejudice is palpable.

    I have prejudged you because I have witnessed your lack of facts, sources, and general debate skills enough in the past to create a judgment based on them…or rather, lack thereof…

    Next…

  23. DonM

    tatuaje,
    I guess you haven’t been watching your multiple news sources lately. The Ohio Sec of State has just been issued a temporary restraining order that will now allow for proper cross-checking and purging from the system all dubious voter registrations across the state. About time.

    As well, CNN reports that “More than 2,000 voter registration forms filed in northern Indiana’s Lake County by a liberal activist group this week have turned out to be bogus…” That group? Say it with me, now–ACORN.

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/09/acorn.fraud.claims/index.html

    This is just one of the MANY investigations into ACORN’s illegal voter registration drives.

    ACORN’s pattern of behavior for over a decade is being found out finally and they’re being exposed as the partisan charlatans they are.

    Get your head out of the sand. Every legally able person should be allowed to vote–once. The dead shouldn’t vote nor should cats and dogs.

    Next, indeed…

  24. Reality Check

    Every time the voter rolls get purged, the left screams that its legit democratic voters being denied their rights by the ‘evil’ republicans. They say the ‘vast right wing conspiracy’ is at it again. Its now looking like the problem probably starts from the knuckleheads that are paying people for each new registration they submit and the purging is necessary to clean up that mess.

  25. Dave

    “Voter fraud is something that no one should tolerate or defend.”

    ACORN has not committed, nor could they commit, voter fraud. That’s more Diebold’s territory.

    Voter Registration Fraud is not Voter Fraud. There is an enormous difference. You discredit yourself by trying to insinuate that.

    But, Gorden’s right. They are building a narrative to rile up the angry, drunken masses.

  26. Reality Check

    Funny to hear the left poke fun a those who might claim a ‘conspiracy’ was to blame. I can’t help but think of the old adage of one finger pointing forward and four pointing back.

  27. Reality Check

    ACORN is laying the foundation for the ‘conspiracy’ of the voter rolls being purged of valid voters. I bet that almost all of their ‘enrollee’s’ are registering as Democrats.

    Their employee compensation plan encourages the bogus registrations. Here’s the real conspiracy … the bogus registrations makes them look much more productive which is rewarded with more of OUR tax dollars. Another government skimmer.

  28. Hilarious.

    In other business models, I doubt you’d warn fraud for performance incentives. ACORN registered 1.3 million new voters. There are several thousand of those registrations in dispute. For fun, let’s say 10,000 registrations turn out to be hokum. That’s .8% of the total.

    That would make 99.2% completely on the up-and-up. Throw the baby out with the bathwater much?

    More voters = stronger democracy. Republican efforts to suppress the vote = effort to keep voters from voting.

  29. Al Cottingham

    Gordon said “ACORN has registered nearly 1.3 million new voters, and Republicans want to holler about the sliver of those registrations that are fraudulent. This is because when more people vote, more Democrats win. Suppressing the vote has been a tactic of the Republican Party for decades now, while broadening the vote has been the tactic of Democrats.

    Don’t believe the nonsensical hype about ACORN.”

    It is not non-sensical hype, Gordon. Voter fraud is a serious matter. More information is coming out daily about the sinister cheating ACORN is committing in the battleground states. And Barack Hussein Obama used to work for them back when he was a socialist “community organizer”.

    By the way, I do hope Obama wins. Because he will screw things up so badly, another 12 year conservative White House dynasty will be ushered in in 2012. Fact is, democrats like to be in power, but once there, they don’t know what to do. Watch for Obama to raise taxes on the working people, on capital gains, and anywhere else he thin ks he can get by with. And that will really tank the economy.

  30. Reality Check

    Gordon, no one said throw out the baby. You seem to be upset about tossing the bathwater. What’s up with that? 8% fraud is fraud. ACORN is scamming grant money and causing more work for everybody to line their own pockets. You should be angry with that part of their operation, but you applaud it.

  31. Al Cottingham

    Gordon is a decent person. But he is blindly partisan. Gordon, step back and be more objective. ACORN commits fraud regularly in the name of creeping socialism.

  32. RC, I said .8%, but let’s not split decimals. This isn’t about partisanship, it’s about a hysterical distraction from a very important election. You can do the research and learn that (1) ACORN made BOE officials aware of suspect registrations; (2) ACORN workers are paid by the hour, not by the registration; (3) voter registrations do not correlate to vote fraud. If Mickey Mouse or Biggus Dickus wanders in to vote, they’ll certainly have a challenge on their hands.

    Further – if you’re looking for vote fraud, there are a lot more sinister targets than ACORN.

    Registering voters is good work. ACORN has registered 1.3 million voters completely on the up-and-up. They have pursued transparency and improved methodology. This is a tempest stirred up by desperate people seeking to create a bogeyman.

  33. kalaine w

    Bartlett is kind of useless. It is amusing to see republicans quaking about fraud now when 2000 and 2004 were served up to them via fraud. And someone needs to tell Al Cottingham that the economy is already tanked.

  34. nuvue

    Socialism certainly hasn’t crept lately. The French are certainly laughing now with our new french socilist economy foisted upon us by Paulson et.al.
    Al-Voter fraud is no laughing matter, remember the people voted in 2000 for Gore and he won the popular vote. Then Bush becomes pres…..fraud any way you slice it. Now look at the socialist economy he has wrought. By the way, congrats, we are all part owners of AIG, various Banks, Lehman sisters etc…
    I think Castro should send in some observers for this election, like he joked in 2000 and 04

  35. Reality Check

    More evidence of the problem being created by the foot soldiers in the Democrat registration efforts. All the junk registrations – .8% estimate is a complete joke of an understatement – are punishing their own party. Interesting how the Republican’s seem to be able to register themselves without all the mistakes.

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93R8IE00&show_article=1

    Nevue – read up on a thing called the electoral college. Pop vote is irrelevant – thank goodness. I don’t want NYCity, California, PA, TX and Florida electing every president.

    Both parties are pushing towards socialism. DC power mongers with no term limits. I expected it from the Dem’s, but the Republican’s doing it was a shocker. I’ve registered as a independent. Socialism is/was a failure every time its been tried.

    Watch how the companies that the Gov’t owns some of – Fannie, Freddie, maybe some banks – AIG was a loan – and you’ll see them turn into giant slugs with civil servant style productivity.

  36. dave

    “Socialism is/was a failure every time its been tried.”

    Can you name me a time in recorded history that actual “Socialism” has ever even been “tried”? Cuba, the USSR, and France dont count. If you think they do, then you must have received an education ending at 8th grade.

    In addition, how has unregulated state-supported Capitalism worked out?

  37. Reality Check

    You are supporting my point on socialism. Human nature corrupts it and turns it into something else .. Marxism or Communism. The wealthy leaders that support socialism … Obama, Pelosi, Soros, Marx, Stalin and others will never give up their wealth. The entire system starts with a super flaw. Socialism advocated by the super rich are is an oxymoron of corrupt thought. Utopia doesn’t exist.

    State supported capitalism – if you are talking about today’s US economy – created the greatest standard of living and charitable giving machine on the planet. Hard work and self sufficiency were at its root. Take those away .. as socialism does … and you get a the messes that occurred in Cuba, Russia and is now happening in France. If you take human nature out of the equation, you are being naive. Utopian society is a dream … read the book … it was shot down there too.

  38. Reality Check

    Another point .. we do not have unregulated capitalism. At least not in the last 100 years. This makes me suspect of your education. I’ve worked in medicine and finances. They are extremely regulated.

    Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are GSE’s and are at the heart of our financial crisis. If they had not been created from the ‘Gov’t Lab’ there wouldn’t have been an enormous financial market based on overly inflated government guaranteed financial instruments. A free market would have adjusted to the inherent problems immediately.

  39. Dave

    So, RC, do you now think both McCain and Bush to be “Socialists”?

    Or is your anger partisan?

  40. Dave

    In alleging voter fraud, McCain goes too far. To commit fraud, a person would have to show up on Election Day with identification bearing the fake name. This wont happen. So no “Fraud” can occur.

  41. Reality Check

    I think we should have thought out the bail out a little more. I was surprised that W was so for the bail out so fast. He’s looking out for his legacy obviously. McCain isn’t very economically conservative, so his position was no real surprise.

    It was a knee jerk reaction and W and congress pulled the trigger very fast given the complexity of the problem. The problem with my logic there is that the longer congress works on it, but more invasive and pork ridden it would be. Quite a dilemma. Another problem with that logic is assuming that they can actually come up with a good solution. You think Health Shuler has the know how to actually have input on this? He isn’t very different from most in congress. Both parties were out to save their butts more than the economy.

    Once the gov’t gets its fingers in these businesses, they won’t come out. It will prob mean more ineffective regulation and that’s what got us where we are today. The speeches about ‘necessary regulation’ sound great from the podium, but normally fail dismally in their application.

    “So no “Fraud” can occur” You have got to be kidding me. That is the most naive position I could ever imagine. According to that logic, there has never been voter fraud. Is that your position?

    I don’t really think ACORN is involved in a voter fraud conspiracy. They seem too inept. Their conspiracy is cooking their books for grant money. They are also giving ‘conspiracy theorists’ ammo if McCain wins. The voter rolls have to be purged of the junk. The conspiracy theorists will say that all the junk ACORN submitted was all good. Get ready. They should be billed for all the stupid work they are creating for those that manage the voter rolls.

  42. dave

    RC said: ““So no “Fraud” can occur” You have got to be kidding me. That is the most naive position I could ever imagine. According to that logic, there has never been voter fraud. Is that your position?”

    No, it means that voter fraud and voter registration fraud are to very different things. And anyone who claims ACORN has committed “Voter Fraud” is showing their lack of knowledge on the subject.

    It is entirely, completely, and totally impossible for someone to vote under an illegally registered name. Therefore, this will not allow anyone to commit Voter Fraud. The Dallas Cowboys cant vote in Nevada, nobody has a legal ID with the name Micky Mouse, etc.

    If you believe the hype that Rush and McCain are trying to spread about ACORN, then I’d love to sell you a bridge to nowhere, sir.
    Cantact me via email and we can discuss how much you will pay for this bridge, sight unseen.

  43. Reality Check

    “It is entirely, completely, and totally impossible for someone to vote under an illegally registered name. Therefore, this will not allow anyone to commit Voter Fraud. The Dallas Cowboys cant vote in Nevada, nobody has a legal ID with the name Micky Mouse, etc.”

    I never ever said ACORN was involved in voter fraud or that voter fraud and registration fraud were the same thing. It would help if you actually read my posts.

    Still, your point about voter fraud being impossible is still off the chart naive. Different states have different ID rules … which is a problem. The national rule should be state picture ID, but for some reason, some think that is discriminatory. Anyhow, someone can easily use a fake id to register in multiple precincts and vote in all of them.

    The voter rolls are not perfect. Partially because of entities like ACORN committing ‘registration fraud’ and imperfect local election officials. You also cannot rule out corruption of election officials. Will all this bs affect the national election? I seriously doubt it and hope not.

    Keep your bridge .. you probably paid good money for it.

  44. And now there’s this from the C-T editorial page:

    F: To the New York Times, for messing up a story earlier this month about legitimate voters being purged in a number of states.

    There are legitimate concerns in some states, but in one – this one, North Carolina – purging doesn’t appear to be an issue.

    The huge surge in the number of new registrations in North Carolina will require a surge in checking registrations by elections officials, but there is no indication – none – that a concerted “purge’’ is in play.

    Bob Hall of Democracy North Carolina, an admirable group dedicated to reform and voter-friendly, fair elections, said it best:

    “It is particularly reprehensible because it can make North Carolinians worry that they won’t be able to cast a ballot in the upcoming election; in other words, it has the same effect as a devious rumor aimed at disenfranchising voters.’’

    There are enough wild rumors flying around without stuff like this.

  45. dave

    RC:

    I guarantee that none of the Dallas Cowboys, or Disney characters, will try to vote in Nevada. If they did, THAT would be voter fraud.

    Thanks for your wish of luck with the bridge. travelah sold it to me a few years ago and i cant get rid of it! :-)

  46. dave marks

    “dave” is my evil socialist twin. Just kidding davy, hope you can have a laugh on yourself.

    Voter fraud also entails illegal registration, which just happens to be a felony on Ohio, and probably many more states. I am a poll watcher. If ACORN or any other commie group tries to commit fraud, I WILL BE WATCHING!

  47. September Girl

    I used my social security number to re-register in NC, I guess I’m part of the problem. It was just easier to jot it down from memory than to look at the tiny numbers on my license.

    Everyone needs to watch “Uncounted”

Leave a Reply

To leave a reply you may Login with your Mountain Xpress account, connect socially or enter your name and e-mail. Your e-mail address will not be published. All fields are required.