Culture clash: Facing up to Asheville’s troubled police-community relations

SOCIAL SOLUTIONS: Senior Police Officer Doug Sheehan, along with others members of the Asheville Police Department Housing Unit, attend a Johnston Elementary School ice cream social. Local officers devote time and energy to socializing and trying to build relationships in the face of broad disillusionment in black communities. Photo courtesy of APD
SOCIAL SOLUTIONS: Senior Police Officer Doug Sheehan, along with others members of the Asheville Police Department Housing Unit, attend a Johnston Elementary School ice cream social. Local officers devote time and energy to socializing and trying to build relationships in the face of broad disillusionment in black communities. Photo courtesy of APD

Trust in the Asheville Police Department is on the line for some local communities — people of color, the economically disadvantaged and social justice advocates — in the wake  of two incidents that have focused local attention on the relationship between the city’s police force and those they are sworn to serve and protect.

On July 2, the fatal shooting of Jai Lateef “Jerry” Williams by APD Sgt. Tyler Radford rocked Asheville. Then, two months after Williams’ death, a 9-second video emerged on Facebook showing Officer Shalin Oza roughly handling a 16-year-old resident of Hillcrest Apartments. According to the APD, the teenager had been interfering while Oza was trying to serve a warrant on her brother.

A year into her leadership of the city’s Police Department, Chief Tammy Hooper now faces her biggest challenges so far in leading an agency marked in recent years by accusations of malfeasance and mismanagement. The two previous chiefs, Bill Hogan and William Anderson, both finished their careers embroiled in scandal. Further fueling public skepticism about local law enforcement, Buncombe’s most notorious lawman, former Sheriff Bobby Medford, is now serving a 15-year sentence in federal prison for corruption and extortion. Additional  fallout from his tenure cost local taxpayers $6 million last year, as the county paid a settlement to five men wrongfully convicted during Medford’s watch.

Some in the community have seized on this summer’s two incidents as a catalyst for airing grievances regarding behaviors they characterize as stemming from problems at the heart of police culture in Asheville.

Their efforts could help bring about change. Following protests and public demonstrations in July and August calling for reform of policing practices, the APD assembled a joint work group in conjunction with the Racial Justice Coalition [see “Don’t Force It,” Sept. 7, Xpress]. the Community Police Policy Work Group — made up of local organizations advocating for various factions of the community, including schools, businesses and vulnerable peoples — was scheduled to submit its recommendations Sept. 19 on the department’s Use of Force policy in regard to de-escalation.

Hooper’s willingness to form the work group, along with public statements she has made, suggest that she sees herself as an agent of reform. But the task of establishing and/or re-establishing trust between vulnerable communities — especially people of color — and the city police will be a challenging one. The way Hooper sees it, the APD must rise to that challenge.

What’s race got to do with it?

Ta-Nehisi Coates of The Atlantic has emerged as a leading voice on matters of race, history and policy in America. In an April 15 interview last year on PBS Newshour, Coates argued that even as opportunities for people of color have expanded, a dark shadow of distrust hangs over the relationship between African-American communities and those charged with policing them. “But this feeling African-Americans have, this skepticism towards the police and the skepticism that the police show toward African-Americans, is actually quite old,” he told interviewer Gwen Ifill. “And it may be one of the most durable aspects of the relationship between black people and their country, really, in our history.”

The Obama administration has attempted to address this skepticism by shifting the relationship between the black community and the structures of power — a shift that seems particularly urgent in the wake of national outrage following a number of recent deaths of black men at the hands of police. The President’s Task Force on 21st Century Policing released its final report in May 2015, outlining many reform recommendations that are now being implemented by departments across the country, including Asheville’s.

Some communities, like Ferguson, Mo., have been required to enter into oversight agreements with the U.S. Department of Justice. In other communities, such as Fayetteville, police agencies have responded to the administration’s recommendations by voluntarily entering into partnerships with the DOJ: Since December 2015, the Fayetteville PD has been participating in a DOJ program that aims to help police departments take proactive steps to improve police-community relations.

But unless a department is investigated by the DOJ, it’s not clear how a department, or the community it polices, is supposed to know when help is needed. Nor are there widely agreed upon standards about what acceptable police behavior is and isn’t.

One measure to answer both questions is to compare police arrest data by race among cities. That’s a tack taken by  local community organizer and businessperson Dee Williams (no relation to Jai Lateef Williams), who points to a 2015 comparison of arrest rates (based on 2011-12 data) compiled by USA Today. Looking at cities’ arrest rates per 1,000 black residents versus arrests per 1,000 nonblack residents, USA Today’s analysis determined that more than 1,500 cities across the country had an even higher ratio of  black-to-nonblack arrests than Ferguson. Asheville was one of them, although our ratio (and Fayetteville’s) was close to that of Ferguson’s.

Asheville’s overall arrest rate was significantly higher than Ferguson’s for black and nonblack people combined. But it’s worth noting that the number of APD arrests in 2011-12, the figures used by USA Today in its analysis, has since plummeted.

While the total number of arrests for 2011-12 was 6,287 (with 2,019 arrests of black people and 4,039 arrests of white people), in the fiscal year that just ended, city police arrested a total of 4,911 people, of whom 1,325 were black and 3,356 were white. That’s 1,376 fewer arrests in a quickly growing city, which the U.S. Census Bureau estimates has added over 5,000 residents since 2010.

Not only did the total number of arrests decline, but the decline was greater for black arrests. Thus, it could be argued that, without a DOJ intervention or partnership, Asheville is on a path toward more equitable arrest statistics.

While many factors could explain disparities in arrest rates between different racial groups, the data make clear that the APD still arrests more black people per black resident than it arrests white people per white resident. And whether or not the numbers indicate bias, the disparities are stark.

Departmental demographics

According to the 2010 census, Asheville was 79.3 percent white, 13.4 percent black or African-American, and 6.5 percent Hispanic or Latino — making Asheville whiter than most American cities of a similar size. But the APD is even whiter. It has 179 white officers, 15 black officers, eight Hispanic officers and three other nonwhite officers.

That makes the department more than 87 percent white.

Chief Tammy Hooper talks recruitment and policing at the Citizens Police Advisory Committee meeting in September. City Council member Keith Young listens and takes note. Photo by Able Allen
Chief Tammy Hooper talks recruitment and policing at the Citizens Police Advisory Committee meeting in September. City Council member Keith Young listens and takes note. Photo by Able Allen

The APD has been making efforts to change the demographics of its force. One of Asheville’s black officers, Lt. Don Eberhardt, heads APD’s Recruitment and Career Development Division. Eberhardt and other officers tread the boards at job fairs. They employ targeted recruiting efforts at historically black colleges. And the department has partnered with multiple organizations to try to reach qualified minority job-seekers. But results have been minimal.

Eberhardt reported to the Community Police Advisory Committee at its September meeting that, in the department’s most recent hiring effort in February, 149 applicants filled out paperwork. Of those, 62 hopefuls actually showed up for testing. The 149 included only one application from a black male, he said, and one from a white female. The department wound up hiring 16 white men; the black applicant did not pass the written exam, and the white woman did not pass the physical test.

Hooper interjected that, despite the department’s focus on recruitment, “Not a lot of people right now want to be police officers, and particularly not a lot of minorities want to be police officers.”

Even though the APD is reaching out to young people, she said, it could take time to see how the effort pans out. She also noted that the challenge of recruiting officers who aren’t white and male is not unique to Asheville. “This is a national issue where police departments want to be reflective of the community but are very challenged in recruiting.”

The chief said she has personally reached out to racial justice organizations and African-American faith communities, among other tactics. “We just don’t have new ideas about what we can try to do, but we are very open to any suggestions of things that we could try to do.”

During the comment period at the CPAC meeting, community member Paul Howell shared his theory about why police departments have so much trouble recruiting nonwhites. “No one wants to be part of a broken system, and this system is broken,” he said.

Shaky ground

The Public Housing Unit of the Asheville Police Department was created to ensure public safety and enforce the law in the city’s 11 public housing neighborhoods. The 10-officer unit, funded jointly by the city of Asheville and the Asheville Housing Authority, was recently granted a two-year extension by City Council. But according to some key members of the Housing Authority’s Residents Council, the APD is not doing enough to gain the trust of the folks who live in public housing neighborhoods.

Crystal Reid is a resident of Lee Walker Heights who serves as sergeant-at-arms and communication adviser for the Residents Council. Reid says she sees the way forward for a positive relationship between her community and local police as difficult at best. Although she says there is significant crime in public housing, which brings with it a heightened need for police and protection, “We’re not being protected, we’re being targeted.” Reid questions whether policing strategies in public housing communities are doing more harm than good: “Are you trying to help the situation or de-escalate the situation? Or are you trying to make your payroll for the week?”

Howell told the CPAC at its September meeting about two instances in which he had witnessed officers in public housing brandishing assault-style rifles without apparent reason. That sort of activity, he said, creates the impression that police deliberately maintain an environment of “intimidation, fear and harassment.” He added that he doubts officers behave that way in more affluent and white communities.

Addressing Hooper at the meeting, Howell encouraged her to do something about her officers’ intimidation tactics. “The bridge to communication cannot be repaired,” he proclaimed, “if [officers] are not starting to have to answer for the wrongs that they do.”

Residents Council members characterize the average relationship between the young people in subsidized housing and police as “terrible” or “horrible.” And Reid says young people fear the police and can’t communicate with them.

To understand the situation, you have to step back and look at the big picture of police-community relationships, says Sir Charles Gardner, the Pisgah View representative on the Residents Council and Housing Authority resident representative on CPAC. Gardner says, “Their job is to lock us up. They get paid off of locking us up. The city [police] get paid off of people staying in jail … so why would they want to stop the[ir] paycheck?”

Residents appear to resent not being allowed to manage the safety of their own community with a neighborhood watch. According to Reid, when she broached the idea at a community meeting, the APD officer holding the meeting objected to it, saying it wouldn’t be done right. “We know who’s in our community,” she says. “I know my neighbor. That should be something we should be allowed to do.”

Lt. Michael Lamb, an 18-year veteran of the APD, has just taken the reins of the Public Housing Unit. Lamb’s résumé includes a wide range of policing duties. In addition to stints serving in the Public Housing Unit, he’s also a detective who oversaw the investigation of violent crimes and major cases for five years, and he spent five years on APD’s drug suppression unit. While Lamb, who was promoted to lieutenant in July, seems to possess a wide range of experience that could serve as the basis for a balanced approach to policing, he faces an uphill slog in winning hearts and minds in the city’s public housing neighborhoods.

Shuvonda Harper, also on the Residents Council, says there is skepticism in the community about Lamb being the right choice. Harper says his reputation is that of a watchful eye, rather than a friendly face. “His name in the community is not great. I’ve told him that personally. When you hear his name,” she says, “it’s like, ‘Oh, he’ll climb a tree and hide up there and survey the community that way,’ and we don’t need that.”

HOT SPOTS: The Asheville Police Department has identified 10 geographical areas as hot spots for reported gun activity, most of which are in public housing or other lower-income neighborhoods of the city. “Since May 1, 2016, these 10 locations accounted for nearly 50 percent of all citywide gun calls,” says APD Public Information Officer Christina Hallingse. Graphic by Scott Southwick
HOT SPOTS: The Asheville Police Department has identified 10 geographical areas as hot spots for reported gun activity, most of which are in public housing or other lower-income neighborhoods of the city. “Since May 1, 2016, these 10 locations accounted for nearly 50 percent of all citywide gun calls,” says APD Public Information Officer Christina Hallingse. Graphic by Scott Southwick

Hard out there for a cop

The increasing numbers of guns in the community as a whole, and in public housing neighborhoods in particular, are a daunting challenge for Lamb and his fellow officers.

According to APD records, officers responded to more gun calls last year than in any year in the recent past. From 552 gun calls in the 2012-13 fiscal year, the department saw a 44 percent increase to 794 gun-related calls in 2015-16. The increases came across the board — in gunshot wounds, firearm discharges and calls about people with guns. The department has also seen about an 11 percent increase in violent crime, which is often gun-related.

The APD has identified 10 geographical areas as hot spots for reported gun activity, many of which are in or near public housing neighborhoods: Deaverview; Hillcrest; Ledgewood Village; Lee Walker; Livingston/Erskine/Walton vicinity; Pisgah View; Shiloh and vicinity; Smoky Park and Crowell Road vicinity; southwest portion of Shallow North and downtown vicinity; and Woodbridge Apartments. “Since May 1, 2016,these 10 locations accounted for nearly 50 percent of all citywide gun calls,” APD public information officer Christina Hallingse reports.

To deal with the threats posed by gun activity, APD officers stay up on their training. According to Hallingse, officers are required to complete a minimum of 24 hours of in-service training each year, of which 16 hours are specified by the state and eight are according to the department’s topic of choice, also known as chief’s choice. “This year,” she says, “the chief’s choice was rapid deployment (active shooter) training. Asheville Police Department personnel complete far more training hours than required by the state. Last fiscal year, officers completed 10,842 hours of training, which equates to approximately 49.5 hours of training per officer, doubling the state requirement.”

According to Hallingse, a gun-related incident changes the nature of an officer’s response. “For any call dispatched where the person is suspected to have a weapon, we send more than one unit,” she explains. “Asheville Police Department officers participate in continuous training for these types of situations. Many of these training exercises incorporate reality-based training, giving them the ability to be better prepared.”

Asheville police officers have rarely been fired upon in recent years: just three times in the fiscal year ending in 2013, and only two times since. However, reported incidents of noncompliance are on the rise: In the 2012-13 fiscal year, there were 36 assaults on police officers and 141 incidents of resisting, delaying or obstructing officers. In the 2015-16 fiscal year, the number of assaults has risen to 65, and incidents of resisting, delaying or obstructing officers have risen to 172.

Lamb’s unit deals with many gun-crime hot spots. He says the key is to have multiskilled officers who can conduct outreach, be respectful to everyone, are gifted in de-escalation and crisis intervention techniques and “have good officer safety.” “Back in the spring, we had a spike in gun discharges, shootings,” he notes. To cope, officers decided to respond in pairs, rather than ride alone, to increase their situational awareness.

Lt. Michael Lamb leads the Public Housing Unit and the Downtown Unit. Photo by Able Allen
Lt. Michael Lamb leads the Public Housing Unit and the Downtown Unit. Photo by Able Allen

Lamb says the unit doesn’t feel targeted. But, he notes, the sheer volume of gun-related incidents means there is a growing likelihood that a gun could come into play in contact between officers and the public. In addition, the guns are getting bigger and more powerful. And the unit has seen an increase in the number of rifles it encounters, he says.

Hooper calls this a “no-win situation.” Police must respond to this dangerous trend, she says, but “at the same time, we’re facing a community that doesn’t understand why we’re doing the things the way that we are.”

Despite concerns about the presence of guns in the community, Lamb emphasizes that his officers remain dedicated to community policing solutions. “Given my experience,” he says, “you have to be aware, you have to be alert that something dangerous may occur … [but] you can’t harden your heart to people, while being aware that that danger is out there.”

When selecting housing unit officers, Lamb says he considers their “soft” skills. Those officers must be able and willing to proactively participate in community meetings and build relationships with community members, he explains.

 

As part of their efforts to foster community relations, housing unit officers host their own monthly community meetings in conjunction with housing development managers. However, Lamb admits, turnout is low. And Harper recalls that, when the Residents Council used to hold open community meetings that included  the police, community members stopped showing up and were afraid to voice certain concerns.

“We could do all the outreach in the world,” laments Lamb, “and then if an officer goes to a call for service, and then something happens and [the officer is] disrespectful or they act unprofessional,” the effect is instantly eroded. As a result, Lamb says, the focus departmentwide “is that each individual call matters.” Every interaction can either improve or damage relationships, so police have to do what they can to avoid negative outcomes.

A walk in one another’s shoes

It’s tough to lay blame on who’s responsible for unsatisfactory relationships, particularly when there are so many varying perspectives on the challenges faced by the police and the plight of the disenfranchised. Gardner outlines a classic dilemma in public perception: “It ain’t about wrong or right; it’s who tells the story. It kind of goes back to when you was a kid and your momma asked who did something. If you had other siblings, whoever tell[s] the story is going to put [them]selves as the right one. … Whoever’s telling the story is right.”

A key obstacle to finding solutions, Gardner says, is that no one sees himself or herself as the source of the stalemate. “I mean, who’s going to admit to doing wrong?” he asks. “This country was built on wrong, but will they admit to that? No, so …”

Perspective, and lots of it, would be Gardner’s prescription for the situation. The department, he says, needs to start looking at things from the community’s side. He urges police officers to “try and put [them]selves in our shoes … put [them]selves in our situation. That’s the only thing you really can do. They’re not going to get nowhere viewing us from their perspective or from how they’ve been viewing us. They have to step inside our communities and experience what we go through.” For him, that’s the only way to achieve much-needed empathy. “If you’re not going to experience something [yourself], why would you care? I mean, how could you share the same passions or feel the same way if you don’t share the same experience?”

Echoing Gardner, Reid says, “If you want ideas from the community, you need to let the community’s voice be heard. And not only be heard: Take action upon that. You cannot tell me what it’s like to live in public housing if you’ve never lived in public housing.”

At a recent CPAC meeting, one discussion revolved around the way the conversation always takes place on the department’s terms. Committee member Carol Hallstrom made an impassioned case, to broad approval from the audience, for promoting more flexibility in the format of public comments that would allow a freer exchange of ideas. Hallstrom pointed out that the three-minute limit and other constraints on public comments can impose a sense of impersonal bureaucracy on the committee’s handling of issues rife with emotion and complexity.

But rather than rework the format of CPAC meetings, Hooper suggests that events such as Coffee with a Cop or neighborhood meetings would be better suited to free-form discussion. However, she notes that many of the less formal meetings, which could be opportunities for the APD to connect with the public, are poorly attended, especially by people of color.

At the same time, some in the most affected communities complain that the police aren’t showing up in the right way. At a CPAC meeting, Harper said officers should attend some community events without their full uniform and their guns. Those trappings of power are intimidating, Harper says. “It makes people not want to come or interact with police.” Her suggestion for police who want to do real community policing would be to “come on your day off … come in the community and talk to people.”

But residents of public housing aren’t the only ones who sometimes feel misunderstood. Eberhardt implored CPAC members to trust officers to make the best possible choices and to hold one another accountable in a complicated environment that only a trained officer can accurately interpret. “We can explain policies and procedures, but I think sometimes, until you are actually there … and you have about three seconds to choose [among] options A, B and about 500 other options,” he said, it’s difficult for members of the public to understand the experience of a law enforcement officer.

So, are improved relations hopeless? Gardner says he doesn’t think so. “I wouldn’t say hopeless. It’s just going to take a lot of sitting down and having that freedom of speech — being able to communicate with one another and listen to one another. I guess I could say: Be able to disagree agreeably.”

Moving forward

“Right now,” says Hooper, “people are very emotional, and social media has really driven an emotion-focused reaction to everything.”

From a procedural standpoint, she says, the justice system should not be based on emotional responses to specific incidents. While she acknowledges that recent uses of force in the field have sparked vocal opposition to how police do their business, she says that officers’ behavior must be considered in the context of policies, procedures and the law.

Police officers, Hooper continues, are entitled to the same due process as anyone else.  While she says she knows that can be hard for the community to accept, she is trying to be responsive and let people express how they feel and what they think — and to listen. Hooper says she has been attending community meetings and forums and devoting as much time as she can to being available to the public. “I don’t necessarily have an answer for everything, but I’m happy to hear what you have to say.”

Hooper expects the APD’s new body camera program to improve both accountability and relationships. In early July, officers from the Housing Unit became some of the first APD personnel to wear the cameras. The department expects to roll out the technology so that all officers on patrol or responding to calls will be outfitted with the cameras by mid-2017.

Statistics show that fewer complaints are filed against officers when cameras are present, and that should translate into better relationships, Hooper says. Whether cameras change officer behavior or the behavior of those interacting with them is unknown. So far, she continues, officers who have them like wearing them. But the cameras’ impact on public perception of police transparency may be limited by a new state law restricting public access to the footage, which goes into effect Oct. 1.

According to Hooper, the department is pursuing reforms, which take time. “A lot of what is portrayed in the media and social media makes it look like we’re not making those efforts, but we really are. We have a lot of room to grow, a lot of room to improve, and we are trying real hard to get there.”

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About Able Allen
Able studied political science and history at Warren Wilson College. He enjoys travel, dance, games, theater, blacksmithing and the great outdoors. Follow me @AbleLAllen

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93 thoughts on “Culture clash: Facing up to Asheville’s troubled police-community relations

  1. I am glad the Democrats in Asheville are much more civilized than the Dems in Charlotte. The Dems in Charlotte are rioting against whites because a black cop shot an armed back man. At least that is the evidence we have now. I am waiting for a video, that “usually” tells what really happened.

    My personal experience with cops, being arrested while a yoing man, and working with them as an old man, has taught me that about anywhere from 10 to 15 percent of LEO’s are thugs qith badges. About the same as the general public (maybe a little better).

    I understand the thug ratio. What pisses me off is the other 85 to 90 percent “good cops”, who will either say nothing about the thugs working next to them, or actually help then cover up crimes committed while under a badge.

    • bsummers

      The Dems in Charlotte are rioting against whites because a black cop shot an armed back man.

      Wow, this is truly a despicable statement.

      First of all, the “Dems” are not rioting in Charlotte, and no one is rioting against “whites”. A community, primarily people of color, is demonstrating against police violence. Why would you try to conflate them with the Democratic Party?

      Last, the family and other witnesses said he didn’t have a gun, but was holding a book when he was shot. The plainclothes police officer wasn’t wearing a camera, so there is apparently no video to corroborate the claim that Keith Scott had a gun at all.

      • Negrodamus

        “The plainclothes police officer wasn’t wearing a camera, so there is apparently no video to corroborate the claim that Keith Scott had a gun at all.”

        But popo found a gun, not a book. Ah, but I now see your point! Popo not enlightened enough to understand when a gun self-identifies as a book. I am humbled by your sage insight, grasshopper…

        • bsummers

          Weird. You insult the police by calling them ‘popo’, but blindly support the claim that he had a gun, when we all know that guns can be planted by cops in a tough situation, like accidentally killing an unarmed civilian.

          I don’t know which is the truth, and neither do you. What’s clear is that a lot of people in the community don’t trust the police not to kill them & then lie about the circumsatnces afterwards.

          • Negrodamus

            OK will it make you happy if I use use 12 instead of popo? I don’t like the word cops because it seems so disrespectful.

          • bsummers

            And there are witnesses who said there was no gun. You dismiss them out of hand. Why is that?

          • Negrodamus

            That’s why it’s unwise and counterproductive to rush to judgment and immediately assume that 12 is guilty (or innocent).

          • bsummers

            Charlotte police now say there is a dashcam video of the shooting, but they are not going to release it.

          • Negrodamus

            Yes, both fortunately and unfortunately, I believe there is a NC law that body cam footage can be kept from the public. But a white or black conclusion cannot be made from this incidence (at this point).

          • bsummers

            a white or black conclusion cannot be made

            Another unfortunate choice of words.

          • Negrodamus

            Only unfortunate for people who major in the minors…

        • bsummers

          And yes, before the predictable outrage ensues, it is a real problem. Story from just yesterday:

          St. Louis officer accused of planting gun on man that he shot after chase
          http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/st-louis-officer-accused-planting-gun-man-shot-article-1.2801097

          This cop is on trial for murder, and a heap of evidence (including the fact that only his DNA, and not the victim’s, was found on the gun) indicates that he planted the gun after running up to this man and executing him.

          • bsummers

            The article you post (along with your childish insults) is irrelevant to what I posted: a story about a police officer on trial for murder, along with strong evidence that he planted a gun on the victim.

            Perhaps you’re one of those people who want to inflame a race war, because you think it’s good politics. Trying to conflate the protesters in Charlotte with the Democratic party indicates that may be so. The rest of us would rather calm tensions, thank you very much.

          • bsummers

            Pathetic.

            Besides, your comments are forever tainted by calling the protesters in Charlotte “Dems” who are “rioting against whites”. Ultra-pathetic attempt to create partisan advantage from a tragic situation.

      • Val

        Does despicable surprise you?”My personal experience with cops, being arrested while a yoing man, and working with them as an old man” Gauge his credibility accordingly.

        • Peter Robbins

          That’s his problem — he was yoing when he should have been y’alling.

        • its called experience young one, something I hope you live long enough to “experience” someday, hopefully before your ignorance gets you that darwin award.

    • boatrocker

      I so hate that tired saying about good cops saying nothing.

      News flash- a ‘good’ cop who says nothing when a ‘bad’ cop does something illegal is not a ‘good’ cop.
      They are a ‘bad’ cop. How is this not a given in our society? Police unions.

      If the ‘good’ or ‘bad’ cop wants to hide behind the blue wall of silence, they are ethically bankrupt and do not deserve the
      honor of serving their community. Same goes for the military and the clergy.

    • The Real World

      9/23/16 And the beat goes on ………..

      From the web: As riots continue to plague Charlotte, North Carolina after a police shooting there, Rev. William Barber, president of the North Carolina chapter of the NAACP, has taken center stage in helping to shape the public narrative by commenting on the issue in the news media.

      Not only is the NAACP heavily financed by George Soros to the tune of millions of dollars, Barber himself was singled out in a hacked document from the billionaire’s Open Society Institute as part of the rationale for offering a local grant to the NAACP’s North Carolina branch.

      Time to wake up, folks. It’s amazing what people will do for a little bit of money. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/09/23/hacked-memo-naacp-leader-speaking-cops-charlotte-financed-george-soros/

    • Reality

      Chief Hooper doesn’t have a clue what’s going on in her own force. She fired an officer for failing to report a dent in a rim of a police vehicle, yet allows another officer to work while intoxicated. Do you honestly think she has a clue about the issues of people in the community?

      • not looking good for the cops, I guess this is what happens when you hire based on sex or race, rather than talent.

  2. Negrodamus

    I read somewhere that police are more likely to shoot when wearing body cameras because they know they have the evidence to back them up.

    • Val

      Sure coupled with the fact that they have laws enacted which prevents the public from seeing police footage; I wonder why!!!? You actually think that a DA would allow footage from a cops body cam that proved wrong doing to be made public?? Absolutely not! THE only ones that are being made public are the ones that the by standers are turning over to the media.

    • I would have to disagree with at one. Most folks, including cops, behave better when they know they are being watched. I saw a great video where a bunch of cops have a guy pinned down on the trunk of a car, and you can see one cop pull something out of his own back pocket and proclaim, “look what I found”, another cop turns around, looks right at the dash cam, and then steps in front of the cam, but he did not get the angle right, you could still see the other cop “planting” the evidence.

  3. Negrodamus

    “Statistics show that fewer complaints are filed against officers when cameras are present, and that should translate into better relationships”

    This angle was obscured from my vision. Negrodamus now say, “Wise po po with all seeing go-pro say ‘Smile, you’re on (not-so) candid camera.’

    • more and more cams in public places will help eliminate lying in court. You may also need an app to quickly upload video in case the cops try to grab your cell. Skype Qik is not to bad.

  4. Deplorable Infidel

    Public housing residents are perfectly welcome to conduct their own community watches without popo help if they wish to
    organize and handle the situation, but most are too reclusive to show any resolve…but at least we got all the poor people SEGREGATED into ‘communities of similar people’ …it’s a democrackkk dream come true in Asheville where public housing is THE biggest bloated blight on the whole city. Now they want even MORE ghetto creation in the city. It really should be OUTLAWED by the taxpayers.

    • bsummers

      Oh look, another Fred Caudle puppet. Who could’ve seen that coming when the issue is race? You really hate public housing, don’t you… Do you live nearby one or something?

      It really should be OUTLAWED by the taxpayers.

      Taxpayers don’t write the laws, Fisher Caudle, not even the ones who use all caps. But hey – why don’t you start a petition drive to put a referendum on the ballot to stop all public housing? Good luck with all that.

  5. bsummers

    The law restricting the release of police video does not take effect until October. The City of Charlotte is sitting on a video of the shooting that they could release if they chose to.

  6. Lulz

    LOL, the culmination of decades of welfare babies and uneducated fools. Congrats lefty loony pinkos, you created a monster.

    • DreadT

      OR, the culmination of ignorant, narrow minded people who use stereotypes to paint simplistic broad pictures of complex situations that have multiple players who share the responsibility.

      • Lulz

        No, nothing complex except blacks accepting crony government handouts and then wondering why they never progress. They could actually evolve if their women didn’t get pregnant at 13 and their men actually like got educated., But of course that doesn’t compute in your mind because your view of them is of one where blacks are substandard. It’s why you think manipulating them with freebies instead of motivating them to like be something is never mentioned by cronies like yourself.

        • DreadT

          Wow! Thanks again for demonstrating what broad stereotypes look like. Your comments sound like you consider blacks to be substandard, not I. Take your racism elsewhere.

    • Val

      I can assure you that the weathly victims of the French Revolution; regret to this day in their graves that they didnt “create welfare babies”…. You take the monthly checks these people get from the government, you take away their bread and milk so they cant feed their children and they’ll be storming your streets and they won’t be gently knocking at your door…. Hence quantitative easing

      • Lulz

        I can assure you blacks will never progress as long as people like you are in their corner. Never.

  7. Richard B.

    Mr. Allen’s article has substantial omissions, as well as quotes by community activists that go unchallenged, or unexplained, that one could,
    perhaps mistakenly, sense a bias.
    For example, a comparison cannot be made concerning the relevance or understanding of the number of arrests by group without
    providing the number of crimes committed by each group. This is basic reporting.
    And if you state the number of arrests by group, and do not provide the number of each group of the 141 resisting arrest, one begins to wonder.
    Mr. Allen’s article does a very good and comprehensive job of describing the huge and costly (taxpayer money) efforts, training, and other resources being made by the APD and city officials to improve relations between law enforcement and communities where claims are being made of prejudicial over-policing.
    However, with the almost desperate appeal of the Commissioner for more ideas and input, and with the article not being able to detail much effort from the other side (the Community), except for history based diatribes and verbal sparring, one also wonders if progress is attainable without equal motivation of both parties. Sadly, it is not evident from the perspective of this article. And predictably, the charges of
    intimidation, racist overtones of the APD, and other unproductive rants, will continue, effectively shutting down well intended solutions.

    • Able Allen

      Mr.B, Thank you for the feedback, it certainly is a difficult issue. The reason I did not include statistics on the number of actual crimes committed by each group is that there is no record of crimes that go unreported. There are many possible explanations for the higher arrest rate of African-Americans. Many of those explanations exclude racism on the part of police including the possibility that African-Americans commit proportionally more crimes than white people- there is just no way to prove or disprove that. It may also be that economic status is a greater contributing factor to risk of arrest, but that is also difficult to track. It is possible that I could have obtained the demographic breakdown for the resisting offenses, but I am not sure it would have added much clarity to the picture.
      As far as the unchallenged quotes, I see what you are getting at here, but there is no way to prove or disprove the notion that “the system is broken”- that is, I think, a socially important perception on which I was reporting. Those unchallenged quotes are meant to capture the socio-political situation rather than actually present facts.
      As for your last point, I don’t think there is evidence to support the notion that these are “unproductive rants” – it is much like criticism of a political candidate, the facts don’t matter quite as much as perception for outcomes. I hope that this article got that across- The situation seems to me to be more in the realm of diplomacy than in the realm of bureaucratic problems. Currently, from the perspective of everyone I spoke with in the black community, the ball is in the police department’s court to bring acceptable conditions. However the situation reminds me of the Occupy Wall St. movement- there is more vocal dissatisfaction than there are leaders or clear demands. The issues are not clear, but they are important to try to understand.

      • Richard B.

        Appreciate your response. However, I do not understand your mention of unreported crime, as my comment concerns the race,
        ethnicity, etc. of all REPORTED crimes, which is what you quote re the arrest stats. Comparing that ratio would, of course, prove or disprove the theory you mention above of African-Americans committing more crimes per capita than other races. If this theory were to be proven true, then of course it would be a major factor for the higher per capita arrest rate. I know for certain that it is on the federal level, which I presume the Feds gather from local data. (I am not saying that I am a fan of
        identifying criminals by color, race, etc., as I believe that we place entirely too much emphasis on identifying race and skin color on official forms at all levels of government).
        And Mr. Allen, I do believe that resisting arrest on the part of anyone of any skin tone will result in less than positive outcomes, up to and including physical injuries or worse to those that think it is okay to do so. Therefore I must disagree strongly with you that
        resisting arrest stats would not add to the discussion, or ‘clarity of the picture’, no matter the race. It is quite obvious, I think, to reasonable people, that it makes no sense to resist law enforcement. That is why our justice system exists. There was a time when skin color absolutely mattered when it came to justice, particularly in the Jim Crow South. That simply is not the case today, as highlighted by learning a few hours ago that the Tulsa policewoman will face murder charges.
        While acknowledging that my personality profile is that of a pragmatic, rational/logical type, I do believe that the police-community discussion of making progress would benefit greatly by looking ahead rather than back; by putting the statistics aside, (as they most likely show that both interested parties might have areas of growth); by agreeing that rational dialogue, versus repeating a litany of past transgressions, would be much more productive; and that a degree of humility and resisting taking the high moral ground by both parties, would move the discussions forward. Not to mention setting aside the high emotionality evoked when getting ramped up on past injustices, which are indeed a fact of our nation’s history. And human progress is made only when a community is willing and able to look to the future with hope and courage, not to remain stuck with what cannot be changed.

        • Richard B.

          And I repeat, it is obvious that you put a good deal of time and effort into your article.
          It is quite comprehensive, and covers a lot of ground on what is a very complex, difficult social issue.
          Not only in Asheville, but all across this country. Continue to keep the discussion front and center.
          Richard

        • from a personal perspective, in the rip roaring 70’s when police brutality was less reported, me and my white buddies provided some anecdotal data. I never got my ass beat up. When dealing with the police, I always said yes sir, no sir and a lot more yes sirs than no sirs. Even with guns pointed at me (for no good reason, other than the cop could). Several of y white buddies could not keep their mouths shut, and suffered the consequences. As for shootings, my theory is back then, a cop had 6 bullets (5 if he was smarter, ie none under the hammer). So he was less likely to fire 15 or 30 rounds up front in an encounter. He did not want to run out of ammo, if he ended up really needing it. Today, their training includes spray and pray, and in addition to the “victim” they are aiming at, they also shoot a lot of innocent bystanders. Of course, I assume it’s a lot, because we have no idea how many innocent bystanders are shot each year. The Feds do not require local police depts to send that data into a Fed database. It may be coincidence, but I believe the cops did not shoot as many people until they got army guns and high capacity weapons. The threat of massive firepower from criminals never really materialized, but the response to that has.

    • bsummers

      The stats and the types of charges have historically been a little bit of a game on the part of the APD and the Buncombe DA. I don’t have any firsthand knowledge recently, but when I & 30 others were arrested during the Iraq War protests in 2003, every single one of us was charged with resisting – whether we had resisted or not. The threat of two years in prison for resisting arrest made most of us happy to take a plea deal & pay the $50 fine for jaywalking. We were clearly unpopular with many of the APD officers for protesting the invasion, and they clearly thought the broader community held us in the same contempt.

      I suspect if you had an honest accounting of what was really behind many of the arrests tallied here, there would emerge a similar bias against certain types of people and situations.

  8. bsummers

    GOP Congressman Robert Pittenger, who represents parts of Charlotte, explained the protests underway in his city:

    “The grievance in their mind, the animus, the anger — they hate white people because white people are successful and they’re not.”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/robert-pittenger-charlotte-protestors_us_57e467b5e4b08d73b8308ada?section=&

    He’s already tried to apologize, but seriously – what is the process for impeaching a member of Congress? Anyone know?

    • Huhsure

      Wow. It always takes my breath away when a racist makes their inner thoughts public.

    • Val

      I Wonder why this article is singling out Asheville Police Department? It’s a nationwide issue that needs to be resolved ASAP …Clearly; their trigger happy “shoot to kill” policy is too easily defended by their ” I felt my life was in danger ” excuse, which keeps them from being incriminated 99.9% of the time . If a cop isn’t willing to put themselves in danger; then they shouldn’t be cops ! This is having serious repercussions nationwide (riots/ cops getting picked off from rooftops) primarily due to the videotaping of these horrendous murders; which has obviously been going on for sometime, but is only an issue now that it’s getting videotaped… I find it ironic that the conservative base is very proud of owning guns; and lobbies hard for gun rights.; Yet they’re the first to defend a trigger happy cop for murdering someone who was carrying (NOT POINTING) a gun during an arrest it during questioning. Yes that’s right; if you have a gun and are not pointing it at a cop during any kind of altercation; it’s their policy to shoot to kill…. Policing policy has to change dramatically as it’s not compatible with all races or all communities!!

      • Negrodamus

        You make a nice armchair quarterback. FWIW, it can take less than a second to point a gun and pull the trigger. That kind of life threatening situation needs to be dealt with sensibly, meaning that when popo tells someone to drop the gun, that person needs do it. Don’t aggravate the situation into irremediable escalation by doing something stupid to make popo feel threatened by not doing what he tells you to do. Which seems to be the cause of most of these episodes that we’re seeing.

        • Val

          “Most”… Nice save; Because many were unarmed. 1 was choked to death for selling loose cigarettes in NYC. 1 was a 9 y/o in a playground with a toy gun. 1 was running away from a cop while he was being stopped for a missing tail-light. 1 was shot when he called the cops bc he was being robbed by a black man; cops thought he was the black man and when they showed up; they shot him (the guy being robbed). WAKE UP!!
          Police policy needs to change NATIONWIDE. If a cop cant assume more danger while putting themselves in harms way; then they have no business being a cop!

        • Val

          And I will gladly continue to aggregate any unjust situation. A few years ago I was riding motorcycle thru a road block.
          I was coming back from the grocery store and had the groceries in the rear cart.
          As i drive up the officers; ones asked me questions; while the others going thru my cart.
          I aggressively reminded them that without probably cause or informed consent they had NO RIGHT to search me.
          They took this as a threat to their authority. And pulled me aside and became combative blatantly instigating an altercation; after going back and forth a supervisor came to see what was up.
          I told them what happened; and much to my surprise the supervisor reminded the rookie I was right…. I was let go. Supervisor did this because I wouldn’t let up!
          Yes it would’ve been easy to just let them go thru my stuff; I had nothing to hide.
          But maybe next rookie cop will think twice about exerting authority they didn’t have a right to exert.

        • luther blissett

          “when popo tells someone to drop the gun, that person needs do it.”

          The cop who shot Terence Crutcher in Tulsa (after ample time to get her story straight) said that she found it “strange” that Crutcher put his hands up without being told.

          When Philando Castile was stopped, he told the cop that he had a legal weapon in his car, and that didn’t stop him getting five bullets in him when reaching for his license. The other cop on the scene is recorded as saying his partner messed up.

          So when you have cops giving orders and then opening fire when those orders are followed, or cops treating black men as suspicious because they do the things they’ve been taught to do to avoid getting shot by police, your rationale seems pretty suspect.

          More training, less steroids.

      • Richard B.

        What??? If you are stopped by law enforcement, and you are holding a gun, in other words presenting a lethal challenge, the officers’ decision should be based on your race or where you live? Not compatible? Tell me I am reading you wrong. Please.

        • Val

          What am I being stopped for? Was I being mistaken for another “black male” who fit my description?? Do I have a gun permit? Am I pointing the gun at law enforcement?
          If I have a gun by my side and don’t drop it; should cops have a right to shoot to kill?
          The answer to some questions matter.
          Looking at the womans video of her husband being murdered while she plead with the officers; while they paid her no attentions whatsoever. Didn’t show her any respect …; those police made that slaying look way to easy….
          And whether or not he had a gun; ” I feared for my life” is their get out of jail card.

  9. The Real World

    This deal had a fishy smell from the get-go. I’ve spent plenty of time in Charlotte, previously having had some family and friends there. I’ve never picked up on this sort of karma in that city nor have any of the people I know mentioned it. At all.

    So, most importantly: (below copy / pasted from online article)
    Who Is Behind The Riots? Charlotte Police Says 70% Of Arrested Protesters Had Out Of State IDs

    Confirming what many had suspected when viewing the sudden and intense collapse into anarchy that occurred in Charlotte this week, Todd Walther, spokesman for the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Fraternal Order of Police told CNN’s Erin Burnett: “This is not Charlotte that’s out here. These are outside entities that are coming in and causing these problems. These are not protesters, these are criminals.”

    “We’ve got the instigators that are coming in from the outside. They were coming in on buses from out of state. If you go back and look at some of the arrests that were made last night. I can about say probably 70% of those had out-of-state IDs. They’re not coming from Charlotte.”

    As shocking as this statement is, it should not be a total surprise. 18 months ago, as the riots flared in Ferguson, there was one man pulling the strings of this ‘domestic false flag’… George Soros. In an apparent effort to keep the media’s attention on the city and to widen the scope of the incident to focus on interrelated causes — not just the over-policing and racial discrimination narratives that were highlighted by the news media in August, billionaire George Soros donated $33 million to social justice organizations which helped turn events in Ferguson from a local protest into a national flashpoint.

    Still not buying it? As The New American recently reported, Ken Zimmerman, the director of U.S. programs at Soros’s Open Society Foundations (OSF), denied last year that Soros had funded Black Lives Matter, saying it was just a rumor.

    That was before hackers with DC Leaks.com published OSF documents showing that the Soros group had already given at least $650,000 directly to BLM. (end copy / paste)

    Oh, there’s lots more. He has also been very instrumental in organizing and pushing intently for much of the Middle Eastern/North African immigration the last many years. And people think all of these things are just organic happenings. Not so! This demented and very powerful guy is an international wrecking ball. You all would do yourselves a service to read up about him. I’m reposting a link that gives a very good synopsis of him and his twisted worldview. http://www.garretgalland.com/passing-parade/how-george-soros-singlehandedly-created-the-european-refugee-crisisand-why/

    • boatrocker

      How many ways are there to say ‘screw corrupt police unions’?

    • bsummers

      “I can about say probably 70% of those had out-of-state IDs. They’re not coming from Charlotte.”

      The police union spokesman who said this now admits it was a total fabrication. He lied through his teeth, and you believed him, and helped spread disinformation.

      “An independent analysis from the Observer found that 79 percent of the protesters arrested were in fact Charlotte residents. The rest lived in other parts of North Carolina such as Albemarle, Gastonia and Greensboro.

      “On Friday, Wather admitted his comments were inaccurate and merely based on speculation.

      “I didn’t quote facts,” Walther, told the Observer on Friday. “It’s speculation. That’s all it was.””
      http://www.businessinsider.com/i-didnt-quote-facts-charlotte-police-official-walks-back-statement-on-protesters-2016-9

      Will this truthful statement be spread around anywhere near as much as the original lie? Of course not. People (like you?) will continue to spread the lie, because it helps support this phony Clinton-Soros-Democratic Party nonsense you’re spinning in order to distract from the real issue.

      • The Real World

        This has a fishy smell. The tone of his updated statement, which you posted above, sounds as if he may have been instructed to say that. A police spokesman would have had plenty of training and be very disinclined to fabricate info as it could be grounds for dismissal and would certainly deal a blow to his professional credibility.

        So we’re supposed to believe that he decides to double-down and risk his job by further embellishing that there were buses coming in with these folks? He said: “They were coming in on buses from out of state. ”

        If he DID fabricate all of that originally, then he should be demoted pronto. It would be a job disqualifier. But, somehow, methinks he’s keeping his job…if you get my drift.

        Hello??? “phony Clinton-Soros……” You have taken denial to the 30,000 foot level. How old are you anyway that you can be so naive? What Soros is doing is widely known (and hacks into his emails have proven it) but, nope, you won’t find him spoken of on the nightly news. That’s intentional.

        It’s not my fault that the Clinton’s have a desire to associate themselves with world class under-handed types. Isn’t it interesting how all of this, the last few days, has distracted the media from covering politics as HRC is sinking in the polls?

        • bsummers

          And, to no one’s great surprise, you take this setback to your conspiracy theories & try to turn it into validation. This guy’s claim that a whole bunch of outside agitators are responsible for the unrest in Charlotte is the basis for the Clinton/Soros tinfoil crap you’re pushing. The Charlotte Observer went down & reviewed the arrest records, and found no outside agitators. He had no choice but to recant.

          “But, somehow, methinks he’s keeping his job…if you get my drift.”

          But AHA! says the tinfoil. The fact that he’s recanting is evidence that maybe he was in on it in the first place! Yes… yes… it’s not at all about police killings, is it? It’s about HRC and Soros! Yes, that’s much more satisfying to chew on, isn’t it?

          Pathetic.

  10. Negrodamus

    Convinced? https://www.yahoo.com/news/family-sees-video-charlotte-police-shooting-black-man-000556982.html

    “A gun recovered at the scene of the fatal shooting of a black man by police in Charlotte, North Carolina, was loaded and had fingerprints matching those of the victim, CNN reported on Friday as the man’s family released its own video of the encounter.” A video in which, I might add, the wife is heard repeatedly saying:

    “Don’t do it, Keith. Get out of the car. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. Get out of the car. Don’t do it.”

    Inquiring minds want to know: Don’t do what?

    • Negrodamus

      According to his wife, this guy that got shot had a traumatic brain injury (TBI) and was on meds. Looks like under stress in that condition he defaulted to his cultural training to not cooperate with the police, which resulted in escalation into tragic consequences. Racism had nothing to do with this unfortunate event.

      • Negrodamus

        Suicide by cop: get out of a car with a gun and back away from police with with your arms by your sides with police with drawn guns yelling at you to drop your weapon. Remember, it takes less than a second to raise that gun and fire. Police have lives and families too.

        The guy had pot with him, so maybe that had some kind of weird reaction with the brain trauma meds he was taking. Pretty sad.

  11. Val

    It’s typically hypocritical of all WHO promote gun rights (which were enacted primarily to protect oneself from the government) to immediately side with what seems to be an antagonistic government police force whom are blatantly profiling and murdering blacks nationwide. Yet when these people pull out a gun to protect themselves (essentially exercising their right to bear arms) from said antagonistic government police force; they deserve to be shot to death.

    “Critical thinking; our biggest national deficit!!!

    • Negrodamus

      Critical thinking recognizes your personal bias that causes you to paint all popo with the same wide, brush, make assumptions that are simply not realistic (e.g, that all popo are antagonistic profiling murders) and try to make opinion look like fact. You apparently want to think that you are a critical thinker, but you are not (at least in this instance). You think viscerally. Critical thinking requires distancing one’s self from one’s preconceptions, biases and agendas.

      • Lulz

        LOL, you’re trying to rationalize with someone who hates white men. Don’t bother. They are lost.

      • Val

        Where have I suggested it’s ALL cops?
        I’m references what appears to be a national police policy. Are you suggesting that ones agendas and perceptions cannot be a result of criticical thinking?

      • boatrocker

        Even 1 corrupt cop = examine the entire batch of apples for more rotten ones, as it seems to be quite contagious.
        Unless you would sacrifice your child. But of course you would not.

  12. boatrocker

    For perusing the news this morning, I actually find it hilarious that black looters looted the NASCAR museum.

    I think they forgot, however;

    The early bird special at Denny’s
    Chik Fil A
    The As Seen on TV store at the mall
    botox clinics
    a Toby Keith concert
    tattoo parlors that actually agree to Tweety Bird tattoos on one’s ankle
    any Cracker Barrel gift shop

    That’s how you hit Scared White Willfully Ignorant Angry America where it really hurts.

  13. bsummers

    The Charlotte police union spokesman who said on CNN that 70% of the arrested protesters were from out of state, now admits that it was a complete lie. In fact, 79% were from Charlotte, the rest from surrounding towns. Golly, can you imagine why there is distrust from the community towards the police?

    “I didn’t quote facts,” Walther, told the Observer on Friday. “It’s speculation. That’s all it was.”
    http://www.businessinsider.com/i-didnt-quote-facts-charlotte-police-official-walks-back-statement-on-protesters-2016-9

  14. The Real World

    “that it was a complete lie” — in his new quote you posted, he said nothing of the kind. He said, he was speculating. Which either means you don’t know your definitions or you’re stooping to tabloid behavior (Huff Po will do that to you).

    bsummers must be on the George Soros payroll. Does he pay well enough to sleep at night?

    I make a speculative counter-argument to all of this above.

    • bsummers

      “If you go back and look at some of the arrests that were made last night. I can about say probably 70% of those had out-of-state IDs.”

      That was his original statement on CNN. He didn’t say, “I would bet that most of them are from out-of-state”, or “I suspect that if you looked at the the records, you’ll find that a lot of them are from out-of-state”. He stated it clearly as if he had seen the arrest records himself. Admitting that he made that up is admitting that it was a lie. Buying into the “it wasn’t lying, it was “speculating”” line, is just helping the lie.

      But that’s what you get paid for, isn’t it, Anonymous Sockpuppet?

      • Negrodamus

        The guy’s wording was too imprecise for your indignation to really mean anything. He said, if you look at some of the arrests, not all of the arrests. He did not say that 70% of all arrests were outsiders.

        • bsummers

          BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!

          That’s the saddest thing I’ve heard in a long time. You’re suggesting that he meant “70% of some of the arrests were outsiders”? Oh good lord, that’s weak. I mean it, that’s pretty much the weakest s*** I’ve seen on these threads, EVER, and that’s saying something.

          Besides, genius – the Charlotte Observer looked through all the arrest records, and didn’t find a single out-of-state ID.

          Well, bsummers, that doesn’t mean that 70% of some of the imaginary arrest records don’t have out-of-state IDs. Ha!

          • Negrodamus

            Good grief man, don’t you understand that words mean what they say? The person was careful to say ‘some of the arrests’. But no, you read into it what you want to see.

          • Peter Robbins

            Typical Dems. Can’t even get the buses to run on time.

  15. bsummers

    This is getting too stupid to continue. Here I am playing their game – distract from the real issues. I’m done.

    • Peter Robbins

      I can say that probably 70 percent of the troublemakers who have disrupted the peace and good order of this thread are from out of state. It’s true. I can say that. I can.

    • The Real World

      Barry backs himself into these corners by impulsively grasping onto anything that fits the version that he prefers. Upon the spokesman making a new statement you’d think he’d say, “well this is interesting, how do you square that, RW?” But, that didn’t happen. Somehow that very special kind of logic dictates him declaring the new statement is the truth while having declared the spokesman to be a liar. Are you following this, dear readers?

      And not pausing to consider WHY would the guy say that a majority of the arrested were from out of state and came on buses, if it weren’t true. He could lose his job if such a statement were blatantly false. Nope, no pause to consider that. The details, from the Charlotte Observer: The Observer reviewed CMPD arrest reports between midnight and 2 a.m. Thursday. There were 31 people arrested for failure to disperse, six people arrested for breaking and entering, one for assault on a government official; two for larceny after break-in; two for resisting an officer and disorderly conduct; and one arrest for larceny and injury to property.
      They reviewed 2 hours of arrest records, how thorough! (And note that the crimes indicated were just from that 2 hour period!) How is that not considered rioting? But, the second post in this thread you’ll find Barry declaring it “despicable” that the first commenter described the events that way…..as well as running with the wacky idea that Keith Scott was carrying a book. Gee, I’ve never seen a book shaped like that.

      Then when the going gets rough the “tin-foil hat” crap comes out. Aren’t you folks embarrassed yet about being taught to reflexively spout that whenever you hear something you don’t like? People declaring Hillary to be lying continually about her email servers and about her serious health problems, Bernie accusing the election system of being rigged and the DNC corrupt….on and on – ALL TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE. Actual conspiracy, not theory. Hello?

      Personally, I’d own the embarrassment and wake up to the fraud, but that’s me. You all let your “leaders” play you like fiddles. They love you for it.

      • bsummers

        But, the second post in this thread you’ll find Barry declaring it “despicable” that the first commenter described the events that way

        Once again you’re proved yourself to be a deliberate liar. My “despicable” comment above was referring to the previous commenter trying to portray the protesters as “Dems”, ie., trying to link the protests over police violence to the Democratic Party. That truly is despicable, as are your attempts to misrepresent my statements. As you prepare to ramp it up, consider the repercussions of deliberate libel.

        http://mountainx.com/news/culture-clash-facing-up-to-ashevilles-troubled-police-community-relations/#comment-2601585

      • Able Allen

        Please stay on topic and do not devolve into finger pointing and name calling at one another.

  16. The Real World

    And for those who doubt the authenticity of some of the media portrayals and are interested in more info about how amazingly quickly these groups seem to gather…and turn violent. Decide for yourselves whether there are professional organizations behind it.

    http://ijr.com/2016/09/699413-charlotte-cop-offers-proof-that-riot-instigators-arent-local-70-of-arrested-had-out-of-state-ids/ Excerpted piece (see links in article for more detail): Just as in Charlotte, fires, violence, and looting also erupted during the Ferguson protests over the shooting of Michael Brown. At the time, many also believed that “out of town professional protesters” were traveling to Ferguson from afar and “inciting violence.”

    After a review of police records, NPR reported that many of those arrested during the Ferguson protests were also, in fact, not locals: “In fact, of the 51 people who were arrested Tuesday night and Wednesday morning, only one person was from Ferguson. The rest were from surrounding towns and faraway cities such as Des Moines, Iowa, Chicago and New York.” Similar figures were also seen during the Baton Rouge protests in July.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    http://ijr.com/opinion/2016/07/257786-outside-groups-attempting-stir-pot-baton-rouge/

    Excerpts: Of the 50 protesters arrested in Baton Rouge Sunday afternoon, 12 were out of state residents, and 32 were from outside the Baton Rouge area.

    African American State Representative Ted James (D-Baton Rouge) and businessman Cleve Dunn, Jr. spoke to a group of 35 Republicans about the shooting. Rep. James repeatedly reiterated that local organizers have told out of town protesters that they must adhere to the peaceful tone that Baton Rouge residents have established for the protests and marches.

    “Other people [out of town protesters] have come into town for their own interest, but they need to adopt our philosophy — these people won’t have the love of this community that we do,” said Cleve Dunn, Jr., who also spoke.

  17. boatrocker

    Hmmm, just out of curiosity-

    Why is an out of towner considered sub human when attending a protest?
    Why should it matter where someone is from if someone actually, you know, doesn’t like unarmed people of color being shot?

    The Boston Tea Party? Yes, outta towners attended.
    The Boston Massacre? Same
    Were the Freedom Riders from the civil rights era nothing more than troublemakers?

    For a guy who has lived here for a whole 3 years in your own words, according to your own logic, why are you even posting here?
    Would that not make you an out of town agitator?

    And can you address that without exposing a Soros fetish, or accusing other posters who disagree with you as being gullible under educated rubes,
    as that really does not pertain to my question?

    Finally, talk to me about those police unions. Are they helping or hurting?

  18. bsummers

    One last comment to be completely twisted into a pretzel, ignored, or claimed as proof of the exact opposite from the facts it contains. The Charlotte/Mecklenberg Police Dept. official announcement of the number/IDs of the arrestees from Tuesday through Saturday:

    CMPD News ‏@CMPD Sep 24
    47 arrested since Tuesday. Of those, 37 are from Charlotte and 41 are from N.C.

    https://twitter.com/CMPD/status/779525837481738240

    • Negrodamus

      That means that 6 were from out of state. If the person was telling the truth, then during the time window of which he spoke in which he witnessed arrests (a time window indeed because he said ‘some’, not ‘all’, arrests), 6 were from out of state and 2 or 3 were from NC.

  19. Reality

    Chief Hooper doesn’t even know most of the APD officers. She fired one whose reputation was well liked by many for failing to report a dented tire rim. She continues to allow another higher ranking officer to report to duty while under the influence of alcohol. Do you honestly think she’s aware of the community issues or is fair to the diversity of Asheville? LGBTQ maybe. …..

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