The liberal smackdown expands

Recently the Carolina Stompers have been challenged to a debate by the local witches and pagans of Asheville [“Let’s Have a Good Ol’ Stomp-and-Chant,” Dec. 26, 2007]. Our answer to [our challengers] is “no”—they have already been stomped.

What started all of their hysteria comes from a commercial we put on WLOS and YouTube, showing just how crazy Asheville has become since the liberals have taken over. It showed a Democratic candidate for Asheville City Council dancing with witches, pagans and liberals around a tree. They hugged this tree, kissed the tree and sang to this tree. Embarrassing them again in a debate would be just too cruel.

Fictional movies like [the] Harry Potter [films] are fun and entertaining, but everyone knows that brooms don’t fly and owls don’t deliver the mail. People who believe in that kind of thing are no different than the cult that killed themselves to catch a ride with a space ship following the Hale-Bopp Comet, or the group that saw the movie The Matrix and believed it, then called it a religion.

Witches, anarchists, atheists, occults, openly gay, war haters—the Democratic Party loves you. Liberal strategists know you scream loud for attention. You are different, and you appeal to young, rebellious, naive minds [and] thus votes for the leftist agenda.

Our fight is not with a small group of Disneyland witches. Our fight is with the entire liberal agenda that corrupts our children’s minds.

If it’s a debate they want, then Carolina Stompers challenges the local Democratic Party, since they represent the driving force behind destroying America.

Here are some issues we would like to debate:
1. The purpose and the way we fight the war on terror.
2. Was our country founded on Christianity?
3. Conservatives or liberals—who puts more money in your pocket to keep and how?
4. The future of Buncombe County: jobs, taxes, environment, health care, sustained government.
5. Is the way you have sex a civil right?
6. Democrats or Republicans—who is the champion for minorities in America?

Carolina Stompers will sponsor the debates.

We would ask the Mountain Xpress and other reporting agencies to moderate each debate.

If the Buncombe County Democratic Party would like to accept our challenge, we can be reached at As for Mr. and Mrs. Voldamort, maybe the Democratic Party will put them on their debate team.

— Chad Nesbitt, founder
Carolina Stompers


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247 thoughts on “The liberal smackdown expands

  1. Dionysis

    Fascists, authoritarians, despots, talibangelicals, closeted gay pedophiles, intolerant cretins, war-mongerers, the Republicon Pary loves you.

    Our fight is not with local boneheads, our fight is with the entire protofascist agenda that is destroying American freedoms and values.

  2. Chuck Zimmerman

    Once again another nitwit who chooses not to learn the lessons of OUR History.
    From this Deistic embrace of John Locke’s Theory of Toleration, OUR Declaration of Independance, Constitution, Bill of Rights was created.
    Does it sound Trinitarrian to anyone?

    Virginia Declaration of Rights

    I That all men are by nature equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

    II That all power is vested in, and consequently derived from, the people; that magistrates are their trustees and servants, and at all times amenable to them.

    III That government is, or ought to be, instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation or community; of all the various modes and forms of government that is best, which is capable of producing the greatest degree of happiness and safety and is most effectually secured against the danger of maladministration; and that, whenever any government shall be found inadequate or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter or abolish it, in such manner as shall be judged most conducive to the public weal.

    IV That no man, or set of men, are entitled to exclusive or separate emoluments or privileges from the community, but in consideration of public services; which, not being descendible, neither ought the offices of magistrate, legislator, or judge be hereditary.

    V That the legislative and executive powers of the state should be separate and distinct from the judicative; and, that the members of the two first may be restrained from oppression by feeling and participating the burthens of the people, they should, at fixed periods, be reduced to a private station, return into that body from which they were originally taken, and the vacancies be supplied by frequent, certain, and regular elections in which all, or any part of the former members, to be again eligible, or ineligible, as the laws shall direct.

    VI That elections of members to serve as representatives of the people in assembly ought to be free; and that all men, having sufficient evidence of permanent common interest with, and attachment to, the community have the right of suffrage and cannot be taxed or deprived of their property for public uses without their own consent or that of their representatives so elected, nor bound by any law to which they have not, in like manner, assented, for the public good.

    VII That all power of suspending laws, or the execution of laws, by any authority without consent of the representatives of the people is injurious to their rights and ought not to be exercised.

    VIII That in all capital or criminal prosecutions a man hath a right to demand the cause and nature of his accusation to be confronted with the accusers and witnesses, to call for evidence in his favor, and to a speedy trial by an impartial jury of his vicinage, without whose unanimous consent he cannot be found guilty, nor can he be compelled to give evidence against himself; that no man be deprived of his liberty except by the law of the land or the judgement of his peers.

    IX That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed; nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

    X That general warrants, whereby any officer or messenger may be commanded to search suspected places without evidence of a fact committed, or to seize any person or persons not named, or whose offense is not particularly described and supported by evidence, are grievous and oppressive and ought not to be granted.

    XI That in controversies respecting property and in suits between man and man, the ancient trial by jury is preferable to any other and ought to be held sacred.

    XII That the freedom of the press is one of the greatest bulwarks of liberty and can never be restrained but by despotic governments.

    XIII That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and be governed by, the civil power.

    XIV That the people have a right to uniform government; and therefore, that no government separate from, or independent of, the government of Virginia, ought to be erected or established within the limits thereof.

    XV That no free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue and by frequent recurrence to fundamental principles.

    XVI That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore, all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other.

    Adopted unanimously June 12, 1776 Virginia Convention of Delegates drafted by Mr. George Mason

  3. Johnny

    “5. Is the way you have sex a civil right?”

    Hey Chad, is it any of your business?

  4. How clever: Avoid a formidable challenge by simply declaring victory and then change the subject.

    Why didn’t I think of that?

  5. Trey

    Fictional books like the bible are fun and entertaining, but everybody knows that you can’t change water to wine or be nailed to a cross and come back to life. People who believe in that are no different from ANY OTHER CULT.

  6. Ex-Pat

    I’m all for more democracy and dialogue. However, I might take exception to Xpress dignifying with front page publicity the mid-19th century, gutter-level discourse that the Stompers represent.

    A friend of mine brought up an interesting point: considering the rich, dignified and multifarious history of worthwhile activist organizations in Asheville, how many others has the Xpress afforded such coverage and have dignified with a forum? I understand the “give-em-enough-rope” theory, but apparently that maxim has it’s limits, as the value of the Stompers’ sensationalism would seem to attest.

    Hey, Xpress…please reconsider this editorial strategy in the future. It really does nothing more than egg on the bottim-feeders.

  7. May Hemm

    Regarding 2)
    I’m sure that Deism vs. Christianity is the argument you want to engage in. Deism is a sub-category of theism, in that both entail belief in a deity. Like theism, deism is not a religion in itself, but rather a basic belief upon which religions can be built. This (Deism) is the foundation for the Constitutional references to Religion. Your kind have sought to twist it almost from the beginning, using christ’s quite apparent approval of slavery, for instance.
    The founders of this country knew from experience that the sanctioning by state or nation, of any one set of religious beliefs would be disastrous. Yet the movement toward government-sanctioned religion has gained political strength in the last generation or so. The effects of this are a little frightening to many people – i.e. the race toward armageddon via Zionism. The problem with Deism for you is that no particular sect of your faith is given superior standing over another – and what you want is POWER, not freedom.
    For instance homosexuality is mentioned negatively in the old testament (but so are many things, such as NOT stoning a woman to death for adultery, ejacultaing outside a vagina, and working on sundays. (all punishable by death in the old testament).

    Do you really think we ought to open the door for fanatics to create religious laws in a free nation? Once the precedent is set for religious control of our system, what would prevent radical Islam from imposing laws here? No doubt you have a problem with radical Islam, which admittedly is even scarier than your kind. Here’s the thing: If power is what you seek (and it is), what makes you any different from a muslim who insists shariah law be imposed (by nations)? You think the Bible is a more loving book than the Q’uran? Not by much. Given, I don’t see much christian jihad going on – but once the precedent is set for christianity to be regarded as the state religion – what keeps future militant christians from control of the nation with biblical-type violence?
    The Constitution would be useless. The truth is, there is just too much god-sanctioned hatefulness in the bible to make it fit for basing the laws of a free nation upon…

  8. Ex-Pat makes a valid point!

    It does seem that Xpress affords Newbie-come-lately hatemongers such as The Carolina Stompers coverage of their agenda and wide lattitude to bash their self-chosen opponents, to the exclusion of Peaceiks’ actual accomplishments.

  9. Dionysis

    Aw, come on now. That this group of goofballs gets coverage is sort of like the morbid allure of slowing down to see the aftermath of a car wreck. It’s repulsive, yet somehow strangely interesting. Look at the ‘Carolina Gompers’ (er, I mean ‘Stompers’) as something like this. You wouldn’t want to be involved in anything like it, but you are still drawn to look.

  10. Ken Hanke

    Not only that, but they inadvertently present a strong argument against the conservative movement.

  11. Agreed regarding the inherent shock value of features such as the Stompers’ Dionysis, yet Ex-Pat and I lament that, contrary to Xpress’ avowed neutrality, they grant minimal coverage to those who espouse views far different from such hatemongers.

  12. Perhaps Xpress does present a strong argument against the conservative movement, Hanke (in the “give ’em enough rope” stance cited a comment or two above).

    Yet couldn’t this be done with far more efficiency and eloquency via the words of such ilk’s “opponents”, say, in Point/Counterpoint fashion?

    I mean, not for nothing, but Xpress never even phoned us for comment, yet felt free to use our name in the original bashing article.

    That doesn’t seem neutral, nor balanced.

  13. Jon Elliston

    Lady Passion,

    Thanks for the feedback, but I don’t think it’s accurate to say that Xpress “grant[s] minimal coverage to those who espouse views far different from such hatemongers.” In fact we try to offer extensive coverage of every facet of our community that we can; that’s certainly our objective.

    And our article quoted critics of the Stompers quite extensively — there was quite a bit of back and forth in the article.

    And to others who blanch at seeing coverage of the Stompers because they don’t like the group’s stances or politics, I’d suggest that a) covering a group is not an endorsement, it’s news coverage; b) it won’t hurt any of us to learn about the worldview of people who we might disagree with. In fact, if we’re going to have real dialogue and progress in our community, learning about folks we don’t see eye to eye with is part of the foundation of that change.

    Best regards,

    Jon Elliston
    Managing Editor

  14. Chad Nesbitt

    Johny said
    <>“5. Is the way you have sex a civil right?”
    Hey Chad, is it any of your business?<>

    No, it’s not my business and that’s the point.

    But the openly gay division of the Democrat Party wants to make it everybody’s business according to their platform.

    Who cares if someone is more feminine or butch than other people.
    What you do in the privacy of your bedroom is your business. Swing from a chandelier for all we care. Just don’t push your sexuality on our children. The Democrat Party and pro gay, lesbian, and transgender groups like Faith In America and Equality NC are pushing the way people have sex is a civil right.
    They are wrong. It is not a civil right.
    It is a choice.

    Having group sex and walking around naked (in front of children) at a street fair such as
    Folsom Street is not a civil right.

    It is not a civil right for a “male” school teacher to show up at school in drag. Democrats Senator Martin Nesbitt and House Rep Susan Fisher are pushing bills so that this very thing can happen and there is nothing the parents or school staff can do about it. If people said anything about it they could be arrested for hate speech.

    Liberals call us outraged parents homophobes or bigots because we are concerned about what our kids see and hear. They call parents names that speak out against gay organizations to try to intimidate people. Well it works on some, but it doesn’t work on us. We can take the heat!
    Can the Democrats take the fire?

    Chad Nesbitt

  15. Jason, ignoring hatemongers only emboldens them and wrongly convinces others that their opinions are shared by silent consent.

    John, Xpress had every right to print the Stompers article, and I’ve never implied otherwise.

    Just seems like a no-brainer to me that if someone bashes someone by name that the bashees be contacted for comment prior to printing it, which Xpress did not do.

  16. Chad Nesbitt

    Trey said
    <>Fictional books like the bible are fun and entertaining, but everybody knows that you can’t change water to wine or be nailed to a cross and come back to life. People who believe in that are no different from ANY OTHER CULT.<>

    If the Democrats agree, please bring your comment to the debate and ask it to us in the form of a question.
    Please o, Please o, Please!

    Chad Nesbitt

  17. Don Yelton

    I love how these supposedly progressive forward thinkers want to tell the xpress how to print stories and what they should and should not say.

    That just show their ignorance. What about freedom of speech do you not understand. It is very obvious that the only freedom you want is what you say.

  18. Ken Hanke

    I love the way certain conservative elements are just fine with closeted homosexuality (perhaps because the Republican party and televangelists seem to have so much of it), but the idea that anyone should be openly gay is terrifying to them — with or without the excuse of it being all about the children.

    Some years ago when I lived in Florida we had a state representative who refused to vote for the state’s hate crimes bill. His rationale for this was that he’d likely be one of the first people arrested under it, because if he ever encountered a same sex couple display affection where his little girls could see it, he would take a baseball bat to the offending couple. So here we have a man with a worldview that says that two men (or women) kissing is something his children should never see, but it’d be okay for them to see him bludgeoning the offenders with a baseball bat. That seems pretty darn sick to me.

  19. Nam Vet

    Although I think Chad inadvertently hurts his conservative cause by engaging in pugnacious rants, he also inadvertently exposes the hatred many leftwingers have for conservatives. Those who call him a hatemonger need to examine themselves as well.

    And Jon Elliston is right. He offers a platform for everyone. I applaud him for having the best free weekly I’ve ever seen. Better than the ones in Los Angeles, San Francisco and Phoenix, which are essentially way extreme, strident far far leftwing whine rags. Thanks for having a civil newspaper Jon.

  20. Gordon Smith

    The Chad asks to debate the Democratic Party. This infers that he represents the official Republican Party. In fact, he represents no one but Chad Nesbitt and a few bigoted malcontents who love the idea of lording their kultur war over folks who disagree with them.

    Chad was soundly rejected in his attempt to lead Buncombe Republicans. He worked very hard to forcibly eject the elected head of that body, and now he’s grasping at theocratic straws to further his political ambitions.

    By dodging the Wiccans after attacking them is indicative of, as Tim Peck points out, declaring victory where none exists and changing the subject. I think that Lady Passion’s challenge to the Stompers shows a remarkable intestinal fortitude. The Chad’s ducking pulls the veil off of his false bravado. Cowardice wrapped in piety is hardly worth the attention it’s given.

  21. Neither Chad nor Don Yelton will succeed in twisting our challenge into one against area Democrats, nor in diverting the subject to suit their prejudices (sexuality, liberalism, gays, etc.).

    The fact is they bashed us, Xpress afforded us no counter-comment in the same article, we clearly challenged Stompers founders to a fair public debate about issues of perennial interest and importance, and they cowered.

    They lecture others on what they consider civility, yet refuse to dialogue in a civil manner with others. As such, they are completely out of touch with what most rational folks believe is goodly behavior.

    Stompers claim to believe in Biblical values. Jesus’ disciples debated their contemporary Pagan counterparts — so why won’t the Stompers debate theirs?

    We all know why: Fear of losing the debate in public.

  22. travelah

    Lady, it seems your beef is with the MountainX for not providing space for your own commentary. I am still unsure what thesis you are going to defend in a debate with a reactionary group that represents neither the Republican Party or any particular Christian dogma.

  23. This is strange. Xpress has 2 different web pages for this; one with 2007 in the http:// address, and another with 2008 in the http:// address…

    See my previous comments posted in

    But here’s my reply to travelah on this thread:

    Debate should not be predicated on whether one or even both groups are “reactionary”, but rather, on discussing the merits of opposite viewpoints.

    The purpose of our debate is not to change the Stompers’ opinions, but to afford attendees the opportunity to consider both sides of important questions.

    Simple, really, and no attempt by others to impune our intent or to twist our challenge for their own ends, will change this.

  24. oldtimedonkey


    I don’t think Nesbitt represents the Republican Party. I think Nesbitt represents the silent majority of normality.

    Chad has a lot of energy and talent.
    Republicans don’t know what that is.

    Nesbitt used to be a Democrat.
    When Chad was with us, he was very vocal against the “progressives” that are trying to crucify him on these forums. We should have listened to Chad. He was right.

    Chad gets his passion from his mother. I think some of you are mad at him because he politics with that passion and from the looks of it he has been winning.

  25. Rob Close

    i have noticed one bias in MX articles, and lady passion may have a good point here. sometimes the MX will contact people who are mentioned or attacked in some articles, and sometimes they don’t. some consistency in this would be better journalism.

  26. oldtimedonkey —
    If Chad’s got talent, why did he steal our idea and ask the Dems to debate him?

    The only one with passion here is me, hence my name ;-)

    I find it ironic whenever someoe champions “inevitable progress” then detests “progressives” and their *truly* Earth-conservationist ideas ;-)

    You can’t win if you don’t play, oldtimedonkey, and Chad refuses to debate.

  27. Nancy Nesbitt


    I am so glad that you see where Chad gets his good qualities from however crudely you chose to express it. He is a man of great honor, loyalty, integrity, and passion. He values family, friends and truth above all else. He learned this from his mother and his grandparents. Next time she and I are in Ingles I’ll introduce you.

    I feel pity for you that you lack those qualities that you obviously are envious of otherwise you wouldn’t constantly sit around on a computer photo-shopping pictures of Chad, and obsessing about him on A C-T Topix forum, Mt Xpress, Screwy Gordon’s blog, your own webpage, etc… to the point it has become comical. Don’t get me wrong, I do understand you have a desire to get attention and a need for everyone to think you are without a doubt smarter than any of us poor common folk who can’t spell a lick.

    Anyway, If there is a definition of what it means to be a man- Chad is it. I’m married to the hardest working man in Buncombe county. If you ever really wish to learn how to be a real man try to keep up with him for one week: go clean some sewers, teach folks how to NOT impact the environment in a negative way, How to use water efficiently and how to keep lakes and rivers free of contamination, then go clean up blood off a sidewalk after a man’s had his throat sliced open, do this all day in the cold or heat, get up in the middle of the night and pick up a driver who’s truck has broken down, put a new motor in the truck the next day, then when a friend calls and needs help with winter firewood, he carves out of thin air time to make it happen. He works 90 hours or more a week and still finds time to go to church, spend time with his family, work in the community, support our local school and in his spare time (ha ha ha ) he has to deal with snarks whose main complaint is his spelling, and that he’s heaven forbid… a Christian.

  28. Dionysis

    ” What about freedom of speech do you not understand”

    Freedom of speech does not guarantee an audience, only the right to speak or print one’s opinions.

    Coming soon, folks, we’ll spotlight other fringe loony groups. In March, we’ll focus on the John Birch Society asking the timely question “Was Joseph McCarthy right after all?”. Then, in May, the KKK will issue a challenge: “Racial eugenics-has its time finally come?” Stay tuned.

  29. Nam Vet

    And no doubt as the November election comes close, we will have the fringe group MoveOn.Org once again set up a storefront in downtown Asheville. I’d love to see Lady Passion and her witches circle that building and hold a wickan spell for peace and the ethical treatment of trees and rocks. :)

  30. Dionysis

    “looks of it he has been winning.”

    Well, hold off on the ceremony. There are many contenders for Dunce of the Year.

  31. Nam Vet — Many Witches support MoveOn.Org as being folks with goodly progressive political ideas, so there’d be no reason for us to picket-type spell around their headquarters.

    And it’s Wiccan, not wickan, as it is Pagan, not Pegan (as the Stompers misspelled it) ;-)

  32. Nam Vet

    No Lady Passion I know you are a MoveOn.Org goodly progressive. You would be putting a GOOD spell on their headquarters. :) Goddess knows we need higher taxes and more socialism in our lives!

  33. “I feel pity for you that you lack those qualities that you obviously are envious of otherwise you wouldn’t constantly sit around on a computer photo-shopping pictures of Chad, and obsessing about him on A C-T Topix forum, Mt Xpress, Screwy Gordon’s blog, your own webpage, etc…”

    Yes, it’s called eternal vigilance.

    And you Stompuz have this unseemly habit of including personal information in your rebuttals and complaints; as though there was some kind of implied threat.

    You are in a corner and now you snarl. Stay there. Better yet, get thee behind.

  34. Nancy Nesbitt


    Obsession by any other name…”eternal vigilance”… is still the same.
    You are speaking about another man’s genitalia whom you obsess over.

    You got called on it – get over yourself.

  35. May Hemm

    “Was Joseph McCarthy right after all?”
    That was a cheap shot while you thought I wasn’t looking, wasn’t it, Dion?

    Actually, McCarthy was right. Neo-cons are those people. That is to say they are Marxist/Communists by most definitions.

  36. Wow, Nam Vet — I never wrote *I* support MoveOn, only that many Witches do ;-)

    Socialism means “society-focused”. If you’re against that, then you cannot claim to reflect societies wishes.

    But you digress off-topic, which is Chad’s refusal to discuss this or any issue he takes umbrage with us about…

  37. Nancy Nesbitt —

    While it should go without me having to point out to you that people of *many faiths* work hard and help people in myriad ways (see our Web site at:, for example), it is sadly typical that Christians such as yourself wrongly assume they have some kind of “God-lock” on charitable works ;-)

    Since you and Chad opine online, do so by debating your beliefs in public with us!

  38. possum

    Tim, cannot earn his own way in this society. Why does he feel he has the right to critize others. He mentions personal attacks yet that is what he and his little groupies do. I have lived here many years, like maybe 60 and people like this are still coming out of the woodwork. If any of you don’like Chad and his family don’t get so wrapped up in what say. I personally like them and will support their rights. Now attack me and make me cry.

  39. Nam Vet

    Lady Passion, you are naive about the meaning of “socialism”. Here is a much more exact definition, gleaned from Wikipedia online.

    “The modern socialist movement largely originated in the late-19th century working class movement. In this period, the term socialism was first used in connection with European social critics who criticized capitalism and private property. For Karl Marx, who helped establish and define the modern socialist movement, socialism would be the socioeconomic system that arises after the proletarian revolution, in which the means of production are owned collectively. This society would then progress into communism.”

    You have dodged your MoveOn.Org involvement/interest in much the same way you accuse the Stompers of. :)

  40. Hopefully

    I just visited the stomper site, whoa, let’s get out the brown shirts. Hope we don’t have a night of the longknives here in Asheville!

  41. Buncombe County theocratic bigots are a real and present danger. The longer the knives the better.

    We all may soon have to take out restraining orders against the Stompuz.

    Thanks to Mountain Xpress for exposing this menace.

  42. I should have been paying attention to this little brouhaha!
    When the Conservative Revolution gets fully underway, you lefties will go absolutely nuts!!!

    You think the Carolina Stompers are alone? They are not, and that is what scares you, and necessitates an overwhelming response from the “progressives” and those who are “progresitarians” (that would be you, Tim).

    They (The Stompers) represent the still slumbering majority of America, and we are about the business of awakening that majority. You realize that you will lose once people are awakened. You have previously enjoyed a near-monopoly in the local media for the past few years…that is about to change.

    Stay Tuned for further developments.

  43. DemocratNC

    I believe those derogatory statements made in this editorial are ridiculous. Who cares what John Q publics beliefs are, and who cares who you are having sex with. Isn’t America the land where our ancestors Fled from political and religious persecution. It was all for a chance to be free. If the republicans of this country would stop worrying about what the left wingers are up to and who they worship and love I think more good would come for all of us.

  44. Dionysis

    ““Was Joseph McCarthy right after all?”
    That was a cheap shot while you thought I wasn’t looking, wasn’t it, Dion?”

    Huh? That retort was not aimed at you. Why in the world would you believe it was? The Stompers article was not, I believe, about you.

  45. Nam Vet

    DemocratNC, the Stompers do not represent the republican party. Or the democrat party either. The trouble here is not whether one party or the other worries too much. It is the hatred many on each side have for the other side, witnessed here in some of these posts. This is what is tearing this country apart. I hope we have a president this time who will unite us, democrat, republican, independent, Green, libertarian, and whatever. And I hope we the citizens willmend fences and proceed together as one nation.

  46. Chad Nesbitt

    DemocratNC said – “Who cares what John Q publics beliefs are, and who cares who you are having sex with.”

    Reply – That’s the problem with you liberals. You don’t care or want to hear what the other side say’s. Sex? We don’t care who you have sex with. But don’t push your sexual lifestyle on our children.

    DemocratNC said – “Isn’t America the land where our ancestors Fled from political and religious persecution.”

    Reply – Yes absolutely! But the liberals continue to persecute Christians. They wage war on us because they know American laws and tradition are based on Christian morality. To defeat morality is to know that the leftist lifestyle will be accepted.

    DemocratNC said – “If the republicans of this country would stop worrying about what the left wingers are up to and who they worship and love I think more good would come for all of us.”

    Reply – Well, if the Democrats would quit waging a culture war and pushing their lifestyle on the majority of America, spend less, lower taxes, and defend the United States we would stop worrying. I think that would be good for us all.

    Yes this debate is definitely needed.
    But not with a cult. Get serious.

    It needs to be with the party that supports destroying America. The Democrat Party.

    This is why we have challenged the local Democrat Party since they represent liberal Americans, atheists, cults, lying to minorities, openly sexual lifestyle, weak defense of America, abortion, illegal aliens, more lies and propaganda. Just read their plat form.

    Carolina Stompers is not
    the local Republican Party.
    But Carolina Stompers represents conservative Americans, defends Christianity,
    defends minorities, defends our children from sexual beliefs and predators, defends our soldiers and their families and supports the war 100%, supports the youth, wants lower taxes and less spending, pro life, pro environment, pro constitution, freedom of speech, truth,
    and the American way!

    Help make this debate happen!

    Chad Nesbitt

  47. May Hemm

    So, you want to ‘debate the democratic party’…

    I visited your website and I would respectfully suggest that you make the sources for your opinions known. Perhaps list some references from which you base your political views – besides the ad for Fox News. Also, I’d like to know – what is the aim of your group, besides the defeat of liberals? Because it’s not obvious. What would ‘victory’ look like to you? Unless you begin to step beyond Fox News rhetoric and into your own voice, you will never have any credibility. And you need credibility in order to create the change you want. So what do you want?

    And I ask those things, because honestly, I believe it will be hard for you to answer. All I see is fear in everything you say.

    Some things I’d like to speak to:

    1st point: You do not represent conservatism. You represent neo-conservatism. The two are as different as two things can be.

    Conservatives do not request that the Federal government restrict the rights/soveriegnty of any group, nor no we support special rights for any group. True Conservatives oppose all but defensive acts of war – certainly not pre-emptive war. And never war for profit. Conservatives are in favor of free unregulated trade, not the heavily-regulated trade neo-cons, as well as socialists favor. Conservatives love freedom – and the Constitution – and understand that the Constitution (Bill of Rights) guarantees their right of free speech (neo-cons wish to limit freedoms.)

    If it would appear to many – that neocons are actually Marxists (extremely left wing), that would be correct. Heavily-regulated and controlled trade, large government, corporate welfare… limitations on freedom, and an illegal tax which is not apportioned (which is what we’ve got) is actually Marxism. And if we add mandatory health care ala Ms. Clinton and a National ID card (with the rfid chip) to the mix, we’ll actually have pure Marxism – no argument.

    2nd point: How would one, under the Constitution – ‘defend Christianity’? and against what? Might it be the other way? That we might need to protect the Constitution from Christianity – or any other group that wants to infringe on the sovereignty of our people…? Nowhere in the Constitution does it restrict your religious freedom. Yet your rhetoric (and the positions of Neocons in power) seek to limit rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

    3rd point:
    Defending children from sexual predators. Wow. There’s a can of worms if ever there was one. If this is really a concern of yours, please don’t let your children associate with members of the republican party. All kidding aside – because it’s serious. Neo’s are about power, and use the ‘family values’ position to get it. Just like taking a vow of chastity might make you obsess about sex all the time, being a neo-con seems to make men obsess about gay sex (with young boys) all the time. Maybe a pattern? You think that -just perhaps- by surrounding something natural (sex) with a greasy fog of taboo and fear – makes a human obsess about the ‘forbidden’? The conservative approach is to leave people alone unless they hurt someone. No one’s ‘being gay’ in public makes any one else gay. I have many gay friends – and guess what – I’m not gay.

    I mainly just want to see what you have to say – if you could drop the neo-con brainwashing for just a few minutes and respond in your own voice, and describe what you want. I’m doubtful.

  48. Perhaps Democrats and Republicans are destroying America and the world? We need fewer parties and more humanity.

    “Americans have been taught their nation is civilized and humane. But, too often, U.S. actions have been uncivilized and inhumane.” – Howard Zinn

  49. Chad and Nancy refused our debate challenge, so after our having exposed their gutlessness, we’re in the phase of crowing about having won the word duel at this point ;-)

    No amount of their trying to save face by challenging the Dems to debate instead will save their rep now.

    They made a huge PR mistake by refusing our debate. They could’ve rallied their troops, increased their ranks and gotten more of the publicity they clearly crave if they’d agreed to it, but they blew the opportunity.

    So now they’re scrambling to salvage a situation that can’t be spun.

    No matter what they do now, no one will ever forget that they can dish it out, but can’t take it themselves.

  50. Jon Elliston

    OK, everybody out of the pool for a minute.

    Here’s hoping posters on this thread will dial down the vitriol and even veiled mentions of violence that are rearing their ugly heads.

    In short, name-calling and intimations that there should be a bloodletting akin to the night of long knives — however metaphorically they might have been intended — are not welcome here. Posters who continue in that vein will have their comments removed from the site.

    Thanks for keeping the discussion civil and ongoing,

    Jon Elliston
    Mountain Xpress

  51. The avoidance exhibited by the Carolina Stompers to the original debate challenge is breathtaking. (Their reactionary retorts amply sprinkled with personal attacks, ‘ad hominem’ and veiled threats.)

    My goodness, it’s as though they had been challenged to a spelling bee.

  52. I am glad to see you finally come clear with the Marxist term “reactionary”, Tim. I had been told time and again that you had gone over to the dark side, and I did not believe. Now I do.

    I will not allow them to be sidetracked off their message, so I will continue to advise to “stay out of the pool”
    And as far as veiled threats…Tim said:
    “Buncombe County theocratic bigots are a real and present danger. The longer the knives the better.

    We all may soon have to take out restraining orders against the Stompuz. ”

    Ummm, okay. Lefties are always most threatened by the conservative message getting out…reminding me of the reaction of the hominids in “2001: A Space Odyssey,” when they discover the monolith outside their cave one morning.

    Perhaps you guys just aren’t ready…

  53. Don Yelton

    Well to put it bluntly thunder pig the only thing that a lot people have on this post is just the appearance of the words…ie spelling. That is because the thoughts behind the process is so flawed that they have to have correct spelling and so forth to hide the lack of substance.

    They preach liberty and want control. They preach freedom of expression and then want to deny others the right to express.

    Actually what happens in these forums is the differences get exposed and the only thing left is empty threats and then the threats come into action…It is a pattern that has repeated itself from the time of Christ walking the earth, to Hitler, and on and on.

    We are a republic and not a democracy but our leaders are elected by popular vote in reality therefore the balance of power is being destroyed by self interest in one’s own personal agenda regardless of how it is wrapped.

    Now that brings us to the point that they versus us is a historical perspective that will destroy us or they, always has and always will. When will those that profess to know the way, Lady Passion, Tim Peck ever see that they are wanting to dominate and control which is exactly what they are accusing the Stompers of…

    I look back and I see comments like do what you want just don’t push it on me… I think we all need to think about that statement because it is the essence of the arguement. We need to be drawing that line and throwing around threats like “long knives” is not contributing to the debate because that is leading to where the most committed will be the winner. And in that commitment they will expose their faulty arguement.

    The older the person the more committed. The real facts are that the average american that pays his taxes, goes to some organized religous service periodically, may go to a race, and attends some ball games is getting tired of being told he is stupid and has no rights while others dance around tree, want trees to stay forever in their spot and demand more rights.

    The battle lines are being drawn and decisions will be made and some have already made their decision and will not change their mind.

    You are seeing it happen here.

  54. ashevegasjoe

    Let me start by saying I’m a registered independent, so the Democratic Party will probably not pick me to debate the Stompers. However, it is of no consequence, as there is little to debate. As for Mr. Nesbitt’s first point, the purpose of “the war on terror”, is to grab and occupy an antiquated, fossil fuel. One that has cost many lives, much environmental degradation, as well as the growing disdain of the U.S. worldwide. It has stretched our military and our economy, so I would say we are not safer because of the Republican lead strategy. Also, we were attacked on G.W.’s watch, have not caught the people who have done it, and allowed the Taliban to regain footholds in Afghanistan, while being distracted in Iraq.

    Was this country founded on Christianity? This country was founded on beliefs put forth by Christian men, that have their root in the political theory of Thomas Paine, Hebrew Law, Greek and Roman thought, Islamic Law, etc. Essentially , our founders were well read men who studied worldly, educated men who were standing on the shoulders of giants. The idea that this is Christian is ridiculous. It is common sense (no pun intended), and it is the contract that people must agree to to live in a civilized society. Thou shalt not murder? Duh. Christian Law is a statement of the obvious to conscious people, and a re-statement of laws before Christianity, i.e. Hebrew, Greek, Roman.

    As for who puts more money in your pocket, just look at what the last eight years of “Conservatism” has done for the economy. What good is lowering taxes while the dollar plummets and inflation sores? People cannot afford heat in the winter. Un-employment is down, but people can’t support families with low-paying jobs and high cost of living. In short, Conservatism has been responsible for the death of the middle-class, and the return of the robber-baron state.

    The future of Buncombe County? Creating jobs, protecting the environment, and health-care sounds like the platform of the Democratic Party. Republicans are notorious for putting the needs of developers ahead of the environment, and the jobs they have created are low-paying and with little or no benefits. As for lowering taxes, this is the first time in our history we have waged a war and not raised taxes. On the local level, you can thank your increased property taxes on the influx of wealthy out-of-towners, who are predominately, you guessed it: Republican.

    Is the way you have sex a civil right? No, should the government regulate how people have sex and how they wish to name their relationship? As a conservative, in favor of small government, I’m sure Chad would agree: no. Sex isn’t a right, it’s a choice, just like marriage.

    As for who is the champion of minorities in America, just look at the numbers. The majority of minorities, by far, are registered Independent and Democratic. I’m sure Chad would say this is because they have been duped by Liberals who have enabled them with the welfare state. This, of course shows his true bigotry, as not everyone on welfare is a minority. Also, it implies that the poor, uneducated minorities, are not capable of discerning the truth in the complex arena of politics, unlike Chad (who has blogged that people think of him as a religious “zellick”?). Minorities vote Democratic because they see the Party as a leader in civil rights for minorities and women. While Republicans strip our rights with laws like the “PATRIOT Act”, and laws that restrict women’s rights. They have also tried relentlessly to disenfranchise minorities with plans like voter I.D.’s (which would primarily impact people without state issued I.D.’s). This is obviously a hidden tax on voting, and is blatantly unconstitutional.

    In short, I see very little to debate with the Stompers. I would like to thank Mr. Nesbitt, the spell and grammar check on his computer, and the editorial staff for working tirelessly to correct his letter, that I’m sure was riddled with incoherent rants. It is, after all, correctly written as the “Democratic” Party.

  55. Stompers all — irrationally and ineffectively pontificate all you want in your all-over-the-road fashion designed to bury your refusal to debate us.

    But the indisputable fact is that Coven Oldenwilde pushed back against your bigoted bullying, and you caved for all the town to see.

    Wrong, Thunderpig and Don Yelton.

    Thunderpig: Coven Oldenwilde gave the Stompers EVERY opportunity to get their conservative message out, but they cowardly refused to debate us.

    “Lefties” should not remind you of hominids — only Stompers co-founder Chad Nesbitt’s pose and prose has been widely labeled so.

    Don: Witches don’t seek to control or dominate as Xtians do, but rather to co-exist.

    Fling accusations all you want, but be accurate when do: We have never accused the Stompers of trying to control anything.Indeed, we’d consider that laughable, as they can’t control their spelling, their emotions, or their spew as is ;-)

    Don’t censor Light&Hope;’s words or patronize her by dictatng what YOU claim should be debated — chastize YOURSELVES for refusing to debate us ;-)

    “Committment” does not equate with old age. We’re in our mid to late 40s, yet no Ashevillan questions Oldenwilde’s committment ;-)

    Witches don’t demand “more rights” — we insist on equal rights accorded us by law, and duly get them ;-)

  56. May Hemm

    I invite everyone to take a moment – and re-examine your positions regarding the same old tired ‘us vs. them’ drivel. Start by cleaning you own house. If you support the war in Iraq, you are not a conservative. If you are in favor of adopting Christianity as the national religion – you are not a conservative. If you support Homeland Security, and the attack on constitutional liberty you ARE NOT a conservative. If you support federally mandated health insurance you are not a conservative. Stop using the word. If you like to think of yourself as a conservative, and like to reference Reagan as an example, you’re wrong. He was a Neo-con (actually liberal) We have not had a conservative president since Taft. That’s when this nonsense began. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. There are many. Join us in the radical middle.
    A word or two about the left. The leftist movement is simply a cultural/political backlash against the NEOCON insurgence. Yes, I call it an insurgence. It is an unnatural party. Neocons have usurped the word ‘conservative’ to advance the agenda of Monopoly (our monetary system, the attack on liberty, nation-building… and they do it by lying to the gullible about things like family values. They don’t have family values, nor do they believe in them.)
    Most folks on the left recognize the lack of humanity and accountability inherent in the Neocon movement. Yet, they still resist the idea of limited government. Every government-funded program proposed by congress is paid for by ‘borrowing’ from the FED (a private bank cartel) WITH INTEREST. We are about 10 Trillion dollars in debt, because of this. This means that if you were to take every acre of land in the US and value it on the current market – and gave it to these bankers to pay what we owe them – we’d need THREE US’s. Not to mention that our dollar is totally worthless because of all the stupid borrowing from this private bank which creates money out of thin air. Our coins are worth more melted down because of this stupidity. And we have candidates who want to build ‘green infrastructure’… and other programs. How are they going to pay for it? How are we going to pay for the Neocon war machine? We are leaving a real sh-thole situation for our children, because we are too stupid to wake up from this illusion. It is probably too late to even fix it, but stop being so stupid – all of you. Stop saying ‘democrat and republican’ and blaming things on liberals vs. conservatives. It’s totally ignorant. Wake the F-ck up.

  57. Rash, unwise act, Thunderpig.

    You and the Stompers may be legally liable for posting that video:

    You either plagerized the opening sequence of 2001: A Space Odyssey — thereby possibly violating Intellectual Property Rights law — or possibly violated copyright law if you posted actual snippets from the movie without permission from the production or distribution company.

    If you’re a Stompers member and they supported you uploading this, the entire group could conceivably be sued.

  58. They did not know, and I am protected under fair use rules.

    Thank You for proving my point on intolerance, and shutting down speech you (and lefties) that do not match your political views. Just as Jerry Meek attempted to use the force of government to shut down the Stompers, you would likewise…typical.

    Again…you lefties seem to have a real problem with reading comprehension. Read the notice at the end of the video…that should have answered the question for you.

    Keep screeching and stamping your feet, and trying to get someone bigger than you (the gov’t) to do what you cannot.

    You have been properly satirized, and still don’t get it!

    I haven’t laughed this hard in quite a while.

  59. Chad Nesbitt


    That’s absolutely hilarious. Thank you for the video and your fighting spirit!

    These apes act just like the liberals that hate morality, freedom of speech (except their own),
    low taxes, and anybody that steps in their way of harming the future of America.

    They just can’t grasp that some unknown force called “common sense conservative” is dishing it back at them with action and results.

    With your efforts and others, the
    Carolina Stompers are gaining in numbers everyday.
    I am very happy to say that quite a few conservative Democrats have joined as well. They to have had enough of crazy’s, atheists, liars, corruption, etc. trying to change traditional American values and steal our money with outrageous taxes. Be it Democrats or RINOs.

    What we have been doing has been working. Common sense families have seen our marketing and they like it. The fighting spirit we and others have drives conservatives to get out and get active.

    I’m going to show your video at our next meeting. It is exactly what’s going on. I wonder which one of those monkeys carries the long knives?
    Ha Ha Ha!

    Great Job!

    Chad Nesbitt

  60. Trey

    I love how not one representative from any reputable group will waste their time with this.

    I will give the stomperz one thing…. they are good at patting each other on the back.

  61. Ken Hanke

    First of all, I’m amazed that the Stompers — who pride themselves on their historical perspective — don’t appear to understand that this long knives thing is a reference to Hitler’s “Night of the Long Knives,” and not some kind of who has the bigger knife thing.

    Second, I’m not at all sure that ripping off two and a half minutes of 2001 and subtitling it and posting it as your own on YouTube comes under the heading of “fair use,” but that’s between ThunderPig and Warner Bros.

    Third, taken to its logical conclusion, the clip in question would seem to indicate that the knowledge imparted by the monolithic Stompers is how to kill each other with weapons.

  62. Hanke:

    You are a sometimes movie critic, right?

    The monolith improved the homind capability for abstract thought, the hominids then used that ability to make (or utilize discovered) tools.

    They used the tools to improve their chances of surviving the drought, and defend their access to a limited resource.

    I was equating the hominids with the ones who objected to the Carolina Stompers…perhaps you need some help with the abstract thought thing…

  63. Hopefully

    Are you inferring (with this video)that black people are just stupid apes if they are democrats?Is this thinly veiled racism thunderpig?

  64. May Hemm

    The phrase “Night of the Long Knives” in the German language predates the massacre itself, and it also refers generally to acts of vengeance. Its origin might be the “Night of the Long Knives”, a massacre of Vortigern’s men by Angle, Jute, and Saxon mercenaries in Arthurian myth. (From Wikipedia)

    As of yet, I have not identified which historical perspective they propose to be basing their agenda upon, if any. My perception is that they are simply products of the factory education model, and have looked no further into the reality of history than that which has been presented to them by revisionists who wish to control mass opinion. They allow themselves to be led by sentiment created by media (hollywood, fox news, etc.) instead of identifying fact in history. In other words, they’re morons.

  65. L&H;:

    Red Herring Alert! Red Herring Alert!

    The beings depicted in the film are not apes, they are hominids from millions of years after the apes and human trees diverged.

    The hominids depicted in the film are older than race…with that distinction coming in modern times. They would be common ancestors with everyone alive.

    Besides…I am well-versed in the tactics of Saul Alinskyites, and how to counter them.

    Note, everyone…at how the responses of Hanke and L&H;are designed with an attempt to inject fear into the discussion?

    In Hanke’s case…fear of lawsuits. In L&H;’s case, fear of being labeled a racist. The charge is designed to shut down useful discussion, and put me on the defensive. This is what I call a “teachable moment” and I never mentioned Democrats…just progressives, progressitarians, and pagans.
    Progressives can be Democrats, or parties to the left of that. Progressitarians are tending to be Republican if they have to be in order to vote for Ron Paul. Pagans may belong to any party.

    Try again, sweetie.

  66. Ken Hanke

    “They used the tools to improve their chances of surviving the drought, and defend their access to a limited resource.”

    In other words, as far as the section of the movie you…borrowed, it taught them better ways to kill each other.

    “Note, everyone…at how the responses of Hanke and L&H;are designed with an attempt to inject fear into the discussion?”

    Hate to break it to you, but you’re the one announcing how this forced Stomperization is coming to get all us “Godless liberals.” Talk about fear tactics. It’s only amazing that you’ve not yet claimed, “We will bury you.”

  67. Hanke:

    “…better ways to kill each other…”

    I say better ways to promote the survival of the species. So, you’d prefer to return to the savannahs? No thanks, I prefer abstract thought and the tech that resulted from it.

    You really need to read the book. Arthur C. Clarke wrote it, and the story it was based upon, “The Sentinel” and both are well-worth reading.

    You must have me confused with someone else on this, or another, thread as far as the godless liberals comment goes.

    There must be something in the water in Asheville that makes progressives nuttier than normal…

  68. Matt Howard

    Politics: My favorite contact sport.

    Personally, and maybe Im on the fringe here, but I believe very strongly in a civilized dialogue. A concept thats been in a steady downward spiral it seems. The only reason Im a registered democrat is because you need either a D or an R next to your name to work at the polls on election day, and the language and behavior of Republicans as of late has alienated me.

    Lets look back:
    Putting aside thousands of years of religious history and a questionable real estate deal on the part of the city, the event in question that started all this was Elane Lite attending a protest that was, as far as Im aware, organized by the local Wiccan community but ultimately environmentalist in it’s bent. Some people danced around a tree. Big effin deal. It’s not something that appeals to me, but it’s a free country. Elane Lite is not Wiccan, but she was a city council candidate at the time. And she’s a prominent local environmentalist. Does anybody make a big deal if a politician who was Lutheran attended a Baptist pancake breakfast trawling for votes? Not really. Her presence there was a variation of the same theme. The video spot in question was really an attack ad against her that used her attending a Wiccan event as the basis for the attack.

    Any discussion of theolgy aside, I think using religion as a basis for attack or ridicule is just plain wrong. I dont think the ad was well thought out. I think the stompers just got some footage they thought was juicy and ran with it.

    The law of unintended consequences: comedy and tragedy all rolled up into one.

    Ultimately I think this incident is going to politically organize more liberals than conservatives. I dont know all the details, but I do know there is infighting among the local Republicans. Meanwhile the local Wiccan community ( which I guarantee is larger than many of you think, because it’s not highly unified ) will probably have greater political passion and organization in 08′ than if the stompers had left well enough alone.

    And dancing around a tree isnt really that weird by Asheville standards.

  69. Hopefully

    My comment was to infer that the stomper website smelled a little like neonazi manure, and thunderpigs video post was Ala Willie Horton.

  70. Chad Nesbitt

    Matt Howard said

    “Meanwhile the local Wiccan community ( which I guarantee is larger than many of you think, because it’s not highly unified ) will probably have greater political passion and organization in 08’ than if the stompers had left well enough alone.”

    I hope you are right.
    They make our job a lot easier.

    Chad Nesbitt

  71. Actually, Trey, Oldenwilde is quite reputable ;-)


    Thanks for admitting that you used Warner Bros. material without permission. And thanks Chad for applauding it.

    Now you’re both possibly admittedly legally liable.

    Thunderpig’s video does not fall within the guidelines of the Fair Use Act, as nowhere does it say that it is a parody and in no way does it critique the original film.

    First Chad steals our smackdown idea, now Thunderpig steals moovie clips.

    How does it feel to have no originality?

  72. Actually, Chad, you’re full of bluff but no courage, as everyone knows now that you refused to dialogue like decent folk :-)

    We haven’t made anything easy for you.

    We’ve exposed your lack of “aggressive” Repub Xtian values for all to see.

  73. Ken Hanke

    “I say better ways to promote the survival of the species. So, you’d prefer to return to the savannahs?”

    And this is the only option? Regardless of what Messrs. Clarke and Kubrick ultimately state with their monolith, the scene you chose to appropriate is one that ends with the apes learning how to use weapons.

    “You must have me confused with someone else on this, or another, thread as far as the godless liberals comment goes.”

    You’d prefer “Godless progressives?” Really, you seem to be in support of the Stompers “movement,” which is pretty open about its religious agenda. So are you a Stomper or not? Do you not agree with their religious underpinnings? Just how many Stompers are there? What exactly do they do other than post YouTube videos, congratulate each other, claim to be speaking for some vaguely defined majority, and talk a lot?

  74. Hopefully

    Thunderpig, you must have read the latest neocon primer on how and what to think. Was it hammity or the skinny blond chick? Honestly, I’d never heard of Saul Alinsky till you mentioned him. So whats the big deal? A man who spent his life fighting social injustice is to be demonized? Try thinking on your own…

  75. Wow,

    Just reading through this blog, I find it interesting to see the posts from folks like the Nesbitt’s and Thunderpig so filled with ignorance and convolution. I guess such is the double-edged sword of the internet. Anyone can see his or her nonsensical beliefs up in print. And they don’t actually have to have any basis in logic or reality since they are posting from relative anonymity.

    My guess is these folks would never actually agree to a debate in public because they would be boo-ed out of town like the fringe group of they are.

    I sincerely challenge all you self-proclaimed “Stompers” to go to public places and engage in the kinds of debate you are employing here. It may do wonders for your sense of self to find out your theories only seem ingenious in the context of your own manufactured reality.

    And if you wish to bash me as a Democrat, Wikkan Hippy, please know I have no affiliation with these groups and primarily vote Republican.

    And with that said, I truly hope the MountainX does not give any more exposure and validation to these folks who I may personally categorize as Borderline Dangerous.

  76. Trey

    My apologies Lady Passion….. I should have said “politically affiliated” group(i.e. Dems or Repubs). That was not meant as a shot at you or your coven.

  77. Thanks for the clairification, Trey! I appreciate it.

    Hold the Stompers and their Thunderpig ilk accountable for their hypocrasy.

    They claim Biblical values (i.e. Thou shalt not steal), then steal our idea for a debate, then brag about using Warner Bros. movie clips without permission.

    Look up Fair Use and you’ll see Thunderpig’s video violates its allowances.

  78. oldtimedonkey

    Trey said <>My apologies Lady Passion….. I should have said “politically affiliated” group(i.e. Dems or Repubs). That was not meant as a shot at you or your coven.<>

    You better apologize Trey, she might wave her wand and turn you into a toad.

  79. oldtimedonkey

    Why are you young progressives calling the
    Carolina Stompers Nazis?
    It was the Stompers that exposed the NC Democrat Party is still honoring white supremacists.

    Are we Democrats not for civil rights?

  80. Matt H:

    And as I have pointed out elsewhere, and on my blog…Elaine handled that situation very badly and did not defuse it. She made it worse by legitimizing it, and acting as if she had something to hide. Politics, like lawyering, is mostly theater. Herbert Hyde taught me that lesson when I was a Democrat, and Jimmy Carter in the White House.

    As far as organizing…the proof will be in the pudding.

    You’re a hoot!

    Lady P:

    I obtained the video here

    and if you can’t see it as satire…then perhaps you need some help from the monolith with abstract thought as well the Hanke.

    Parody implies commentary on the original, satire is using the work to comment upon something else…in this case certain political groups in Asheville. I can think as well as spell. Nice try with the twisting of words, though.


    “How many Stompers are there?” Oh, I dunno, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? I have no idea.
    I have never paid the Stomper fee, although…after this video, Chad just might let me in for free!!!
    I have my own separate blog and newsite.
    While I haven’t compared notes with Chad on Religious Doctrine, I can say it is safe to say that we prolly agree on more things than we disagree on. Maybe he can bring his family and attend one of my Sunday School classes.

    “What are we doing?”
    Wouldn’t you like to know! In short, we are, I expect making the best use of our short time on this earth as we are capable, and the Holy Spirit provides guidance when we get too far off the path.

    The reaction of everyone to the Stompers has made me realize that my former path since 2005 on my blog ( ) was spent in futile “going along to get along” style. I have never before received so much email encouraging me to “give it to them” than I have since they came on the scene sometime last year.

    Now, keep it calm until I get in the office back tomorrow, okay?

  81. Trey

    Nahhhh…. she knows as well as I do that any magic done can come back to the practitioner threefold.

  82. Ahhh, Thunderpig — so it’s even worse! You ripped off someone else’s rip-off of 2001. How sad.

    While you were adding all the crawl labels at the bottom of your ripped-off video it would’ve behooved you to label it a satire as well.

    But you did not.

    As such, even one person who saw it did not think it parody could rightly complain about it to WB.

  83. Ken Hanke

    I can’t say I’m exactly surprised that there wasn’t even a single straight answer to any of my questions about the Stompers. So we don’t know how many there are and we don’t know what they do other than what we see here. It’s all just vague references and dancing around.

    As for the 2001 video being a satire, I’m not sure that using a film clip to “satirize” (if that it can be called) another group of people is exactly what is meant in the fair use concept. It clearly isn’t satirizing the film itself or critiquing it. But, as I say, that’s entirely between Mr. Pig and the WB legal department.

  84. Bobby Coggins wrote:

    > I am glad to see you finally come clear with
    > the Marxist term “reactionary”, Tim.

    I’m sorry, I guess I don’t know what you mean. The word “reactionary” is fairly common and does not require any ideological context. Sort of like the term “defensive.”

    > I had been told time and again that you had
    > gone over to the dark side,

    Why, of course you have, silly. That’s always the side that’s not the one you like.

    > “I will not allow them to be sidetracked off
    > their message, so I will continue to advise
    > to stay out of the pool”

    Shirley, you know me better than that (Yes, I called you Shirley). I always wear a pair of swimming trunks underneath my clothes and I have my own snorkel.

    P.S. Do the Stompuz have nothing but “funny” videos? You would think they could grace us with a well-constructed intellectual argument from time to time. I, and the Wiccans and whomever else, will be standing by. Please relieve the tension.

    I have to go now; ta.

  85. Tim,

    When you speak of the Meetup- you say “our” as though it implies ownership. Does that mean only libertarians, because that is not what was put out on the note I saw. I am quite certain it was called a “GOP delegate meeting”, hence some actual GOP showed up, what is the surprise there? Is it your position that the meeting was NOT sanctioned by the local executive GOP?

  86. Hopefully

    And not a brown shirt amongst them, actually it looks like a halloween party. I can almost smell the leaky butcracks!

  87. Lady P:

    Keep Screeching.


    So, are you calling me a liar? I only go to Asheville two or three times a year, and have met Tim Peck in person more times than I have Chad Nesbitt.
    I have considered both of them friends in the past, and would like to continue despite Tim “outing” my real name in a puerile, grasping at straws effort to lash out. Very unprofessional for a sometimes blogger, Tim.

    I’m also guessing you never heard of the attempt by the Guthrie folks to shut down JibJab’s use of “This Land” in one of their videos, and numerous other examples some helpful people…some of them even attorneys.

    Reactionary is a term used most often by the far-left and marxists when describing conservatives.
    And I am calling you a liar in public. I am not a Stomper, although I would accept an honorary or free membership. And as far as I know, Richard is not either. After all this…stamping and screaming, and threatening, I am sure to accept such membership.

    As far as what I am doing. Working. I do not feel the need to trumpet every accomplishment from my blog or on other public forums. Donations of office space, broadband internet access, and financial support are quickly helping me to realize my dream of doing this full-time…and I have plans to expand the reach of message beyond what anyone has attempted in this region before.


    Again, Tim has shown a disconnect with facts. The GOP Delegate Meeting was at 6pm, one hour previous to the regularly scheduled Ron Paul Meetup.

    Since they are on a public crusade to take-over the local GOP, perhaps, in his mind, he has already done so. I say that they have caused immeasurable damage to their movement, and future political hopes of anyone involved in the whole sordid affair.

    You, Chad, and the rest of The Carolina Stompers are doing a good thing, and you have my support, encouragement, and bandwidth.

  88. Ken Hanke

    “So, are you calling me a liar?”

    In what conceivable way? I asked direct questions and merely noted that by way of answer all I got were cutesy dodges (“how many angels can dance on the head of a pin,” “wouldn’t you like to know”), not answers of any kind. Is that calling you a liar?

    “despite Tim ‘outing’ my real name”

    So why do you prefer to hide behind a screen name in the first place?

  89. Hanke:
    You seem to suffer from a severe lack of intelligence, or critical thinking skills.

    You failed to note that I am not currently a Stomper, although I see that in my future. LOL!

    I am sending you a PM in reference to why I wish to have a screen name…and I am sure there are others on this board who would prefer their names private as well.

  90. Ken Hanke

    “You seem to suffer from a severe lack of intelligence, or critical thinking skills.”

    Another deft dodge. You’re pretty darn good at the red herrings you accuse others of.

  91. Thunderpig:

    I do not screech, and have not screeched to you or about you from day one.

    Indeed, this is why you despise me — because I’m devastatingly accurate in my quote, know the law, politics, and magic in equal measure, and my intelligent, thoughtful approach is appreciated by many. ;-)

    Thanks for associating this wisewoman with wise owls.

    But I’m sure many would agree with me in hoping that you, Don, Nancy, and Chad will one day stick to the subject — your refusal to debate us whom you bash — and issue reasons why that don’t focus on baiting libs or Dems.

    Why do you not want to debate US Witches?

  92. Lady Passion:
    Hmmm…must have been someone else you were screeching about a video and attempting to intimidate me in post after post after post. Getting kind of shrill. I am not about to declare “Ne Tirez Pas!”

    I do not despise you. I think you are terribly misguided, and given to much more projection than is statistically the norm, but hey, it’s a free country, right?

    You know about the law? Then perhaps you can comment on the SCOTUS ruling about fair use:

    “A fair-use analysis, according to the Court, involves four factors: “1) purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is commercially motivated or instead is for nonprofit educational purposes; 2) nature of the copyrighted work; 3) amount and substantiality of the portion used in the newly created work in relation to the copyrighted work; and 4) effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.”

    Screeching was not intended to associate the wise woman with owl, but the hominids dancing, stamping, and screeching around the monolith, which, upon further reflection could be replaced with a certain Magnolia Tree. LOL

    I have not been challenged to a debate. I believe you challenged The Carolina Stompers to a debate.

    Either way, You’ve got an overdeveloped sense of vengeance. It’s going to get you into trouble someday.

  93. ashevegasjoe

    Thunder pig, you claim to be able to “think and spell”, and then go on to write that you “prolly” agree. Is this sarcasm?

    Chad, you don’t need to end your ridiculous rants with “Chad Nesbitt”, as it appears beside the box. Someone must like to see their name in print.

    Joe Dawson

  94. How Thunderpig Violated the SCOTUS ruling regarding Fair Use:

    1). He did not write his purpose or intent regarding the character of his piece for the edification of viewers.

    He did not define his piece as satdire, and its too late now for him to squirm and claim he meant it so.

    Excerpts can be Fair Used to critique a work, but he did not critique the movie.

    2). To my knowledge he doesn’t run a nonprofit (as I do).

    3). He stole clips from another who stole them from a copyrighted work.

    He knew the clips came from 2001: A Space Oddysey, and were therefore copyright protected, but used the clips anyway.

    He did not get permission to use the clips from the creator(s) of the original work.

    4). He did not create any original work himself.

    5). He potentially damaged the market for and value of the movie by associating clips of it with his own twisted agenda.

  95. Lady Passion:

    1.) I’m guessing you do not know how to read the “About This Video” section on youtube. I have copied and pasted that here for your edification.
    About This Video

    Added: January 22, 2008
    This is a short video depicting response of progressives and progressitarians in Asheville, NC to the arrival of The Carolina Stompers.
    You can visit their website at
    to learn what they are up to, and how they will help Asheville, Buncombe County, and North Carolina.

    If that does not fit the definition of satire…

    I would also ask you to read the message at the end of the video. You can hit the pause button if it is scrolling too fast. I plan on fixing that for a full-resolution version I am working on.

    And…Therefore, even satire
    that does not target the original work can be considered fair use if, for
    instance, there is little possibility that consumers would view the satire as
    a commercial substitute (§ 107(4)), or if only a small amount of the
    copyrighted work was used (§ 107(3))

    2)I am a member, and co-founder (along with 28 other bloggers) of a non-profit, does that count? /s

    3)See #1 above.

    4) Did you react differently to the original clip from the one I altered? ’nuff said.

    5)Boy Howdy!!! I am surely a legend in your mind.

    Perhaps you are not cognizant with a legal definition of satire:

    The purpose of satire, on the other hand, is to draw attention to characteristics or actions – such as vice or folly –by using certain forms of expression – such as irony, sarcasm and ridicule.

    (Surely that would be the actions of progressives to the Stompers…and by extension, me…because I have dared defend them, surely, an act of folly)

    See everyone?

    Instead of ignoring the monolith (that would be the Stompers), she continues make the very same mistake that Elaine Lite, and her supporters made…and Jerry Meeks made, with real or imagined threats of legal repercussions. I have clearly told you how to defuse such a situation. Do not give it legitimacy. Neo-Stalinist Tactics of using the power of government to shut down Free Speech is a hallmark of the left.

    If I had known I would have gotten this type of reaction…I would have engaged in it a long time ago!

    Thank you, Lady Passion, you have provided me with many hours of entertainment in the last day and a half.

  96. Thunderpig’s About This Video was probably added after I raised legal concerns (note there’s no time of upload given).

    There’s no such word as “progressitarians”.

    Further, his About This Video words are not about, nor include, the word satire. Rather, they refer to his agenda, validating my belief that he violated the Fair Use act.

    Thunderpig arrogantly, wrongly assumed folks would view his minimal efforts as satire. However, he did not label his video as such, and therefore he’s potentially legally liable.

    Being a member of a blog is not the same as running a legally recognized nonprofit (as I do).

    I feel that any theft of another’s original work in violation of copyright laws is objectionable. Neither the person who first ripped off Warner Bros., nor Thunderpig’s subsequent rip-off of their work, is justifiable.

    He and the Stompers’ every claim should be seen as they are — desperate bluster signifying nothing.

  97. Nam Vet

    Children, children! Let us have some decorum here. Miss Passion, nix the self-aggrandizing “rightness” of your point of view. Tim, calm down and be nice. You do not give a good voice for Ron Paul by being so pugnacious. And myself, kiss Steve’s rear end or he will continue to nix my posts! So much for free speech here…it appears to be selective. :)

  98. Stomper Nancy Nesbitt wrote:
    “When you speak of the Meetup- you say “our” as though it implies ownership. Does that mean only libertarians, because that is not what was put out on the note I saw. I am quite certain it was called a “GOP delegate meeting”, hence some actual GOP showed up, what is the surprise there? Is it your position that the meeting was NOT sanctioned by the local executive GOP?”

    1. Wow.

    2. Aren’t we being coy today. You are well aware that the presence of the Carolina Chompers at a Ron Paul meeting was for the purpose of filming the proceedings in order to slice-n-dice the footage into something that would disparage Paul supporters and their cause. You know, much in the fashion of the juvenile “Elaine Lite/Pegan” movie you produced with fellow Chomper Richard Bernier.

    3. When did anyone claim to be surprised that the Chompers would butt in where they were not welcome?

    4. This meeting was part of a Ron Paul Meetup to discuss our possible involvement with the Republican party. Mark Delk was invited to help with certain technical questions. The C-Chompers arrived with cameras in hand and attempted to grill members with confrontational comments. I was happy to make them feel unwelcome. They were, and they truly made asses of themselves. At least that was the consensus after their ugly departure.

    5. Let’s end this thread were it began — and where, ultimately, it will remain:

  99. 1) It is always ok for you to question but dare anyone ask you a direct question and you have a hissy fit and go on a posting rampage.

    2) To spew so much blather; you know absolutely NOTHING about how I feel about Ron Paul or anything else.
    You are not a very good reader of people apparently and neither is Hanke (we at least agree on Cloverfield) :-)!

    I’m mad as fire at Fox News because they tried to usurp the public by disallowing Ron Paul and Duncan Hunter in the debates.

    Paul is not my favorite, Duncan Hunter was, but I still have the right to decide and not have CNNBC ABCBSFOX, or anyone else tell me which way to vote or allow them to shove a certain candidate down my throat. I sent e-mails to Fox along with everyone else to try to get them to allow both Paul and Hunter at least they did cave finally regarding Paul and with MY help!

    Your supposition that anyone was there at the GOP delegate meeting/libertarian meeting/Ron Paul Meet up to disparage another Republican is silly at best.

    3) It was your group’s notice that called it a GOP delegate meeting. If it says “GOP” any Republican is welcome, you should have read the rulebook Timothy :-)

    4) My bet is that you will not register as a Republican and that you have all those fine folks fooled don’t you? Like you have many here fooled. For now.

    5)Aww, You want to quit so soon? I thought we were just getting warmed up?

  100. Stomper Nancy Nesbitt wrote:
    “When you speak of the Meetup- you say “our” as though it implies ownership. Does that mean only libertarians, because that is not what was put out on the note I saw. I am quite certain it was called a “GOP delegate meeting”, hence some actual GOP showed up, what is the surprise there? Is it your position that the meeting was NOT sanctioned by the local executive GOP?”

    1. Wow.

    2. Aren’t we being coy today. You are well aware that the presence of the Carolina Chompers at a Ron Paul meeting was for the purpose of filming the proceedings in order to slice-n-dice the footage into something that would disparage Paul supporters and their cause. You know, much in the fashion of the juvenile “Elaine Lite/Pegan” movie you produced with fellow Chomper Richard Bernier.

    3. When did anyone claim to be surprised that the Chompers would butt in where they were not welcome?

    4. This meeting was part of a Ron Paul Meetup to discuss our possible involvement with the Republican party. Mark Delk was invited to help with certain technical questions. The C-Chompers arrived with cameras in hand and attempted to grill members with confrontational comments. I was happy to make them feel unwelcome. They were, and they truly made asses of themselves. At least that was the consensus after their ugly departure.

    5. Let’s end this thread were it began—and where, ultimately, it will remain:

    ashevegas joe:

    Yes, I can be a VERY sarcastic person at times, and where I am afraid it will be missed by my audience, I put /s at the end of it. /s

    Lady Passion:
    Oh, I have the time and date stamps of everything involved…and it will hold up in a court of law…unlike your cute attempts to aver that I am lying.
    as to progressitarians…I commented upon my coining of a new term with the original blog post here

    You can tell your grandchildren that you were there when the word entered the world.

    Surely (Shirley (thx Tim)), you are the product of the government (public) school system. I said 28 other bloggers and I formed a nonprofit. Nowhere in that statement did I say my blog was a nonprofit, although it is educational.
    My non-profit is called The Center for Vigilant Freedom, and I am the North Carolina Director. Which means I oversee all counterjihadist activity by our organization in NC.
    We organized and held the Counterjihad Summit in Brussels last year, and sent several of our bloggers, and non-bloggers to it to help get the European Resistance off the ground so they can be ready to resist the encroachment of Islam in the coming years. We provided assistance with the Freedom’s Watch Commercials that gave NBC such a headache last year. We are also creating networks of networks, inspiring people to form similar groups on the local level in this nation, and in other nations. We are assisting bloggers in Europe, Britain, and Canada who are being told they cannot report on the Islamification of their societies.

    If you wish to join, send me a private message, and we can start the vetting process today…

    I know you feel. That is what lefties are quite adept at, emoting…not logic.


    You, and your fellow libertarians, have declared your intention to take over the GOP on a local radio show back in August with a program called “Operation Republican Takeover” correct?
    I blogged about it at least twice, with links to the audio of the show:
    and here is the video that spawned a nationwide GOP Counter Intelligence Operation:

    Now, are you familiar with the term “Blowback”? /s
    You haven’t even felt the first effects of what I have planned, and what I have been told of other’s plans against the Paul Campaign.

    Perhaps you should follow the lead of Matt Mittan, who has very wisely ignored me, and mostly ignored The Carolina Stompers. Your “Operation Republican Takeover” exposure on that show has not exactly worked out to your favor, has it?

  101. oops…sorry about the top part of the message…I had copied it into wordpad so I didn’t have to stay on the Mtn X page while composing my answer.

  102. Don Yelton

    It is interesting enough to note that when you tell the people what you said at the meet-up Tim the moderator on even this link finds it offensive.

    That should let the world know exactly how you express yourself when your brain reaches it maximum–you go to four letter words…

    And who was it here on this post said smell the butt cracks…

  103. ashevegasjoe

    Thunderpig: your declaration to Mr. Hanke that you can “think and spell”, followed by the use of the word “prolly”, isn’t sarcasm it’s irony, I stand corrected. When you and Chad use words like “zellick” and “prolly”, I don’t think it’s a typing error as much as a lack of proper vocabulary. Certainly it is not sarcasm /s.

  104. ashevvegasjoe:

    Okay…I wasn’t an English major, and can’t argue the point with you, so I will concede the point.

    I have no idea what zellick means.

  105. Nam Vet:

    Actually it was Thunderpig’s ripping off others for his own agenda and posting his video link here that was self-aggrandizing ;-)

    Nancy Nesbitt:

    You wrote Tim that “1) It is always ok for you to question but dare anyone ask you a direct question and you have a hissy fit and go on a posting rampage.”

    Having denied our challenge to debate you & Chad and posting endless emotional rants on this thread, your words describing your own actions ;-)

    Our challenge to debate was and remains the original topic of contention, and not your or Stompers or their supporters’ attempts to derail the topic can change this.


    If you have the time and date stamps of when you posted the About This Video info, why did you not include them earlier when I challenged you about it?

    Why did you not include the details in your last post? Few desire to be directed to some obscure YouTube link for this info…

    Goodly that you acknowledged coining the term progressitarans, but it’d be helpful to others to let them know this at the outset instead of pointing to an obscure link later ;-)

    Sad, though, that you feel compelled to invent new words when you have such limited command of common terms…

    And actually, you DID ask me if your being a member of a nonprofit blog counted as “running a nonprofit [my original challenge] ;-)

    What’s your nonprofit’s EIN number, BTW?

    And what paperwork, if any, exists to prove your claim of being a nonprofit member or Director?

    The Stompers:

    Should realize that their guerilla-video tactics have been exposed, and that groups will likely begin not allowing them to film their meetings.

    Then all they’ll be left with is what they already do — rip off movie clips and make blurry videos that are nonsensical given their subject matter du jour.

    Bottom line, the Stompers’ and their supporters’ attempts to derail the subject avail them not.

    Their posts reveal their hothead nature:

    They talk of using ridicule, but don’t recognize it when others ridicule them ;-)

    They scream ‘Free Speech’, but when given the opportunity, refuse to debate.

    They name call when their opponents voice views different from their own.

    They accuse others of “screeching”, then post long, rambling rants.

    Ultimately, their message and actions are juvenile, convoluted, and ineffective.

  106. Don Yelton

    speaking of long rants and big words, who uses the most long rants and big words. If you review this post it is really plain to see the long rants were started and continued by the ones who want to shut up other people.

    It is like keep on scratching till you get a rise out of someone. Yes I am speaking of lady passion, tim and nam and others that pontificate great and grand ideas then slam and use four letter words in private and then go off on the sexual intellectual rants on the post.

    Debate debate debate just maybe some of us understand that debate will not advance anything when it is just a debate for debate’s sake.
    In reality freedom is not having to have a debate and just letting people be.

    If you want to dance around a tree go dance. If someone thinks that is silly let them think it.
    If someone wants to make love to a pine knot go for it, but don’t ask me to enjoy splinters.
    And do not ask me to pay for your pine tree.

    Man can’t we see that some things are a personal choice. The real freedom is in not trying to force your beliefs on someone else to justify your position. That also implies that verbal threats and rants and ravings only stop any seeds of live and let live.

    Lets face it Ron Paul has too many radical people pushing him and then they accuse others of being radical… People like Tim even keep some people from even considering what Ron is saying.

    If it were not for some folks in other towns that communicate (not debate) with me, I would think there was not any redeeming ideas coming from Ron Paul.

    I being at the meet up did not come to spy but see what was being told to the folks who bragged that they only wanted to become republican because of Ron Paul. Then some tried to half heartedly express liking some of the concepts of the Republican Party.

    Who was the leader of the attacks on the Carolina Stompers? Who was the first one to invite someone out side? Who used four letter words?

    Now with that said there was some pleasant conversation with one or two members of the group.
    But… not the one that did all of the above…

    Come on folks keep on attacking others and then the whole world will see the goals of the group, total freedom defined by a few…

    Debate is no good but existing without debate is simple.

  107. Lady Passion:

    About time and date stamps…anyone can copy and paste data. The data at youtube cannot (at least at my skill level) be faked. I’m saving my info for court.

    Necessity is the mother of invention. I prefer progressitarian to transpartisan geolibertarian, which Tim has apparently coined to describe himself. My term more broadly describes the lefty portion of the Ron Paul Movement.

    After your threats of legal action, the only way you’ll get that info (EIN) is in court. That would certainly help with the fund raising! 8)

    “They scream ‘Free Speech’, but when given the opportunity, refuse to debate.”

    Your ‘opportunity’ was a set-up. Besides, I doubt very much you could abide by the Vermont rules of debate. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that the Presidential Debates are real debates.

    “They name call when their opponents voice views different from their own.”

    If you can not name something, then you cannot discuss it.

    “They accuse others of “screeching”, then post long, rambling rants.”

    “They” was me. Re-watch the video and see if you can’t see the point. You guys are waaaay over reacting. That is what makes it so funny (to me anyway). ;P

  108. Don:

    There you go again — trying gamely to divert the subject with your ranting ;-)

    You can’t know WHAT words folks use in private, and I’m unaware of anyone going off on “sexual intellectual rants” as you accuse, save the Stompers themselves ;-)

    My comments, as are others, have been pointed and clear — seeking clarification of your windy diversions, or pointing out the fallacies of your arguments ;-)

    We did not challenge Chad & Nancy to a “debate for debate’s sake”. We’ve made it clear throughout that we welcome the opportunity to counter their bigoted spew. We even proposed topics we’ve no doubt they have different opinions on than us. If they want to debate other topics — great. We’re ready to debate them on any point of their choosing.

    If you truly believe what you write — in “just letting people be”, then you would not persecute Pagans nor Coven Oldenwllde ;-)

    We invited all interested persons to participate in our Save the Magnolias rite, and they did. The protest was not mandatory, and no one forced anyone to attend. You know this, Don.

    The fact is the Stompers were not attacked: THEY attacked others in the MXpress article. Everyone knows this, too, Don.


    Yet again you fail to produce the info requested. How can anyone have confidence in your claims, then?

    EIN numbers are public info that members of any nonprofit group are required to produce on request. I note you do not know this, and did not do so when I requested it. Ergo, how can anyone have confidence in your claims?

    Our challenge to debate was no “setup”, as we would be sharing the stage equally with Chad & Nancy, and therefore would be as vulnerable to vilification from Stompers supporters as C & N might be to Pagan supporters.

    You guys come across as very paranoid about a simple debate…

    The rules we proposed are standard, and designed to ensure equal treatment and opportunity for all participants. Timed rounds, arbiter, set questions… Standard procedure, actually ;-)

    Your defence of “name-calling” is ludicrous. If you want to “name” us to “discuss” things, try Pagan, Wiccan, Polytheist, Witch — not Pegan, Wikkan, Leftist, etc.

    The long, rambling rants I refered to are those posted by Stompers and their ilk throughout this list, and have nothing to do with your video ;-)

    We are not over-reaching. We won’t tolerate your bigotry, and slapped your hands for your temerity.

  109. Don Yelton

    Lady Passion thanks for a perfect example of a sexually intellectual rant…case closed no debate because a debate requires something of substance which in your case is only a mass of words spewed with refractory meanings.

  110. Ouch! No slap fights. LOL.

    You lost credibility with me with your continued rants of copyright violation, and inability to recognize satire. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. 8-D

  111. Don:

    Specify what you considered “sexual” in my reply or your accusation is baseless.

    Don & Thunderpig both refuse to answer clear questions posed them by many, and seem unable to even stick to the tangents they themselves posit.

    Sad this, but typical of their ilk, eh? ;-)

  112. Don Yelton

    you see Lady Passion you prove each point with your rebuttal as your rebuttal can not comprehend meaning only the limitations of the actual letter or letters or . or ?.

    Please expand your mind and read between the line as it might expand your mental capacity beyond the limitations of I told you so…

    Each stroke of your pen proves my points but if you can’t see that, all of the debate in the world can not get you beyond where you limitations can take you… go fly higher and higher and higher in you word games and see who will value that flight. Be careful because there are some talk trees out there that you can’t just dance around. You may fly into them and get splinters in yourself.

    game over,no challenge, just refractory comments. Go play with someone else that fancies words and I suggest tim. You both seem to have a flair for the use of large words that puffs up your self inflated picture of your inteligence.

    Sorry will not draw you a picture.

  113. ashevegasjoe

    wasn’t at the meeting in debate– but would like to know what this fear of large words comes from. I haven’t seen any large words posted by Lady Passion or Tim, but Don’s post is almost totally incoherent. Is this just me? Also, he seems to be the only one with “refractory” comments, dodging all questions, and using what some people in fourth grade might consider large words (though if the word fits should we stick to monosyllabic discourse?)

  114. ashevegasjoe

    Just wondering what “large words” Don is referring to. I haven’t seen any from Lady Passion or Tim, and would hope that in a political discussion we wouldn’t have to dumb it down for him. Using large words isn’t to inflate ego, we have the largest, and most specific language on the planet, let’s embrace it. Also, if anyone is refractory, and for that matter incomprehensible it is Don. Let’s stick to the debate and actually answer the questions posed by Chad (see my first post)

  115. I never saw that on Terms of Service for this board.

    If only the Nazis had gone after English Majors instead of Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies and Christians with spines, the world would be a much better place.

  116. Don:

    Yet again you issue strange accusations (“sexual”), yet refuse to be specific about your allegations when directly challenged ;-)

    Neither I, not any of your opponents in this list, have played “word games”.d

    We’ve asked direct questions, and get naught but complaints from your ilk about using “big words”, and more rambling exhortations to “read between the lines” ;-)

    Can not a one of you actually stick to topic, answer a single question, or do anything but obfuscate?


    You never saw WHAT “on Terms of Service on this board”?

    The fact that all leaders of nonprofits must submit EIN numbers upon request? If not, then you know less about legalities than I thought…

    FYI: I was never an English major. My degree is in medicine ;-)

    But as a Witch, I do agree with you: The Nazis should never have gone after Gypsies :-)

  117. Ashevegasjoe:

    Agreed on all counts regarding your note that Stompers’ opponents’ have not used “big words” and that any “refractory” statements on this list originated from the Stompers themselves ;-)

    However, you and I may differ in that I don’t think it’s CHAD’S questions we should discuss, but the questions WE posed in our debate challenge ;-)

  118. Lady Passion:

    I was being sarcastic to joe, hence the /s at the end of the statement.

    Pointing out spelling problems is one way attempting to discredit an opponent without taking on his/her message, it is a deflection.

    Have you checked your Private Messages?

    Electronics/Computer Engineering here.

    As typical hardcore lefties, the Nazis could not tolerate anyone with a different belief system.

  119. Thunderpig:

    No matter how you’ve tried to explain your intent in using Is at the end of your sentences, no one understands nor appreciates your eccentricity.

    Ad stop self-promoting (i.e., posting video links & insipid emoticons ;-)

  120. Don Yelton

    Thanks to each of you who have questioned “refractory” because you have illusted
    exactly what I was referring to. Refract means to bend or turn aside. Webster’s New World Dictionary, 1966)

    Who has said or started the ideas of debate or argue—you guys started that.

    Who has said that the stompers were afraid to debate when all that they said was debate the democratic party. You guys again bend what was said…

    That is exactly what the meaning of refractory is because you tend to play word games and then you accuse someone of that because you are so wrapped up in your arguement that you fail to even considered what is being said. It puts me in mind of someone who is so proud of what they are going to say and picking apart small things like a dropped e or the lack of understand of words like poke (and that is not in the eye either) that all you are doing is getting ready for your refractory comment.

    Keep it up!!!!

  121. Lady Amythyst Raine

    I feel genuinely sorry for anyone living within the confines of a narrow mind. It must be terribly cramped in there…

    “Fear of serious injury alone cannot justify oppression of free speech and assembly. Men feared witches and burnt women. It is the function of speech to free men from the bondage of irrational fears.”

    Louis D. Brandeis

    “The Christian fear of the Pagan outlook has damaged the whole consciousness of man.”

    David Herbert Lawrence

    “Witchcraft … is a spiritual path. You walk it for nourishment of the soul, to commune with the life force of the universe, and to thereby better know your own life.”

    CHRISTOPHER PENCZAK, The Inner Temple of Witchcraft

    For more information on Wiccan education and Anti-defamation, follow the link below.

  122. Lady Amythyst Raine:

    Thank you for imbuing this list with sorely needed, apropo quotes ;-)


    WE all know what refractory means. What we’ve been writing is that if ANYONE is “refractory”, it is you, and as a Stompers member, ergo THEM.

    And BTW, citing Webster’s to clarify one’s position is the hallmark of a bad lecturer or writer, and hence widely viewed as droll [YAWN] ;-)

  123. Don:

    We challenged you “pansy pachyderms” to debate us because you and Chad Nesbitt needlessly, wrongly, bigotedly bashed Coven Oldenwilde in the press (Mountain Xpress).

    YOU guys fired the first shot across the bow, but WE finished you ;-)

    I’ve not written you were afraid to debate us simply because you stole our ‘Spiritual Smackdown’ idea for a debate.

    Instead, I’ve repeatedly written that you are clearly petrified of debating Pagans more intellectual than yourselves BECAUSE Chad tried to divert the issue from us to the Dem party ;-)

  124. self-promoting?

    now that is funny! I’m not the one telling the Mtn Xpress they should ignore the Stompers in favor of exposure for more lefties.

    I guess we will see how you guys/gays/undecideds handle a real conservative media outlet.

    Citing Websters is an excellent citation source, and well accepted in formal debating societies.

    If ANYONE is intolerant in Asheville, it is the lefties.

  125. Nana

    We all have the right to believe what we want and that goes for religion etc…I think some people are afraid to face the truth about how it all began and as humans there are to many to change things to suit themselves due to fear of something less understood…instead of taking time to argue one point, take time to study all points and go from there…our land etc is just as important, if not more, than we are…without it we could not exist…SO HUG A TREE !!!!!!!!

  126. David Lynch

    Personally, I think the Lady Passion should never have bothered to spar with reptilian right-winger Chad Nesbitt. Someone much wiser than myself once said:

    “I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.”
    — George Bernard Shaw

  127. ashevegasjoe

    For the record, I am a lefty, and I don’t wish to silence anyone. I listen to conservative radio, as much as progressive. I enjoy hearing both sides, though I thoroughly believe mine to be the more rational and tolerant. Polititcal discourse is healthy, as is the existance of lefties and righties (we keep eachother in check). My criticism was not with a dropped e, it was with not knowing the words “probably” and “zealot”, both extremely common words. Also, I would like to note, I am not an English major, I am a landscaper who works his butt off when it’s not freezing. The terms “sarcasm”, “irony”, and as used by thunderpig “satire” should be generally understood by anyone who wants to debate politics

  128. ashevegasjoe

    Also, Don and Thunderpig, I am waiting to any response to my very straight forward response to Chad’s letter (which is the subject of this thread). I answered all of the issues putforth, and have heard nothing but name calling and dodging of the issues by both sides, but mostly yours!

  129. David:

    While I share your distaste for “sparring”, we did not choose this Path.

    However, as Wiccan clergy, we would be remiss not to defend our practices and faith when bashed by bigots.

    Indeed, we are DUTY-BOUND by Pagan tradition to do so.

    In our case, we tried to dialogue with our detractors, but the Stompers cowardly refused our challenge ;-)

    I posit a different quote: “Evil triumphs when good men do nothing”.


    “Political” discourse aside (for as I’ve written, as runners of a religious nonprofit we’re forbidden to side with any party or candidate), I agree with you on the need for spirited, public debate.

    Sadly, you’ll likely be kept “waiting” for response from Don and Thunderpig, to your straightforwardly-posed questions.

    As have I.

    As have we all ;-)

  130. Don Yelton

    Thanks Nana for your comments because that is what I had tried to say all along. Some on this board are determined to DEBATE and win and will never communicate. They only twist an answer to fit their interputation. Thanks again. Yes the tree is important. If you desire to hold the tree in esteem, so be it. I choose to seek something deeper than a tree but that does not keep me from appreciating the tree.

    As a matter of fact that goes to the idea of carbon dioxide causing global warming. You can be so hung up on that that you refuse to see that carbon dioxide and water is all that a tree needs. MMMM does that mean more carbon dioxide would result in larger trees and more vegetation which could have a positive effect and balance out the increased carbon dioxide.

    That is why “refractory thinking” and actions are harmful to everyone.

    Now there I have said thanks to you Nana for making a good point…

    We need more communication and less debating.
    We all are different but the atmosphere today is to bring consensus but true consensus requires freedom of thought and not debate.

    The refractory thinking takes what you say and twists it to keep the arguement going. That tactic removes the possibility that you believe one way and I another. That is true freedom and to pursue a debate just further proves someones desire to push you down to thier level of antigonistic confrontation. That is ignorant and not progressive toward a higher understanding of human nature…

    Thanks again for a bright note and yes Thunder Pig the other side can not believe that we do not bow to their tactics which are so far removed from communication.

    As I have said keep it up and prove the real points here. YOU WANT IT YOUR WAY. Well too bad too sad.

  131. ashevegasjoe

    Lady Passion:
    I apologize for equating your religion with the dirty world of politics, we seem to agree frequently. If I wasn’t such a left-wing, weak-kneed, commie, pinko, eco-terrorist who hates America, is agnostic, secularist, totally irrational, and incapable of tolerance after spending thirty years in Asheville, that bastion of loony left wing hatred, I’d look into your religion! Maybe I will see the loving white light that is the conservative movement?

  132. ashevegasjoe:
    I can’t get the response to be accepted (prolly ‘cuz of length) so here it is if ya wanna read it.

    If ya registered, I could’ve just sent it to ya PM.

  133. ashevegasjoe

    T.P.: Thanks for your honest, straightforward response. “Standing on the shoulders of giants” is not solely a conservative idea (much like I said the country is not founded solely on Christian ideas). It is a reference to Isaac Newton, and originally to Bernard of Chartres circa 1100 c.e. As an independent, I’m not saying I don’t agree w/ some conservative beliefs (most notably fiscal conservatism and small gov.t). The Iraq references you made were about it being the smallest number of casualties are amsusing, as A.) it is ongoing and B.) medical advances have made it such that more people survive maimed and emotionally devastated. I would argue that no casualties are o.k. for such a pointless war. Iraq was no threat, there were no weapons (even G.W. has had to concede this). Lastly, i have registered but ME has not sent confirmation. Thanks for the straigtht forward, congenial reply!

  134. ashevegasjoe

    Also, I don’t fly, I think your examples are on the level of two wrongs making a right, and if extending are military to the breaking point in a never ending war makes us safer, than you are definately right. Note: the surge has not worked as none of the political benchmarks putforth by G.W. have been met, and probably never will as long as we are seen as occupiers. For military history, I defy you to name a succesful insurgency that has been quelled by an occupying force.

  135. Don:

    “Some on this board are determined to DEBATE and win and will never communicate.”

    Sorry, but your tongue-tiedness is showing again…

    Debating IS a form of communication. And consensus is oft-arrived at via spirited debate.

    Indeed, for you to posit what we need and what we don’t is YOUR attempt to restrict “freedom of thought” ;-)

    “They only twist an answer to fit their interputation.”

    I assume Don actually meant “interpretation”?

    If Don truly appreciated trees as he claims, he’d know there’s little “deeper”, as trees provide the oxygen he breaths ;-)

    While we’re on Don’s tangent: Yes, trees breath carbon dioxide. There’s normal, set amount the planet requires, but sadly humans have exceeded the needed amount. Hence, global warming and its deliterious effects…

    More carbon dioxide than needed has been scientifically proven to produce aggressive varieties of needle weeds in Alaska — to the exclusion of preferable, diverse tree species.

    Don’t dare claim higher thinking, or that our challenge to debate your leader and his wife is anything more than we’ve repeatedly written: A simple civilized debate between couples of differing viewpoints.

    And don’t dare claim we don’t communicate, as this is the second most hit and input list in the opinion section. Indeed, I’ve “communicated” daily to you and your ilk ;-)

  136. ashevegasjoe

    The scale of global warming cannot be proven due to the number of factors in climatology. What is not debatable, is the basic physical science and depletion of the artic ice shelf that has been recorded, and appears to be accelerating. That this has anthropogenic causation is of no doubt to scientists worldwide. There are a very small number of scientists who recieve funding from oil, coal, and gov’t. agencies that try to argue overwhelming data. Why would people perpetuate global warmirng? Because of a desire to kill the American lifestyle and economy and lifestyle? Give me a break. We need to realize that our actions have reprucussions, and the Earth is not so vast that we have no impact on it. I will offer $10,000 dollars to anyone who can prove gravity. You can’t, because you don’t know it will always be there, that’s why it’s a theory. You can assume that it will probably happen, much like our continual warming trend. Maybe the overwhelming number of scientists across the globe are trying to overthrow the U.S. for political gain? Or maybe, large companies making millions of dollars want to supress actual science in a last ditch effort to make millions while we debate? Which is more plausible, and is this the thread where we debate this?

  137. Kara Strider

    Everone has an opinion; its tolerence that people needed. Enlightenment requires servitude to the truth and a tolerence of stupidity. Road rage doesn’t help anyone drive better. just my 2 cents

  138. Nam Vet

    AsheJoe said: “For the record, I am a lefty, and I don’t wish to silence anyone. I listen to conservative radio, as much as progressive. I enjoy hearing both sides, though I thoroughly believe mine to be the more rational and tolerant. Polititcal discourse is healthy, as is the existance of lefties and righties (we keep eachother in check). My criticism was not with a dropped e, it was with not knowing the words “probably” and “zealot”, both extremely common words. Also, I would like to note, I am not an English major, I am a landscaper who works his butt off when it’s not freezing.”

    Good post AsheJoe. I am close to you here.

  139. Dan Defino

    Oh come on, you’re all kidding right? The Chad-people are actually George Carlin or someone, right? This whole ‘stomper thing’ is someone’s idea of a wacky internet joke, right?

    -just a guy from up north, where we put the psychos with cobra tattoos in prisons, and we don’t let them have websites…..


  140. don yelton

    please read and consider —the deeper thoughts behind this–why debate? if you want to dance-dance, -if you don’t want to dance, don’t dance. what is happening here is someone is not willing to let live. They want to have it their way period. Some of us will not be pushed into debates, we see no need to debate our beliefs and we have a right to our beliefs.

    Thank you, my friend…

    This is a wonderful story. Be sure to pass it on.

    When I arrived at 2:30 a.m., the building was dark except for a single light in a ground floor window.

    Under these circumstances, many drivers would just honk once or twice, wait a minute, and then drive away.

    But I had seen too many impoverished people who depended on taxis as their only means of transportation. Unless a situation smelled of danger, I always went to the door. This passenger might be someone who needs my assistance, I reasoned to myself.

    So I walked to the door and knocked. ‘Just a minute’, answered a frail, elderly voice. I could hear something being dragged across the floor.

    After a long pause, the door opened. A small woman in her 90’s stood before me. She was wearing a print dress and a pillbox hat with a veil pinned on it, like somebody out of a 1940s movie.

    By her side was a small nylon suitcase. The apartment looked as if no one had lived in it for years. All the furniture was covered with sheets.

    There were no clocks on the walls, no knickknacks or utensils on the counters. In the corner was a cardboard box filled with photos and glassware.

    ‘Would you carry my bag out to the car?’ she said. I took the suitcase to the cab, then returned to assist the woman.

    She took my arm and we walked slowly toward the curb.

    She kept thanking me for my kindness. ‘It’s nothing’, I told her. ‘I just try to treat my passengers the way I would want my mother treated’.

    ‘Oh, you’re such a good boy’, she said. When we got in the cab, she gave me an address, and then asked, ‘Could you drive through downtown?’

    ‘It’s not the shortest way,’ I answered quickly.

    ‘Oh, I don’t mind,’ she said. ‘I’m in no hurry. I’m on my way to a hospice’.

    I looked in the rear-view mirror. Her eyes were glistening. ‘I don’t have any family left,’ she continued. ‘The doctor says I don’t have very long.’ I quietly reached over and shut off the meter.

    ‘What route would you like me to take?’ I asked.

    For the next two hours, we drove through the city. She showed me the building where she had once worked as an elevator operator.

    We drove through the neighborhood where she and her husband had lived when they were newlyweds. She had me pull up in front of a furniture warehouse that had once been a ballroom where she had gone dancing as a girl.

    Sometimes she’d ask me to slow in front of a particular building or corner and would sit staring into the darkness, saying nothing.

    As the first hint of sun was creasing the horizon, she suddenly said, ‘I’m tired. Let’s go now’

    We drove in silence to the address she had given me.It was a low building, like a small convalescent home, with a driveway that passed under a portico.

    Two orderlies came out to the cab as soon as we pulled up. They were solicitous and intent, watching her every move. They must have been expecting her.

    I opened the trunk and took the small suitcase to the door. The woman was already seated in a wheelchair.

    ‘How much do I owe you?’ she asked, reaching into her purse.

    ‘Nothing,’ I said

    ‘You have to make a living,’ she answered.

    ‘There are other passengers,’ I responded.

    Almost without thinking, I bent and gave her a hug. She held onto me tightly.

    ‘You gave an old woman a little moment of joy,’ she said.

    ‘Thank you.’

    I squeezed her hand, and then walked into the dim morning light. Behind me, a door shut. It was the sound of the closing of a life.

    I didn’t pick up any more passengers that shift. I drove aimlessly lost in thought. For the rest of that day, I could hardly talk. What if that woman had gotten an angry driver, or one who was impatient to end his shift?

    What if I had refused to take the run, or had honked once, then driven away?

    On a quick review, I don’t think that I have done anything more important in my life.

    We’re conditioned to think that our lives revolve around great moments.

    But great moments often catch us unaware-beautifully wrapped in what others may consider a small one.


    But, you might help make the world a little kinder and more compassionate by sending it on.

  141. ashevegasjoe

    Thanks Nam Vet, finding common ground blows my mind. I’ve got nothing more to say on this thread because finding all this common ground has shifted my worldview!

  142. vortex2177

    LMAO @ the mental picture of uber liberal tree hugging dirt worshippers and conservative baptist rednecks having an “organized debate” to talk about which religion is better.

    Whether you worship christ or mutter spells you’re a moron either way.

  143. Ashevegasjoe: “…is this the thread [The liberal smackdownn expands] where we debate… [global warming]?”

    Of course not ;-) Thunderpig was simply, unsucccessfully being tangential to avoid answering my pointed rebuttals ;-)

    The topic remains the Stompers’ “breathtaking” refusal to debate us Pagans whom they bashed in the Mountain Xpress.


    I doubt few of any bashed religion would relish the idea of hugging or sipping tea with bigots, and Witches are no different in this regard.

    However, we DID challenge Stompers founders Chad & Nancy to publicly debate us in civilized fashion, which they cowardly refused to do.

    Despite Chad’s attempt to dodge their refusal by in turn challenging local DEOMOCRATS to debate, he and his wife’s refusal to debate the Pagans they bashed has been and remains the sole topic of this thread.

    Dan Defino:

    Sadly, the Stompers’ bigotry, their incompetence with English, and their tangential rants are all too real.

    The Stompers and their supports truly believe the spew they pervade and post ;-)

  144. Caprice

    This was the most ignorant article that I have ever read! You used euphemisms to hide your fear due to your lack of understanding. You sit inside your stereotypical mind, making fun of people who do not see the world the way you do, and then mock them for your ignorance. Do yourself and your readers a favor, understand what you are writing about before you go making assumptions! Harry Potter was a fictional story commercializing magic and magical theories for the entertainment of people such as yourself. The practices you mock are activities you take part in everyday. Do you know what kind calendar we use and what the days of the week, or the names of the month represent? Do you know why we base our calendar on a lunar cycle? Do you know why christian holidays and pagan holidays are on the same day? Do you know what a prayer is, and why you are asked to pray for those who are injured or sick? Do you know what the innvocation part of church is, or what innovcation means? Do you wonder why monothesim was created by Akhenton, the father of king tut? do you know what monothesim is? Do you know why they were trying to protect the tree? What would happen to the earth if there werent people to protect it? Do you feel bigger and better about yourself after putting down people you in your shallow ignorant mind, you will never understand. And instead of pitying you, I wish you well! May life bless you in a positive spirit, May you find kindess in all of your hate, and may you find love in your anger! blessed be!

  145. Chad Nesbitt

    I go out of town for the weekend and the witches, Tim Peck athiests, and liberals are still having a hissy fit about my letter. Ha, HA, HA! Damn, you guys need to get a life.

    163 comments? Holly Molly!

    Talk is cheap. Get yourself crediable.
    Tell the Democrats to debate!
    Their platform supports you.

    Chad Nesbitt

  146. Dionysis

    “Get yourself crediable.”

    WTF does this mean, to make sure you apply for a credit card?

    “Tell the Democrats to debate!”

    Why should a recognized political party engage a small group of fuzzy-thinking extremists in ‘debate’? As has been pointed out, if your group can legitimately claim to be a branch of the Republican Party, then fine. Otherwise, why should Democrats give you the time of day? It’s not like your group represents anyone other than a small group of malcontents. Geez, delusions of grandeur.

  147. Nam Vet

    I’d like to see a moderated debate between the Stompers and Lady Passion’s witches. Moderated so it doesn’t devolve into name calling. Come on Chad, go for it. How about holding it at the republican coffee shop on Merrimon?

  148. Dionysis

    “I’d like to see a moderated debate between the Stompers and Lady Passion’s witches.”

    Yep, I wouldn’t mind watching that myself. As it stands, the only thing the ‘Stompers’ have proven themselves capable of stomping is the English language.

  149. Nad Cheesebits: “Holly Molly!”

    Use spellcheck, Chad. It’s Holy moley…

    “Talk is cheap.”

    Precisely what we Witches have proven about the Stompers ;-)

    Indeed, as we wrote in our The Goodly Spellbook, “Talk is cheap, but deeds are dear.”

    “Get yourself crediable.”

    I assume you mean “credible”… Chad, if ya’ can’t SPELL a word properly, refrain from trying to use it ;-)

    Dionysis: Agreed. Chad and his ilk DEFINITELY have delusions of grandeur ;-)

    Nam Vet: I’m so happy you’d like to see us debate the Stompers. Goddess knows I’d relish the opportunity ;-)

    In our challenge to Chad & Nancy we proposed a neutral moderator — I’d like to see Sheryl Barber do it, for instance (he’s a well-respected, long-time local reporter I bet all sides could agree with…

    Whaddaya’ say, Chad & Nancy? Would Sheryl Barber be agreeable to you?

    If not, who would YOU like to see moderate our debate?

  150. Gordon Smith

    To sum it all up:

    1. Stompers attack Wiccans
    2. Wiccans ask Stompers for debate
    3. Stompers cower
    4. Stompers ask to debate an entire political party
    5. Nasty flame war comment thread ensues
    6. Stompers and Wiccans come out looking worse

    For the record, I’d love to see Chad and Don debate Lady Passion.

  151. Gordon Smith:

    Aw contrare. ‘Tis only the Stompers who’ve taken a licking by being portrayed as Neanderthalesque in a Morton cartoon, in being blasted on MXpress threads a-plenty for their ignorant bigotry, poor spelling, and lack of command of the English language — not to mention for their “breathtaking” cowardice to publicly dialogue with those they bash ;-)

    As always when it comes to bigotry aimed at us, we Wiccans emerge victorious ;-)

    Case in point: Now the Stompers and their ilk have been forced to concede that the proper spelling for our faith is “Wiccan”, not “Wickan” and “Pagan”, nor “Pegan” (as the original bash video had it :-)

  152. Bottom line, the Stompers and their ilk must at least answer our query as to whether or not some neutral party like Sheryl Barber would be an amenable debate moderator…

    Otherwise, I think most everyone not in their clique will easily conclude that the Stompers are simply terrified of getting a public Witch Whompin’:-)

  153. Ha, ha! Made the Stompers and their ilk disappear — poof into thin air — just like any goodly Witch can do!

    See Chad — throwing water on the Witch don’t make her melt.

    Failure to stick to topic and refuse to debate like a civilized person has its price, eh?

  154. Don Yelton

    Actually no the stompers nor I have disappeared. You know the old saying give someone enough rope and they will hang them selves.. I think we just did that. Who is the ego freak that brags about winning.

    Who wanted a war to start with? The ones that danced around a tree and preach brotherly love.
    Who tries to use legalism and words to try to win.

    We just gave you 24 hours to hang yourself and prove that you want nothing but your way. Ha Ha Ha Ha.

    now you have all the time you need to rant and rave to yourself and your followers.

  155. Dionysis

    “Who tries to use legalism and words to try to win.”

    Good point. I mean really, the very idea of using ‘words’ and the ‘law’. Next thing you know, some clown will be trying to goad people into a debate.

  156. ashevegasjoe

    I just stopped posting because it gave Chad so much joy. Also, what else can be said that hasn’t been said about fake news story that is the Stompers.

  157. dickyfauge

    I’m a thinking theres some people here who are in need of a good colon cleanse.

  158. Don: Witches oppose War in all forms, as you well know ;-)

    We simply defend our personal spiritual practices and our religion when bashed by bigots, as does anyone else ;-)

    Further, Witches don’t “preach”, we circle hand-in-hand with everyone as equals, as we did around the Magnolias which remain standing because of our care…

    As for bragging of winning: In reminding folks the Stompers cowered we’re inspiring others to bush back against their and similar others’ bigotry.

    Dionysis: Excellent satire points! Goddess KNOWS the Xians NEVER use the laws they impose on others of differing beliefs to their OWN advantage, eh?

    Bottom line: None of the Stompers have responded to our offer of Sheryl Barber or someone similar of their choice that we can all agree on to serve as a neutral moderator in a civilized debate.

    Why? Because they know they’d be publicly humiliated in a debate with us, that’s why ;-)

    Other threads suggest that Wiccans shouldn’t “stoop” to debating such ilk, and superficially, I can understand why they feel this way.

    However, we don’t feel that anything’s gained by allowing bigotry to go unchecked. Rather, everything’s gained by exposing it, challenging it, and denouncing it.

    Ask Chad & Nancy what they’re so afraid of, eh?

  159. Nam Vet

    You know Lady passion, by your continued taunting and bragging of courage and victory, you have diminished yourself and your cause. Give it a rest and practice some random acts of kindness. Goddess knows you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. -:)

  160. Hopefully

    NO, you catch more flies with shat, and theres plenty of that around here….right namvet!

  161. Angel8146

    Nad Cheesebits, LMAO!! That’s the best name i’ve heard for him yet. Go get them Lady Passion! Look guys I’m no genious and I probably can’t spell for sh*t either but this isn’t a spelling war. Nothing aimed at you Lady Passion. (and no, I’m not scared she’ll turn me into anything.) She’s actually a goodly person if anyone would just get off her backside long enough to see. But that’s not the point i’m trying to make here. My point is, who are any of you people to judge one another’s beliefs. It’s no humans place to judge another human for what they believe or what political party they are from no matter what walk of life they are from. What ever happened to getting to know someone for who they are as a person and not whether they are Democrats or Republicans, Christians or Pagans. It seems to me that all of you have lost sight of what is important, everyone wants to find a way to fight but no one wants to find a way to get along or find anything in common. So in the end all you get done is fighting. Who are you helping by all of this? Isn’t that what all of you are tring to do, make the world a better place for all of us and our children. How is fighting the answer? Yes,debates are good things sometimes but this is far more than a debate now. So if debating is what you want to do then debate but do it and fairly, and stick to the point Stompers!! If you want Lady Passion and *Diuvei to debate your subjects then be fair and debate their’s as well. After all they did ask you for the debate FIRST! If your not going to debate fairly and reasonably face to face then you need to grow up and stop hiding behind computers in the comments section of the Mountain Xpress like a bunch of kindergarteners.

  162. Angel8146

    Dang, apparently Lady Passion did shut a few of you up. It sure has been peacefull.

  163. Angel8146

    Oh man it’s quiet in here. Seems like someone did grow wings and start clucking, hmmm wonder who that could be???

  164. Angel8146

    I have attempted to post several comments, but apparently it offends someone at the MXpress. I thought the whole point here was to get across all opinions, guess not.

  165. Angel8146:
    If you are registered, and logged in, someone has to approve your comments manually…which can take a while if no one from Mtn X is watching the comment moderation system.

    It is a lot easier to take the time to register, and log in. Your comment appears almost instantly if you take the time.

  166. Angel8146

    I do apologize Thunder Pig, females do have the tendancy to be quite impatient, as am I.

  167. Sorry — I was away this weekend conducting our Imbolc Sabbat…

    Back now, and I wish I could take credit for Nad Cheesebits and fulfil the patronizing assumptions about my “taunting and bragging” by ilk like Don and Namvet, but it was a fan of mine that wrote me that epithet ;-)

    Considering that Chad started the name-calling by referring to my mate and I as Mr. & Ms. Voldemort, I thought it apropo, so I used it in this list ;-)

    I’ve received SEVERAL private requests to appear on UR-TV and talk about all this, or to debate Chad & Nancy via that medium if they’ll agree.

    Am checking these men out to ensure that they’re neutral and not Stompers in disguise (like the last guy who filmed our Save the Magnolias rite, then turned the footage over the them for an attack ad against Council candidate Elain Lite).

    Wish me luck, and read our final words at present about all this in the Commentary ‘Stompers Must Fear a Witch Wompin'” in this Wednesday’s Mountain Xpress!

  168. R. Bernier

    Ms. Passion,

    I am that person who filmed this event & I take note that you call me a member of the “Stompers”.

    I have remarked in public that I am not a member of this group, with the likes of Tim Peck who tries to do the same on his blogs.

    With Tim, he is upset over URTV not allowing him not to follow procedures, he got mad – called people at URTV names & wrote untrue remarks in blogs.

    The staff at URTV is very fair, I know this to be very true.

    Now, as far as footage, I have learned the hard way, the need to copy write my material – mark this one up on being a new member to public access tv.

    I was very upfront with you @ the time of the filming. Infact we spoke on film for three mins -were you explain “why” you & your group was their, Im sure you recall this?

    This was a public event on public property which was covered by WWNC radio,local paper & WLOS thus my reson to show the entire event of 30 mins, not that of 45secs that WLOS aired.

    Russ Bowen was their with WLOS, I asked him why he failed to film Elaine Lite & recived no responce. If this had been a member of the GOP, dont you think they would have pointed this out????

    In fairness to you, I belive I will re-air this 30min program in a few months. I am very open to sit down with you & do a one on one.

    I got over 125emails from this program, 98% wanted to know what the “deal” was. Maybe, we could intro the program for 5 or 10 mins then after 30mins, we can do a 20 min chat about the program.

    I am very upfront & will open my program up for yourself, I cant speak for others only that of myself.

    This is no way a debate, just a sit down with my thoughts along with yours, let the people hear & let them know were we both stand.


    R. Bernier

  169. Nam Vet

    Thank you for the explanation, R Bernier. Nothing like the true picture to bring things into perspective. Lady Passion, your continued vitriol aimed at those who disagree with you, even slightly, actually harms your point of view. For witch/Wiccanism to be in the same room as the major religions, I assume y’all believe in brother/sisterhood with all Goddess’ creatures? Even including males? Please, let’s have a little more LOVE here! Amen! Awomen!

    I would love to see Lady passion come out of the shadows and chat on URTV with this gentleman. And it would be even grander if Chad Nesbitt has at least a few minutes with her and the democrat “goodly” progressive party. And I hope y’all come out of it all hugs and lovey-dovey. For Goddess sakes! :)

  170. Don Yelton

    Richard if someone was proud of dancing around the tree why was they upset about it… I think a lot of people make fun of Christians don’t they.

    What is the big deal unless they want in only their way. They even brag about beating someone down and talk of feathers and clucking… well he who clucks the loudest and fluff their feathers the most is the one that is really the chicken and proud of trying to flog people..

    That was public property and not for a private party. I think that is why they want the tree to stand…public property….actually their display has shown their lack of respect for public property…now scratch on that one for a while.

  171. Don Yelton

    I though witches did not believe in being mean and did not participate in “wompins”.

    Oh I guess then we know what that means.. Maybe you need to go attend another session of imblc sabbat. I will pray for you.

  172. travelah

    Now, Don, don’t go around demeaning Groundhogs Day .. er… I mean Imbolc Sabbat … I am surprised Lady Passion is here after seeing her shadow the other day so give here some credit for effort.

  173. Richard Bremier:

    I don’t know your name, and hence have never called you a “member of the Stompers”. If I referred to you at all it was to reiterate what Chad and Don claimed in the MXpress piece (namely, that the man who filmed the rite for URTV later turned over his copy to them).

    So you’re NOT an official Stomper but admit that somehow they, via URTV, used your footage without your permission? Copyright should be implied, as you filmed the piece…

    Wow, this mirrors Thunderpig’s potentially unlawful copyright infringement of Warner Bros.’ 2001: A Space Oddysey…

    At any rate, thanks for the invite to talk with you one-on-one, but I’m sure you can understand my reluctance considering that you were unable to control your initial media…

    NamVet: Our preference has always been for a public debate with the Nesbitts so fellow citizens of every stripe could judge for themselves as opinions occurred. We’ll do it if ever the Nesbitt’s change their mind, for I am certain the public is hungry to witness a ‘Spiritual Smackdown’ ;-)

    “Vitriol” is excessive vehemence, and therefore differse from the specific articulateness which I’ve displayed throughout this thread.

    ‘Twas not the making “fun” of us which Don wrongly continues to claim “upset” us, but the Stompers’ twisiting of our sacred rite to suit their political agenda that many decried as foul.

    As do most folks, Witches generally give liars, thieves, and name-calling bigots a wide birth.

    The fact that we were yet willing to debate the Nesbitts showed care on our part that the Stompers seem unable to see or appreciate ;-)

    As for ‘wompins’ — again our words tongue-in-cheek wryly mirror the needlessly “aggressive” WWF-style rhetoric the Stompers used in their MXpress feature. Can’t any of you recognize anothers’ humor?

    That’s the whole point: Witches AREN’T known for ‘wompin’, but WILL if need be, in order to push back against abject bigotry ;-)

  174. Travelah: But isn’t this what you guys fault me for?

    For failure to hide my light under a bushel? For failure to come across with Witchy (er… feminine) “love” in response to your bigoted bashing?

    You’ve apparently never dealt with a woman who doesn’t balk or back down to your ilk ;-)

    Well get used to it, for in what I do, I am actively encouraging all men and women offended by your bigotry to denounce you with capable courage ;-)

  175. Ya’ know, to redirect this thread back to the beginning, I’d like to underscore what many found so sad about Chad’s response to our challenge:

    “Our answer to [our challengers] is “no”—they have already been stomped.”

    Hey, Don: How THAT for “crowing”?

    “What started all of their hysteria…”

    Our challenge was not hysterical, but lucid.

    “…comes from a commercial we put on WLOS and YouTube, showing just how crazy Asheville has become since the liberals have taken over.”

    Calling our city “crazy” includes citizens such as Chad himself, and does not win converts to the Stompers’ cause. ;-)

    “It showed a Democratic candidate for Asheville City Council dancing with witches, pagans and liberals around a tree.”

    No, it showed a citizen attending a public event based on her pro-environmental conscience.

    “They hugged this tree, kissed the tree and sang to this tree.”

    We did not sing to the tree, but chant for its thrival. Further, trees are not meant to be merely danced around and looked at but never touched, as Xtians are fond of. Nay, they are living beings who value personal kindness like any other.

    “Embarrassing them again in a debate would be just too cruel.”

    We did not find the footage embarrasing for US, but for you (with its poor quality and misspellings).

    “Fictional movies like [the] Harry Potter [films] are fun and entertaining, but everyone knows that brooms don’t fly and owls don’t deliver the mail.”

    This has nothing to do with real Witches such as ourselves who wrote a best-selling non-fiction book about magic ;-)

    “People who believe in that kind of thing are no different than the cult that killed themselves to catch a ride with a space ship following the Hale-Bopp Comet, or the group that saw the movie The Matrix and believed it, then called it a religion.”

    We had no brooms nor owls at the rite, and the groups he cited are not Witchy, but New Agey at best.

    “Witches, anarchists, atheists, occults,…”

    Okay. It’s “occultists” or “cults”, not “occults.”

    “…openly gay,…”

    Does this mean being a closeted gay is okay, as certain Republican folk have been recently accused of being?

    “war haters—the Democratic Party loves you.”

    Actually, every Dem we’re aware save Obama and perhaps a few others voted repeatedly for the current war…

    “Liberal strategists know you scream loud for attention. You are different, and you appeal to young, rebellious, naive minds [and] thus votes for the leftist agenda.”

    Covens have members of all ages.

    “Our fight is not with a small group of Disneyland witches.”

    We did not use the word “fight”, Chad did ;-)

    “Our fight is with the entire liberal agenda that corrupts our children’s minds.”

    If so, then why did Chad and Don bash us specifically in their article?

    “If it’s a debate they want, then Carolina Stompers challenges the local Democratic Party, since they represent the driving force behind destroying America.”

    The Dems never challenged Chad to a debate — WE did.

    ‘Nuff for now…

  176. R Bernier

    Lady Passion,
    (Dixie Deerman)

    I am sadden that you are not able to sit down & preview the cable cast of the production then afterwards we can share our thoughts.

    I hope you will change you mind in the near future. I will send out a group email to the 100plus emails I have recived asking about this program.

    Lady Passion, agian this is not a debate – just a sit down with only myself & hear your views along with my thoughts. Hope you will rethink this request.

    I have tried,

    R. Bernier

  177. Traveleh

    Lady Passion, aside from your ad-homonid attacks, I am in complete agreement with you. Even the name “stomper” is neanderthal.

  178. Nam Vet

    Lady Passion, your continued vitriol aimed at those who disagree with you, even slightly, actually harms your point of view. For witch/Wiccanism to be in the same room as the major religions, I assume y’all believe in brotherhood/sisterhood with all Goddess’ creatures? Even including males? Please, let’s have a little more LOVE here! Amen! Awomen!

  179. Rebecca Nelson-Denmark

    Why does Chad here seem to be so concerned that someone’s sexual relationship preferences will be “pushed” on his children? I mean, I don’t mean to be too extreme here, but whenever I hear the words “pushing” and “beliefs” and I can’t help but envision how Chad must have this terrified image in his head of a bizarre situation where his children will go to school finding a lesbian or gay teacher standing naked in front the class giving a live sex demonstration – all of this while soft music containing subliminal messages is played in the background…oh and of course the children are all forcefully hypnotized and threatened that if they do not conform something terrible will happen…..GIVE ME A FLIPPING BREAK!

    The most ironic thing in all of this is the fact that if you ACTUALLY study JESUS himself, (not the insane radicals that may have come before or after him) you will find he was generally a pretty peaceful man. I mean Jesus was kinda just doing his own thing by exhibiting tremendous patience and the ultimate sacrifice of love – his life.

    Yet people like CHAD seem to forget this part of the Bible.

    Maybe the most terrifying thing here for Chad is that he is not afraid of someone else’s vies – but of his very own belief system. You know deep in Chad’s heart I am sure he is acutely aware of the fact that he is full of hatred, anger, unforgiveness, etc. Maybe by trying to protect his children from the so-called terrible liberals or Democrats or whatever his choice of words may be, what he is really trying to do is to protect his children from seeing what a lonely, pathetic man he is.

    After all, nobody likes to fall off the pedestal that we often times so highly perch ourselves upon…

    This post is just my two scents though. I’m just glad I know what I believe and don’t have to suffer the anguish and agony that poor Chad must go through every day.

    Take care everyone – really enjoyed reading everyone’s comments.

  180. travelah

    Why is it that people who generally have a strong enmity towards Christianity are also so quick to try to use Jesus (the LORD they reject) against Christians?

  181. “Why is it that people who generally have a strong enmity towards Christianity are also so quick to try to use Jesus (the LORD they reject)against Christians?”

    Because (the Lord they reject) Jesus Christ, his life and his teaching and their exegesis, represents the fundamental philosophical basis of Christian thought and practice.

    If I were a Marxian, I would reasonably expect a critic to refer to Karl Marx at some point during their analysis of my political views. Or if I were a Buddhist, I would not be surprised, or indignant, if a critic of Buddhism compared my own religious views to the standard of Gautama Buddha.

    If it is judged to be ill-considered to measure the authenticity of professed Christian viewpoints and actions in the light of what Jesus Christ himself taught and meant by it, then I would be interested to know why.

  182. Chad Nesbitt


    Hold your horses there Brenier. As I and everybody at the mens club meeting remember, you gave me your tape and said do with it as you will.

    I told you the commercial was going to show just how crazy this town has become. And that’s what we did.

    Your Dr. Dick character was funny and you to showed just how crazy the liberals have become with your antics in the film.

    From the looks of Lady Voldamorts latest letter in the Xpress we were right on target all the time. Like the commercial said “When this town gets to crazy for you. There is alway’s Carolina Stompers!”

    Good luck to you and your efforts.

    Chad Nesbitt

  183. Angel8146

    Chad Nimwitt, I believe her name to be Lady Passion, and I also believe if your going to make derogatory remarks about someone you should have the decency as a Christian, what you claim to be, to atleast call her by her name. That is if you ever wish to be called by yours Mr. Cheesebitts.

  184. travelah

    Tim Peck, it is simply fraudulent to state that those who reject Christ, refer to those before Him and after as crazies and hold a great enmity towards Christians in general have any capability to present a sound exegesis of any scriptural passage. The context is lacking and their basic understanding is utterly flawed.

  185. Nam Vet

    “Neo-socialist liberalism makes suffering contagious by taking from the working people and giving to the lazy.”
    ~ Nam Vet

  186. Nam Vet

    To angel8146:

    “Let her without sin do the first name calling. Thy nastiness is very ungoodly and and unwitchlike. Be a beacon for Wiccanism. Smile that sweet smile that cometh from ‘Goddess Bless’ everyone.”

  187. Rebecca Nelson-Denmark

    I don’t believe I stated that I personally “reject Christ” so let’s try to keep the reading in between the lines at a minimum. Furthermore, I also never stated that I have an enmity towards Christians or Christ. Interesting how you came to THAT conclusion by reading a simple commentary I posted. I believe when I referred to the “the insane radicals that may have come before or after him”…I was referring to those who have taken the basic fundamental teachings of Jesus Christ and grossly distorted them! How about God is Love?!?! It does not say God is a mega church whose congregation must surpass 10,000 members and who must have 1,000 different class options with 5 service times on Sunday morning followed by the optional (but you better darn well be there if you want to get to Heaven) 7 services throughout the week! That is DISTORTED and it is these types of “radicals” I was referring to. Or better still, what about the various periods throughout history where “radicals” were more or less forcing people to convert to this Christian religion?!?!

    In reference to my previous comment a day or so back – it doesn’t seem to me that any gay or lesbian persons have forced their sexual preferences on anyway – in fact I am a firm in believer in the what this particular group of people is asking for is RESPECT and the right to be treated equally – I am darn sure they are trying to force Chad into becoming a homosexual.

    There is nothing wrong if a person wants to believe wholeheartedly in Jesus Christ – that is why we have Freedom of Religion – but it is ridiculous to think that anyone will listen to the words flowing from their mouth if they are not an example of the very one – Jesus Christ – they believe in. Consider this – if I am a card caring member of Peta and am anti-fur – wouldn’t you question my understanding of things if you saw me walking around town in a floor length fox fur coat (head, hands, tail and all attached?!) I would certainly hope so!! It is no different than people questioning Chad and his self proclaimed belief in Jesus Christ.

    Besides – why wouldn’t the Carolina Stompers have a debate with Lady Passion and the rest of Coven Oldenwilde? He may not agree with anything they stand for – but wouldn’t it be somewhat advantageous to at least LEARN about that belief system? Why would not someone want to better educate themselves so when they do make a stance against something they at least know WHAT it is they are making a stance against? (Oh yeah, it’s called common sense.) Lady Passion is obviously very educated, well spoken and has done her research – why wouldn’t the Stompers want to do the same thing? A little understanding and respect goes along way in life. (And just because you learn about someone who is different from you doesn’t mean you have to follow what you have now learned….it just means you are a more, well-rounded person!)

  188. Rebecca Nelson-Denmark

    Couldn’t resist adding these comments into the mix…have you taken a CLOSER look at the Stompers webpage…go there and then click on “Who We Are”…

    Why is the elephant smoking a cigar? I mean seriously – they are supposedly for the Children -why use an icon that is smoking if you are trying to protect Children?! Besides doesn’t the Bible say something about the body is the temple of God so why would you “harm it” by smoking?!?!?!

    The home page on the site talks about doing it for our children – yet click under the “Who We Are” section it depicts images of violence….the first being an elephant towering over a donkey (is that blood on his face?) as if to crush his head and the second being an elephant holding what in my opinion appears to be a small FEMALE person upside and is about to kick her in the head?

    Uhmmm….and on the same page it mentions CHRISTIAN VALUES? ROTFL! OMG.

  189. Fallstaff

    The real travelah just told me you are Light & Hope. A troll by any other name is still a troll. And to steal another person’s moniker is plain lame girly.

    Always in the mood to smackdown a liberal!

  190. Rebecca Nelson-Denmark

    Who is a troll? And who is Light and Hope? Not sure who that comment was directed at, but you need to check again if you are speaking about me…

  191. travelah

    Fallstaff wrote:
    The real travelah just told me you are Light & Hope. A troll by any other name is still a troll. And to steal another person’s moniker is plain lame girly.

    Always in the mood to smackdown a liberal!

    … and I reply …

    Fallstaff, just out of curiosity, where and when did I tell you such a thing?

  192. Fallstaff

    The comment was aimed at the person trying to impersonate “travelah” by putting a capital “T” in front of his pen name. Light & Hope is the one who is the troll and the impersonater.

  193. Ashevegasjoe

    yeah, on this one I agree with Falstaff. I don’t know what’s going on with the “travelahs”, but using similar monikers is ridiculous and I don’t get it. You can hide behind whatever name you want and espouse total b.s. (falstaff), why try and use a facsimile of another? I totally agree with one travelah and can tell the other is a different person with a different point of view. Will the real travelah please stand up!

  194. nam veteran

    AsheJoe, I think travelah decided to let the “T” troll hang herself. Not a bad strategy. He apparently doesn’t want to sink to her level. L&H;, are your ears burning? :)

  195. travelah

    Ashevillejoe, the real “travelah” is me, myself and I. Anybody else attempting to deceive others is using a variation on the name substituting an “e” or an “a” in place of the other. I believe the imposter can be shown to be “Light&Hope;” based on her choice of words, past posts and the timing of her posts (i.e. 4am etc.)Of course, MountainX could verify this by pulling the IP addresses however I am perfectly content to have her continue along with Fallstaff whom I suspect also has a shared IP.

  196. Ashevegasjoe

    travelah, I know I already e-mailed this point to you, but it would be so easy to make up any moniker and say any ridiculous thing you want. Why impersonate people? This seems sophmoric, and generally retarded. It trivializes whatever philosophical point that’s being made, and generally bugs the heck out of me. Come on people, keep it real in this virtual world. People have proven you can get on here and type whatever ridiculous thing you want, and provide no personal info. I just don’t get it.

  197. travelah

    I agree with you. It is sophomoric and immature to engage any discussions in such a manner however this is the internet where anybody can pretend to be somebody they are not. I have chosen to use the “travelah” moniker because I have used it since I first used a version of it on BITNET many years ago. If somebody wishes to imitate somebody else, there is not much I can do about it. I understand that it bugs you and probably does others as well but thats the reason a fool does this in the first place, to irritate people. Knowing that, the fool simply becomes entertaining as expected of a court jester.

  198. Hopefully

    OK, it was I what did it. But I did not intend to impersonate anyone, it was a parody of the trav. Obviously one cannot just take over another’s screen name, it was spelled differently and I assumed anyone would notice the capitol “T” and know it was different. I just could not resist imitating the travelah’s smug, know it all , never wrong , smarmy conservative personality. I mean, he uses every logical fallacy in the book when he makes his arguments. If you’ve been keeping up, you will have noticed he has used the following: (in alphabetical order)

    Affirmation of the Consequent.

    Description: An argument from the truth of a hypothetical statement, and the truth of the consequent to the truth of the antecedent. In the syllogism below, P is the antecedent and Q is the consequent: P implies Q Q is true <-- Affirming the consequent ______________ Therefore: P is true. Argumentum ad Antiquitam. Description: A fallacy of asserting that something is right or good simply because it is old; that is, because "that's the way it's always been." Argumentum ad Baculum (appeal to force). The arguer appeals to force or the threat of force to compel acceptance of the conclusion. Argumentum ad Crumenam. Description: Fallacy of believing that money is a criterion of correctness; that those with more money are more likely to be right. Argumentum ad Hominem (abusive). "The phrase argumentum ad hominem translates literally as 'argument directed to the man.'" The abusive variety occurs when one attacks the other person rather than the other persons argument. . Argumentum ad Hominem (circumstantial). In this case, one tries to convince the opponent to agree to the conclusion based on the opponents circumstances. For example (from Copi), a hunter may claim an anti-hunter must say hunting is acceptable since the anti-hunter is not a vegetarian. Argumentum ad Ignoratiam (argument from ignorance). "The fallacy of argumentum ad ignorantiam is illustrated by the argument that there must be ghosts because no one has ever been able to prove that there aren't any." The argument that something must be true simply because it hasn't been proved to be false, or vice versa. Argumentum ad Lazarum Description: A fallacy of assuming that because someone is poor he or she is sounder or more virtuous than one who is wealthier. This fallacy is the opposite of the informal fallacy "argumentum ad crumenam." Argumentum ad Misericordiam (appeal to pity). The arguer appeals to pity where the conclusion is a matter of reason and not one of sentiment, e.g. referring to a murder suspect's dependent family. Argumentum ad Nauseum. Description: The incorrect belief that an assertion is more likely to be true the more often it is heard. An "argumentum ad nauseum" is one that employs constant repitition in asserting a truth. Argumentum ad Novitam. Description: A fallacy of asserting that something is more correct simply because it is new or newer than something else. Or that something is better because it is newer. This type of fallacy is the opposite of the "argumentum ad antiquitam" fallacy. Argumentum ad Numeram. Description: A fallacy that asserts that the more people who support or believe a proposition then the more likely that that proposition is correct; it equates mass support with correctness. Argumentum ad Populam. "the attempt to win popular assent to a conclusion by arousing the emotions and enthusiasms of the multitude, rather than by appeal to the relevant facts." Argumentum ad Verecundiam (appeal to authority). This is especially the appeal to authority outside the field of that authority's expertise. In the field of the authority's expertise, "this method of argument is in many cases perfectly legitimate, for the reference to an admitted authority in the special field of that authority's competence may carry great weight and constitute relevant evidence. ... Although it does not prove the point, it certainly tends to support it." Accident. "The fallacy of accident consists in applying a general rule to a particular case whose 'accidental' circumstances render the rule inapplicable." For instance, while generally one should not exceed the speed limit, it is acceptable for emergency vehicles to do so. Bifrucation. Description: Also referred to as the "black and white" fallacy, bifurcation is the presentation of a situation or condition with only two alternatives, whereas in fact other alternatives exist or can exist. Complex Question. This is a question of the "Have you stopped beating your wife?" variety. Arguing based on a response, or assumed response, to a complex or "loaded" question, where no simple yes or no response is reasonable -- "have you stopped beating your wife?" "will you vote for the Republicans and prosperity?" Converse Accident (hasty generalization). Making a general rule based on a few atypical cases. For instance, considering the effect of alcohol only on those who indulge to excess, and concluding that liquor is harmful and should be outlawed. Denial of the Antecedent. Description: An argument in which one infers the falsity of the consequent from the truth of a hypothetical proposition, and the falsity of its antecedent. P implies Q Not-P ____________ Therefore: Not-Q. Dicto Simpliciter - Sweeping Generalization. Description: Sweeping Generalization occurs when a general rule is applied to a particular situation in which the features of that particular situation render the rule inapplicable. A sweeping generalization is the opposite of a hasty generalization. Fallacy of Interrogation. Description: The question asked has a presupposition which the answerer may wish to deny, but which he/she would be accepting if he/she gave anything that would count as an answer. Any answer to the question "Why does such-and-such happen?" presupposes that such-and-such does indeed happen. False Analogy. Description: An analogy is a partial similarity between the like features of two things or events on which a comparison can be made. A false analogy involves comparing two things that are NOT similar. Note that the two things may be similar in superficial ways, but not with respect to what is being argued. False Cause. This is mistaking a event to be the cause of some other event. Arguing that one event causes another on the basis merely that it occurs earlier, or more generally mistaking what is not the cause of something as its cause. For instance, arguing that beating of drums causes the sun to reappear after after an eclipse by citing that every time drums have been so beaten the sun has reappeared. Hasty Generalization Description: An argument in which a proposition is used as a premise without attention given to some obvious condition that would affect the proposition's application. This fallacy is also known as the "hasty generalization." It is a fallacy that takes evidence from several, possibly unrepresentative, cases to a general rule; generalizing from few to many. Note the relation to statistics: Much of statistics concerns whether or not a sample is representative of a larger population. The larger the sample size, the better the representativeness. Note also that the opposite of a hasty generalization is a sweeping generalization. Ignoratio Elenchi. Description: An argument that is supposed to prove one proposition but succeeds only in proving a different one. Ignoratio elenchi stands for "pure and simple irrelevance." An argument which supports one conclusion is made to prove a different conclusion. Copi's example is a legislator who, in discussing a housing bill, argues only that decent housing for all is desirable, rather than whether the bill in question would achieve that goal. Non Causa Pro Causa. Description: An argument to reject a proposition because of the falsity of some other proposition that seems to be a consequence of the first, but really is not. Non-Sequitur. Description: An argument in which the conclusion is not a necessary consequence of the premises. Another way of putting this is: A conclusion drawn from premises that provide no logical connection to it. Petitio Principii (begging the question). The conclusion of an argument is contained in one of the premises assumed. Assuming the truth of one's proposal as a premise for the conclusion one is trying to prove. Plurium Interrogationum - Many Questions. Description: A demand for a simple answer to a complex question. Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc. Description: An argument from a premise of the form "A preceded B" to a conclusion of the form "A caused B." Simply because one event precedes another event in time does not mean that the first event is the cause of the second event. This argument resembles a fallacy known as a Hasty Generalization. Quaternio Terminorum. Description: An argument of the syllogistic form in which there occur four or more terms. In a standard categorical syllogism there are only three terms: a subject, a predicate, and a middle term. Red Herring. Description: A fallacy when irrelevant material is introduced to the issue being discussed, such that everyone's attention is diverted away from the points being made, and toward a different conclusion. It is not logically valid to divert a chain of reasoning with extraneous points. Reification. Description: To reify something is to convert an abstract concept into a concrete thing. Reification is a Fallacy of Ambiguity. Reification is also sometimes known as a fallacy of "hypostatization". Shifting the Burden of Proof. Description: The burden of proof is always on the person making the assertion or proposition. Shifting the burden of proof, a special case of "argumentum ad ignorantium," is a fallacy of putting the burden of proof on the person who denies or questions the assertion being made. The source of the fallacy is the assumption that something is true unless proven otherwise. Special Pleading. Description: Special pleading is a logical fallacy wherein a double standard is employed by the person making the assertion. Special pleading typically happens when one insists upon less strict treatment for the argument he/she is making than he or she would make when evaluating someone else's arguments. Straw Man. Description: It is a fallacy to misrepresent someone else's position for the purposes of more easily attacking it, then to knock down that misrepresented position, and then to conclude that the original position has been demolished. It is a fallacy because it fails to deal with the actual arguments that one has made. Tu Quoque - Two Wrongs Make a Right. Description: Two wrongs never add up to a right; you cannot right a wrong by applying yet another wrong. Such a fallacy is a misplaced appeal to consistency. It is a fallacy because it makes no attempt to deal with the subject under discussion. AMBIGUITY. Description: An argument in the course of which at least one term is used in different senses. Also known as equivocation. There are several types of "fallacies of ambiguity," including REIFICATION, EQUIVOCATION, AMPHIBOLY, COMPOSITION, DIVISION, and ACCENTUS. Equivocation. Using the same word in two different senses. A fallacy arising from the ambiguity or multiplicity of possible interpretations of a repeated word or phrase. "An elephant is an animal, therefore a small elephant is a small animal". Amphiboly. Arguing from premises which are ambiguous due to their grammatical construction. An argument whose premises contain statements with grammatical constructions capable of being interpreted in more than one way. Classical example: "if Croesus went to war with Cyrus, he would destroy a mighty kingdom". Based on that advice Croesus went to war with Cyrus and in so doing destroyed a mighty kingdom: his own. Accent. Stressing a word in a sentence which thereby changes the meaning. An argument based on a change in meaning through emphasis or accent. "we should not speak ill of our friends", unaccented, may be valid, while by accenting the last word the implication is added that it may be acceptable to speak ill of others. Similarly, quoting or emphasizing something out of context ("the captain was sober today"). Composition. Attributing to the whole the properties of the parts. Reasoning fallaciously from the attributes of the parts of a whole to the attributes of the whole itself: "all of the parts of this machine are light, therefore the machine itself is light". Or, to infer that what may be said of a term distributively may be said of the term collectively: "a bus uses more gasoline than a car, therefore buses use more gasoline than cars". Division. Attributing to the parts the properties of the whole. The reverse of composition: reasoning from the attributes of a whole to the attributes of its parts, or inferring that what may be true of a term collectively is true distributively. "HP is a very important company; I am an HP employee; therefore I am very important"; "Dogs are frequently seen in the streets; Afghan hounds are dogs; therefore Afghan hounds are frequently seen in the streets". Cum Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc. Description: A fallacy of correlation that links events because they occur simultaneously; one asserts that because two events occur together they are causally related, and leaves no room for other factors that may be the cause(s) of the events. This fallacy is similar to the "post hoc" fallacy. Ergo the endless Argumentum ad Hominem references. I never intended to create confusion, only humor. So, I apologise, even to the travelah for my poor judgement. Also,the "L&H;" and "Traveleh" monikers are to be retired.

  199. Chuck Zimmerman

    To understand the principle of “christianity” the Founders such as Jefferson, John & Samual Adams, Washington(most of the time), etc, can be found here:

    Yet this text, so plainly declaring the doctrine of Jesus that the world was created by the supreme, intelligent being, has been perverted by modern Christians to build up a second person of their tritheism by a mistranslation of the word . One of it’s legitimate meanings indeed is `a word.’ But, in that sense, it makes an unmeaning jargon: while the other meaning `reason’, equally legitimate, explains rationally the eternal preexistence of God, and his creation of the world. Knowing how incomprehensible it was that `a word,’ the mere action or articulation of the voice and organs of speech could create a world, they undertake to make of this articulation a second preexisting being, and ascribe to him, and not to God, the creation of the universe. The Atheist here plumes himself on the uselessness of such a God, and the simpler hypothesis of a self-existent universe. The truth is that the greatest enemies to the doctrines of Jesus are those calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them for the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors.

    The “saved born again” nonsense of zealots like “stompers” was not embraced nor enumerated in OUR Founding. Common Law was. Common Law is also called Natural Law because it is based on this:
    Virginia Declaration of Rights

    I That all men are by nature equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

    XVI That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore, all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other.

    Unfortunetly, biggotted groups like the “stompers” are the polar opposite of what OUR Founders defined “Christianity”.

    From the N.C. Bill of Rights:
    Sec. 13. Religious liberty.

    All persons have a natural and inalienable right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences, and no human authority shall, in any case whatever, control or interfere with the rights of conscience.

    We owe Mountain Express a show of gratitude for allowing the “stompers” to expose themselves for what they are. By their own words they have hung themselves.

  200. I thought this thread dead, so I moved on the discuss comments regarding my Commentary “Who’s Afraid of the Big, Bad Witch?” [not our title].

    How I see some cleanup’s in order…

    Don Yelton:

    I hope by now everyone on this list is aware that you targeted a self-perceived political rival (leader of the Scrutiny Hooligans web site) for slander, using a quote from me as if it were his, and claiming to 24 mediua outlets that he “associated with witches”.

    Shame on you for that and refusing to apologize to me despite my twice having e-mailed you personally for one.

    “what is happening here is someone is not willing to let live.”

    Nope. You know better, Don. You and Chad attacked us in the Xpress — clearly you all are the ones who don’t want to “let live” ;-)

    Richard Bremier:

    Chad’s now twice written that you freely gave him the tape of our protest rite to freely use (I’d say, twist) as the Stompers chose.

    You’ve written otherwise, claiming that they “somehow” got their hands on the tape. Which is it? If you do not respond, I will know that strange as it may seem, perhaps Chad is actually telling the TRUTH about this issue (who’da’ thunk it? ;-)

    Still, a “men’s club meeting” such as Chad mentioned, where Witches are mocked should give readers pause here, as braggadocio often leads to vigilantism…

    Rebecca Nelso-Denmark:

    I agree — the Stompers prove accusations of willful bigotry and contempt for fellow citizens when they insist on continuing to address others via name-calling. This only serves to undermine their credibility and arguments, but it seems habitual, and a reaction they cannot cease…

    Ultimately what I’ve found sorely missing from many of these comments is holding Chad’s feet to the fire for his bad grammar, ad hominem attacks, and diversionary tactics in his Commentary.

    None should be afraid to pick apart his own words… Or is it that it was so poorly written, it seems not worth the bother, or even cruel to try?

  201. R. Bernier


    I have just read what you have written above & I went back to what I wrote to you & a few weeks back.

    Here is a post dated on 4 Feb 2008 (Quote) “Now, as far as footage, I have learned the hard way, the need to copy write my material – mark this one up on being a new member to public access TV”.

    Dixie, Its to a point were the back & forth online does a disservice to your message. I again will plea with you one more time to do a sit down with myself where you can share your thoughts along with my views of that event.

    I am open to this, which again is no way a debate other than just an open invite to share 30mins (one on one) & air the program on URTV.

    Please open your mind up to my offer, as I dont see the need to carry on here on this board in the days ahead. Lets move on & expand in more issues that we all as a communtity need to face in the days ahead.

    Again, I am very open & upfront which im sure you will be also, in the end product will produce a good program for folks to see on public access tv only.


  202. Richard Bernier:

    Again you failed to answer my staightforward question about exactly HOW the Stompers got your footage, and instead, quoted the same vague sentence I’d adked you to clarify in the first place.

    Too bad, this, as your continual hedging does nothing to instil confidence in me regarding your being “open and upfront”.

    Rather, I continue to feel strongly that we shook your hand with all goodly intent at the protest, only to have you betray our trust by letting your friends skew the protest’s meaning to hurt others and further their bigotry.

    I hope this HAS become something you’ve “learned” from. But for whatever reason you let the Stompers have the footage, and despite that you may now regret it, your actions have consequences that a reasonable man who knew all involved should have been able to foresee and avoid.

    Ergo, *Diuvei and I will not be talking with you, but instead, will do an hour show on URTV next Saturday (Matt Howard Live at 5 PM) discussing Witchcraft, the Stompers, and our ongoing magical exploits.

  203. R. Bernier


    I see were you are coming from now Dixie, I was even eager to sit down with Matt & yourself on URTV but was advised by Matt that you would not do this, you REFUSED.

    To me, it seems that you wish to go with like minded people which seems to be the easy way out for you & others.

    I filmed this event due to fact it was open to the public which I didnt need to get your o.k. The manner in which others got the video should not matter, after all it was open public event. Would it matter if the footage would have come from WLOS?

    As far as consequences goes, then you need to address that with yourself & by having it in a public location.

    Im finding that you, Ms. Dixie will not be open to everyone. I dont demand a debate with you, just to open up diffent views which seems not to be the direction you wish to travel.

    Im thinking now that maybe you just like to keep it going & never letting this story go away – just go away because if it does, then you have nothing to talk about.

    If im willing to step up to the plate then whats wrong with you doing the same? You have on your side magical exploits dont you!!

    I will end this story with your remarks on this topic with now over 200 emails that will conclude of your unwillness to meet, even with your “magical exploits” that you may have.

  204. “Dr. Dick” Bremier:

    I have seen the complete initial footage you shot at our protest rite (the one you posted on YouTube under the embarrasingly doubly-misspelled title “Democrat Elain [sp. Elaine] Lite CANIDATE [sp. Candidate] Asheville City Council”.

    Clearly you lied when you wrote earlier that “somehow” the Stompers got hold of it, for how they later edited it couldn’t hold a candle to your bigotry freely expressed throughout this poor-quality video.

    No wonder Elaine was on to you and refused to be interviewed on site! At least I had the good grace to answer your questions. You should’ve repaid my trust in kind, but you did not.

    As for the URTV gig, we do not know Matt, and somehow doubt he is “like-minded”. Ergo, we’ve easily disproved your self-serving insinuation as to our motives for agreeing to appear on his show.

    To sum: We do not deal with liars or anyone who willfully produces poor-quality videos with horrid spelling — the latter which any sensible person could’ve easily prevented by being less hot-headed and more careful in their work.

  205. Angel8146

    Ok, ummmmm besides all the fancy words that my poor little uneducated brain just doesn’t comprehend, I’m still sitting back wondering is there ever going to be an actual debate, or not?? Or are the Stompers just going to keep running??

  206. Don Yelton

    Good job expressing what is going on Richard. Magic is the illusion of power. Also mispelled words come from many things, some of which are attributed to actual inherited physical characteristics which should be accepted by any good wiccan.

    Now there is a great question.

  207. Don: “Now there s a great question.”

    You didn’t actually ASK a question.

    Regardless, magic is not an illusion, but the power most humans, as the Gods’ beloved creatures, are born possessing ;-)

    Sometimes you iron men make me laugh out loud: I mean you talk “love”, but show none; you say global warming and gravity can’t be proven…

    I mean, what’s next? The flat Earth theory? ;-)

  208. Human Caused Global Warming is a lie…
    that last link has some pagans trying to please the sun god…
    And here is a website that focuses on the moving of temperature sensors so they give a higher temp reading…

    And here is a post about the Pacific Decadal Oscillation possibly flipping cold on us…
    And here ia a post on the coldest winter in Greece in a hundred years…
    Plus there are plenty of links at the bottom of that post to all the cold weather.
    And trust me, if Solar Cycle 24 doesn’t get started soon, we could be in for another Maunder Minimum, and you can give all your bikinis away.

  209. quotequeen

    The secret of life is to appreciate the pleasure of being terribly, terribly deceived.
    Oscar Wilde, A Woman of No Importance, Act 3

  210. Alan Ditmore

    Nesbit lives in Leicester and Yelton in Jupiter. so let’s all just get this municipal line drawn and stay on our own side of it, including water.
    And this website is on the Asheville side.
    NO ZONING because zoning is not contraception and therefore not environmental.

  211. Guess many have heard by now on WLOS that the author of this Letter had his closed bar raided for ongoing illegal gambling activities.

    So often those who claim Xtian values cherry-pick which ones to embody (many Xtians consider drinking and gambling a sin). And those who say they work on behalf of children often don’t really seem to (Nebitt’s Stompers web site claims to do this, but not much of carousers’ money goes to feeding or protecting children).

    Bottom line: Those who point fingers at those they consider immoral (Stompers at Witches) often do so to divert attention from their OWN lack of ethics.

  212. quotequeen

    As witnesses not of our intentions but of our conduct, we can be true or false, and the hypocrite’s crime is that he bears false witness against himself. What makes it so plausible to assume that hypocrisy is the vice of vices is that integrity can indeed exist under the cover of all other vices except this one. Only crime and the criminal, it is true, confront us with the perplexity of radical evil; but only the hypocrite is really rotten to the core.
    Hannah Arendt (1906 – 1975), On Revolution (1963)

  213. dada clown

    i don’t think any political party like anarchists, much less the two that are tied to big business.

  214. Piffy!

    Ironic that Bobby Thunderpig Coggins speaks about “Fair Use” for using someone else’ copyrighted material in a video, since he pulled the ‘copyright card’ in order to silence someone who made a satirical take of a video he listed as part of the ‘collective commons’.

    As usual with pretend-conservatives like thunder pig, they dont like to practice what they preach.

    bobby Coggins is a hypocrite.

  215. @pff ??:

    Me a hypocrite? I think that it is just that you have (like all Lefties) little or no reading comprehension skills.

    You don’t have a clue what Creative Commons 3.0 Attribution means.

    It means that you can use the material if you identify in your derivative work where you got the original material from. I did not see title graphics indicating where you got the video, nor was there a link to the original work.

    That also requires you learning how to use a video editor.

    If I had used a simple default copyright, I could not have stopped you.

    I also understand that there was an element of racial or cultural bigotry expressed in the video toward people of a southern ethnicity. I could have pursued damages for that as people could have reasonably assumed I was responsible for that video since there was no identification that it was a derivative work.

    Having an attorney on retainer can be quite helpful at times.

    Have a nice day. ;)

  216. Would that “attorney” also be a local yokel book “publisher,” who knows all the fine details of how to use works in the public domain…add a few sentences at the beginning as a forward, and then claim “authorship” or co-authorship of over 200 books???????????

  217. LOL.

    My attorney was hoping that Lady Passion would follow through with her threat of legal action. So far, people have attempted to bring suit against me six times in the past five years for things I have written or filmed and placed on my main political blog. Not one of them made it as far as court, though. More’s the pity for the dozens of others who were just screeching and beating their chests, never even taking it that far.

    I should probably re-make the video, updating it to include everyone in Asheville. Yall are a bunch of nuts, who seem to use any excuse available to raise a ruckus.

    You’re funny. I imagine Ralph would give me legal advice if I paid him a retainer, or even if I didn’t come to think of it.

    Your little jihad against him is sad, but I suppose it does occupy your time now that you’re not at URTV. I’d hate to think he’d outsmarted me the way he did you and your sidekick. ROTFL.

    But then I’m not in the habit of hiring private investigators or stalking people on online forums, then am I?

    I suppose I should be honored that you’ve joined pff ?? in reviving a two year-old discussion thread on Mtn X.

  218. I didn’t bring up URTV…you did. Sooooo…….

    When people fight as dirty as they do, you have to use every legal means necessary to defend yourself. That is what I did and am now doing. Bobby, you got any proof I hired a private detective? I did hire an attorney…I’ll be the first to admit that.

    Seems like you know who (the great publisher, bilingual intelligence expert, videographer, computer expert, and on and on ad nauseum….can dish it but he sure can’t take it. lol

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