Letter: Demand action to protect immigrant children

Graphic by Lori Deaton

In 1967, my family fled a communist oppressive government and came to this country seeking political asylum, much the same as families are doing right now. Instead of being given the opportunity to build a better and safer life, as my family was, immigrant families are literally being torn apart for political theater. Seeking asylum is not in of itself a crime.

Children’s mental and physical health are being used as a bargaining chip. Parents’ screams and tears are being used as a deterrent to send a message. This administration wants to tell the world that our borders are closed in the harshest and most sadistic manner possible.

The United States has been portrayed as the shining city upon the hill, a beacon of hope to all who wish to make a better life. This administration is extinguishing that light and replacing it with tiki torches. Atrocities are being committed in our name, America.

The decision to leave your country, your home, the place you’ve known all your life because you are terrified of what it has become, of what is happening beyond your control is not an easy one. Can you imagine a future that is so bleak that your best option is to abandon everything and attempt to start over in a foreign land? Do you know what it’s like to live in fear for your or your family’s life? Do you know what it means to have no hope? The desperation that having no hope brings?

These families take the risk because they believe in “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore.” I thought we did, too.

This administration’s zero-tolerance policy is nothing short of a human rights violation. There is no law compelling them to carry out these acts. They are doing it because the fear of an equal mixed-race America is terrifying to them and their supporters. They are doing it to keep white men in power. They are doing it because they can, and no one is stopping them.

You and I need to stop them. We need to protect these children. Demand that your senator sign and support the Keep Families Together Act. Demand that your House representative sign and support the HELP Separated Children Act. Contact local organizations that help immigrants and ask what you can do to help.

If you’ve been disheartened, disenfranchised and dismayed by the slow creeping of tyranny taking over our democracy, stand up and fight for it before it’s too late.

— Adel Alamo



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90 thoughts on “Letter: Demand action to protect immigrant children

  1. boatrocker

    Pre- emptive Uh uh no way.
    The laws in place for zero tolerance illegal immigration are
    unacceptable/unconstitutional/just plain dirty pool.
    For the letter/spirit/conscience of American law.

    Let’s debate whether America has the ‘high road’
    for ethics or conscience, posters, before we are flooded
    with Breitbart ‘news’ links and told any Spanish speaking
    child is pre-destined to get a neck tattoo and join MS-13.
    Otherwise let’s send the Irish back home.

    Please, Anglo.

    • B.E.Vickroy

      DATA that might be of interest to those who are willing to see.

      US Constitution -Article I, Section 8, Clause 4 reads:, “… To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, …”. [uniform rule [s] of naturalization … see the nearest dictionary for definition of ‘establish’, ‘rule’ and ‘uniform’]

      The 14th Amendment, Section 1 addresses the protection of “All persons born or naturalized in the United States,…” [this does NOT include those in our nation illegally]

      “The Refugee Act of 1980” allowed the President the authority to admit refugees on an annual basis, in consultation with Congress. “The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986” addressed unauthorized immigration creating two amnesty programs “legalizing” about 2.7 million people who illegally entered the country.

      Because illegal immigration remained a problem, “The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996” was passed to provide greater controls on the borders.

      The last change occurred with “The Homeland Security Act of 2002” which now has consolidated authority for border protection, naturalization, customs and immigration.

      For up-to-date info on refugees [how many, vetting/screening process, resettlement] .. see WORLD ATLAS

      • bsummers

        Yes, so hard to keep on top of actual facts when spin is the highest priority.

        “The 14th Amendment, Section 1 addresses the protection of “All persons born or naturalized in the United States,…” [this does NOT include those in our nation illegally]”

        Unless you bother to go on & read the entire section:

        “…nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

        SCOTUS has affirmed repeatedly that this means that the Constitutional guarantee of ‘due process’ applies to any “persons” in the US, including those who arrived here ‘illegally’. People ie., human beings, are accorded the basic rights of oh, say, not being rounded up and thrown in a gulag and then sent to another country without having at least a glancing blow at a judge looking at their case & making sure the government isn’t playing fast & loose with everyone’s rights. Is this a great country or what? “Life, Liberty, Etc…”

        The fact that Orange Julius up there doesn’t realize this when he says things like ” When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came.”… that should worry everyone. He’s saying that the US Constitution is wrong, and only he’s right. Very very dangerous.

        • Peter Robbins

          Good catch, Barry. Technically, it’s the due-process protection of the Fifth Amendment that applies here (because the federal government, not a state, is taking action). But the principle is correct, as is your assessment of David Dennison’s legal abilities.

  2. Enlightened Enigma

    Demand that we STOP ALL IMMIGRATION for the next 50 years and allow all to assimilate … !!!

    • B.E.Vickroy

      EE — TOO TRUE TO HAPPEN. In an effort to find something classier than “when pigs fly”, I found this French adage [French always classier] ‘In French, the most common expression is “quand les poules auront des dents” (when hens will have teeth).

      Just for fun — John Steinbeck was told by his professor that he would be an author when pigs flew. When he eventually became a novelist, he started to print every book he wrote with the insignia “Ad astra per alas porci” (to the stars on the wings of a pig). [Latin is even classier than French]
      In Romanian Când o zbura porcul, literally meaning “When the pig shall fly”
      Or the ever popular “when hell freezes over” ,,, ‘On the first [day] of never]’

      Seems a sharp humorous statement to express disbelief that something needed would ever occur, is found in all cultures. Must be universal.

    • luther blissett

      At least you’re no longer claiming it happened in the past when in fact it did not.

      This remains a silly argument, as has been noted by genealogists who pull up the records of anti-immigration types’ ancestors to find that they couldn’t speak English, had criminal records, lied on their naturalization papers, etc. Assimilation happens generationally, always has, always will — and by the time you get to great-grandchildren there’ll even be a few ignorant nativists among them.

  3. B.E.Vickroy

    The conflation of fact with fiction in this letter brings to mind two sayings we all used to know

    “What you don’t know,will hurt you, ignorance is not bliss” & “It isn’t so much what you don’t know that will hurt you. It’s what you KNOW for sure that ISN’T SO that will hurt you. [& and others who may depend on you]

    The writer tells of her family’s fleeing Communist oppression, and coming to the US for refuge.
    I wonder if, in 1967, the number of people claiming refugee status was in the TENS OF THOUSANDS A WEEK?
    Was there then, a thriving “industry” for false credentials?
    Was the refugee status being used by THOUSANDS to bypass legal immigration? [as is, BTW claims of familial relationships]
    Were there drug cartels,willing to do or say ANYTHING to gain entrance?

    And though the logistics in 1967 were different than today, was your family required to be vetted in some way? Were there legal steps to be taken .. court appearances, etc? Surely you didn’t just walk right in with no requirements to be met.

    Only one with incomplete information could say ” zero-tolerance policy is nothing short of a human rights violation. ” The REAL violation of human rights is found in DECADES of politically
    motivated policy acts and omissions too numerous to mention [see my comments on earlier letters for examples]

    Re: “slow creeping of tyranny taking over ” Would that be the tyranny of the [Obama] IRS targeting conservative groups? Would that be the [Obama] EPA declaring that any bit of water on a ranch or farm was “protected”, thus under government jurisdiction [ie stealing the property owner’s use of his land] ?

    Zero tolerance because …” They are doing it to keep white men in power.” Please see the adages at the start of my comments.

  4. B.E.Vickroy

    One violation of human rights,not mentioned in my earlier comments: SEPTEMBER 11 2001, which created a new imperative for national security…. including at the border.

    NEWS FLASH! It is no longer 1967. Nor is it 1986 when Reagan signed an immigration bill that gave amnesty to 3 million illegal aliens in the BELIEF that it would stop illegal in-migration. Instead, it unleashed decades of thousands and millions [now between 11 & 20 mil.] more. These are just a few of the events that force the present border situation. BTW children cry and some die as a result of criminally open/insecure borders.

    • Lulz

      Try 30 to 40 million. The worst part of it all is illegals deflate wages. LIEberals refuse to admit that. They are no friend of any working class person.

    • boatrocker

      Thank fake gawd it isn’t 1967 hey hey how many yellow babies did you kill today with napalm for a MIC war.
      Thank fake gawd it ain’t 1986 running coke up from Central America to fund the CIA’s illegal war and negotiate with Middle Eastern terrorists.
      (Hint- Reagan couldn’t remember).

      Thank fake gawd we agree.
      Here’s some NC values. One outsider guy from KY, one blind guy from Deep Gap, NC right up in heeeeah.

      Bring us something better music wise from the area code where you post from.
      2880 m’fin 3.


    • Stan Hawkins

      The American Progress publication, if you refer to the board of directors listing, is no haven for independent thought in these United States. Nice try though.

      Why not let’s just invite people to obey the law. If they do not like the law, then make a case for changing it at the ballot box. FYI, noted below is the lawful way to enter these United States.


      • Peter Robbins

        The facts speak from themselves, whether you like the messenger or not. On previous threads, Ms. Vickroy said she was having trouble accessing stories published in the New York Times and Washington Post. I was trying to accommodate her by finding a source without a paywall, but the window of links you folks are willing to accept just gets smaller and smaller. Along with your minds.

      • Lulz

        They don’t care about the law. They want to flood the nation with people and then hook them on subsidies. Free healthcare especially. Make them eligible to vote and you have the next generation of democrat majority voters. The loons need new voters because their anti US citizen policies are bleeding them anyone who works a job. They are nothing more than traitors to every American who believes in national sovereignty. Again, these illegals are responsible for low wages, higher welfare, higher healthcare costs, higher taxes, and higher crime.

        • luther blissett

          “Again, these illegals are responsible for low wages, higher welfare, higher healthcare costs, higher taxes, and higher crime.”

          Untrue on all counts. But it’s an easy target for the “handouts but only for white people” crowd while their corporate overlords continue to pick their pockets and claim benevolence by letting workers eat the scraps.

        • B.E.Vickroy

          Stan — OMG … our Congress [aka the sapless branch] should copy that and replace ‘American’ with “foreign national” But if they did, the outcry would probably trigger that Yellowstone super-volcano. KAPOW! Complete with Biblical citations [out of context] and references to poetry [“….huddled masses”] and comparing Nazi persecution/torture/murder to our necessary vetting of thousands [at a time] border crossers in violation of our national sovereignty.

      • Peter Robbins

        As for the law, let’s indeed see if the Trump Administration will follow it. It has announced a discontinuation of the family-separation policy, though it is doing a poor job of reuniting families. So that policy is off the table. A consent decree currently says that kids cannot be kept in detention longer than 20 days. Assuming the Administration’s request to modify the decree is rejected, it will have to find a way to release families after 20 days and get them to return for the asylum hearings to which they are entitled by law. Since there are proven means (case-management, ankle bracelets, etc.) for accomplishing this result (which the Administration irrationally discontinued), there should be no problem getting things on track.

        And do get up to speed. The law and the enforcement discretion of government agents are entirely different things. No law mandated the “zero tolerance” fiasco cooked up by this incompetent Administration last May. They reacted without thinking things through, and now they are paying the price.

        • Stan Hawkins

          My speed is just fine thank you, however, I see no resolution to securing our border and stopping this fiasco in any of the liberal think tanks. So, check your odometer just a bit.

          Secure our border, obey the law, and resist the delegitimization of conservative ideas. Now that would be getting “up to speed & broadening the mind”


        • B.E.Vickroy

          Peter — in reply to “They reacted without thinking things through”. To WHAT did they react?

          • Peter Robbins

            To the President’s fantasies (or deliberate lies) about drug dealers and terrorists posing as asylum seekers on their way through Mexico. I trust I don’t need a link for that one.

    • B.E.Vickroy

      Peter — FYI the source for your article is hardly un-biased.

      Just wondering, in the caravan [crossing the safety of Mexico and with that nation’s assistance] storming our borders, claiming refugee status, do you think it is possible that some unsavory characters might pose as refugees? How should we sort that out?

      We admit thousands of refugees [after vetting] each year, through legal channels. Do you imply that ANYONE and EVERYONE who is fleeing from economic deprivation, violence, oppression due to sexual orientation, etc should be admitted with little or no oversight? The world is full of injustice, oppression, criminals, etc. What would be the limit on how many may come?

      Are the millions of desperate people ‘Admirable’? Of course! “In every avalanche each beautiful snow flake pleads innocent” –individual snowflakes [& refugees] are indeed beautiful [admirable],but an avalanche is generally found to be harmful/destructive. And tens of thousands a week, overwhelming our NECESSARY vetting process, constitute harm to our national sovereignty , our people, our ‘rule-of-law’ culture …. indeed, the safety and security of our own citizens.

      • Peter Robbins

        We “sort that out” in immigration hearings. Please read the many articles on these points to which I linked on earlier threads. I’m sure you can find a library to help you beat the paywalls if you can’t afford subscriptions to the papers I cited. I can’t make you see the other side of this question. I can only point the way. Have a nice day.

        • B.E.Vickroy

          Peter – we will not agree. “Nice day” acknowledged and returned.

          • B.E.Vickroy

            I feel sorry for the poor moderator of this thread. Good practice if you want to put ‘one-armed-paper-hanger’ on your resume :)

        • Stan Hawkins

          Thanks for the NYT article. While I would need several other sources to confirm much of what they say, I have deferred to your wishes and will consider the entirety of the content,

          As a first glance – two things trouble me at the outset. One, this sounds much like catch and release. Two, the article states that only 80% were in compliance for their final asylum hearing and removal who did not qualify. It is that other 20% that disturbs me, where are they at, who are they? And a footnote, the article did mention something, as I cringe, about more “government funded lawyers.”

          My great granny would have wanted me to score better than an 80% on most anything I endeavor to put to task. But, I have to give you praise for thinking in terms of finding ways to do things cheaper.

          I bid you a good evening.

          • Peter Robbins

            Like the author of the Times piece, I have no problem with giving law enforcement the “resources it needs to go out and arrest and deport” any relatively small percentage of people who might ignore a deportation order after going through the immigration process. (I’m not sure why this would be difficult if the asylum seeker were wearing an ankle monitor.) There are smart ways to enforce laws and there are stupid ways — and the Trump Administration has chosen the stupidest, zig-zaggiest, most incoherent way imaginable. As a great man once said: Sad!

  5. Stan Hawkins

    The NYT’s piece fails to report that its’ source for much of the data reported advocates against the use of ankle bracelets for monitoring not legal immigrants. Instead, the use of community based groups are proposed to fill that role along with voluntary reporting to ICE, which now the progressives want to abolish. See below:


    There are numerous problems with this issue that neither liberals or conservatives have an appetite for. Among the many, I would be concerned about a dependence on a bloated bureaucracy (think IRS abuses, think law enforcement propensity to “silo protect”, think lawyers don’t get paid unless there is something to litigate, think 9/11) to get the job done.

    Why would a large number of folks want to ride on top of a train for many hundreds of miles in the hot sun of Mexico to arrive at the US border seeking asylum? Why would the country of Mexico allow that to happen? Why would they not just show up at one of the many embassies or consulates in Mexico? See just below:


    The problem of unlawful entry into the United States will never be solved unless incentives are provided to guide people towards lawful methods and procedures. Unless one is for that, and speaks just as much about that as they do for humanitarian concerns, then we can only presume you are not in sync with the majority of the US population that wants a secure border. And this perhaps is the root cause of this problem and why we have strong opinions on each side of the issue.

    I will say, yes there is a humanitarian crisis of our own making over many years of a failure to focus on the root causes. I fear we will pay dearly for this and pray not in a 9/11 kind of way.

    • Peter Robbins

      If you hadn’t turned up your nose at the “biased” link I offered above, you would know that asylum applications from the strife-torn Northern Triangle countries (El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala) have increased 1,500 percent from 2011-2017 in Costa Rica, Belize, Nicaragua and Panama. So people are fleeing to safer countries, not simply migrating to the United States for economic reasons.

      • Stan Hawkins

        Although you presume, I held my nose while I read that piece from Podesta and company. Yes, there is strife and there always will be. I am on the side of sorting out who is who, and who we deem eligible before crossing the border. And, before we lose track of the 21% not eligible.

        Now that Mexico will have a leftist President, perhaps we can all breath easier that he will have counselors, lawyers, and community organizers providing guidance to US and OTHER country consulates for lawful methods and procedures to seek out the help needed.

        As always, thanks.

        • Peter Robbins

          Who said we lost track of anyone? The opinion piece said that nearly 100 percent of asylum seekers showed up for hearings and that 80 percent voluntarily complied with deportation orders. In a pilot project. Whose techniques can be improved with experience.

    • Peter Robbins

      And an orderly system of asylum adjudication does not include threatening children with indefinite detention or with separation from their parents. Not in my America.

      • Stan Hawkins

        As a conservative, I would just appreciate a heads up on when the leftist keep moving the goal post. First, we don’t want to be policeman to the world, now we want to be policeman, counselor, judge, etc. to Latin America’s deprived. First we abhor the police tactics of law and order, mass surveillance, unlawful search and seizure, now we are okay with hooking up thousands to this type of monitoring. That does not seem very humanitarian. And yes, now we defend the grand pillars of law and order found in Washington DC. I can’t wait until the next 180.

        Venezuela is crumbling before our very eyes in a corrupt socialist experiment. Most knew how that story would end, yet did nothing except shake the hand of the tyrant. We tried exporting our sacred American jobs to Mexico and Latin America, and now we find that the socialists / tyrants, while taking a toke, want to export their problems to our borders while we retrain our jobless to be humanitarian aid or security workers. Whoever drew that plan up is, well words cannot describe.

        Ross Perot was right, the “giant sucking sound” enacted by our misguided has wrought untold consequences, many we have yet to identify I suspect. I will end with a line from Bob Dylan, “the times they are a changing.”

        Kind regards

        • B.E.Vickroy

          Though much attention is being given to illegal in-migration as a reason for a secure border. And a BIG reason it IS. – Another is just as big for the folks who have been ‘touched’ by the trade in illicit drugs. 46% of Americans have a relative or close friend who is or has been addicted to drugs.

          How do you suppose those folks respond to a PROMISE [haven’t seen it yet, and have lied to B4] of more secure borders? Well, speaking as one of those 46%, this sweet old Sunday School teacher, Montessori teacher, who has loved and tutored immigrants [adult & children]- speaking for me,– the dishonest, contrived, OUTRAGE over the orchestrated events at the border are just so much sound-without-sense. Nearer to me are my own well-remembered cries of anguish and despair , as well as the looks of FEAR & bewilderment in the eyes of young family members.

          There is no doubt that REAL people are being swept up in REAL events … just as REAL to them as my own REAL history with open borders is to me. But if all reason gets swept up in these events, NO REAL effectiveness will result. The tears of the 46% as well as those in today’s events, will disappear into the din of another contrived crisis. And more REAL people will suffer more REAL consequences. BTW .. I have scant hope that my words will resonate with those who find my comments “senseless babble”.

          *Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. Martin Luther King, Jr. ///// * Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. G B Shaw ///// * Ignorance, the root and stem of all evil. Plato ///// * Better be ignorant of a matter than half know it. PUBLILIUS SYRUS /////
          * Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace. Dalai Lama

        • luther blissett

          “First, we don’t want to be policeman to the world, now we want to be policeman, counselor, judge, etc. to Latin America’s deprived.”

          Maybe you’re not old enough to remember Guatemala — enjoy your Chiquita bananas! — but you presumably remember Iran-Contra or the Grenada invasion or even Hillary Clinton giving the green light to the Honduran coup in 2009. Monroe Doctrine, y’all.

          And the NRA’s resistance to any laws to track guns is an ongoing gift to the narcos.


  6. boatrocker

    Not much has changed since the 1930’s in ‘Murica I guess.


    Funny how the same anti immigrant rhetoric even applied to legal citizen/Okies during the
    Great Depression. You know, The Grapes of Wrath, or that book that some only pretended to read in high school and used Cliffnotes to pass the quizzes.

  7. B.E.Vickroy

    Mike Diaz, a Chula Vista, Calif. council member who as a child legally immigrated with his family to the U.S. from Mexico said in response to those who want to abolish ICE …. “I think most Americans believe that we need laws and that there should be a process for getting here legally” .
    [OMG can you imagine that a man who holds these views could be elected to the city council of a city with 58% Latinos?] maybe sitting 7 miles from the border gives a different perspective

    Chula Vista CA [58.6% Latino] [Southern San Diego county] [7.5 miles from US-Mexico border]

    • Phillip Williams

      Funny how Mr. Rocker points to the 1930’s and the 1948 Los Gatos plane crash – especially when you consider who was President from 1933-1945 and from 1945-1952. Nothing new under the sun, yet so many folks act like the current administration and their supporters invented all unfavorable policies towards immigrants…..

  8. B.E.Vickroy

    BALTIMORE — Two dozen members of the MS-13 gang have been indicted on federal charges of conspiracy to participate in racketeering related to murders, kidnapping, extortion and money laundering that the gang carried out from 2015 until 2017, federal prosecutors announced Friday.

    The defendants are accused of murdering five people in Anne Arundel, Frederick and Montgomery counties. Three of the victims were DISMEMBERED.

    But, they are not ANIMALS. And if a few of these folks get past the chaos of vetting at the border, well, what harm can a FEW do? [unless it is your family member who is DISMEMBERED]

  9. Stan Hawkins

    This thread shines a light on the fact that leftists do not want to talk about a secure border. Good luck with that at the ballot box.

    • luther blissett

      “Good luck with that at the ballot box.”

      If you’re arguing that voters become more ignorant of the immigration system and border enforcement the further they are from the actual border, you may be right, but I’m not sure if you want to feel proud about it.

      • Stan Hawkins

        Just to be clear. I surmise that the more leftist ignore border security and enforcement of the lawful processes of entering the US, the more mothers, fathers, grandmothers, and grandfathers will vote for who ever is not ignoring that issue.

        In other words, if I have a broke arm along with a major artery bleeding, I will choose to stop the bleeding first then tend to broke arm. Cows out of barn – close barn door, etc. etc.

        If you suggest that Ashevillians are ignorant of this issue, then I would invite you to make a case for what is wrong with enforcing our border and lawful means of entry. I don’t seem to be able to get anyone on the liberal side of this issue to make their case on this question. The moms, dads, grandmas, grandpas, and others who care and who vote will remember where you stand on that issue.


        • B.E.Vickroy

          Fellows – Please consider that immigration issues are also EDUCATION issues, as that is the first point of contact for most citizens with immigration.
          ——-Even in states where the total number of English Language Learners [ELL] is not high, it is often the case that the impact on schools is felt most keenly in small rural districts. So folks in those districts might take more interest in immigration issues than city folks. And if they do raise concerns, they will be written off as ignorant, ethno-phobic, yokels. [been there]
          —–below are links and fact-bits that you might find interesting.
          ELL data for North Carolina
          ELL data by state
          ELL for all states
          =====BITS AND PIECES OF INFO
          Spanish was the home language of 3.7 million ELL students in 2014–15, representing 77.1 percent of all ELL students and 7.6 percent of all public K–12 students. Arabic, Chinese, and Vietnamese were the next most common home languages
          ELLs are the fastest-growing student population in the country, growing 60% in the last decade, as compared with 7% growth of the general student population ( 2013 )
          …Midwest and Southeast, have seen a dramatic increase in the numbers of ELL students enrolled statewide in the past decade. For example, in 11 states, the ELL population growth has increased in recent years by more than 200%, and in some cases 400% (Indiana) or even 800% (South Carolina). Other states with recent dramatic growth include Delaware, Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia, Kentucky, Ohio, Tennessee, Alabama, and Arkansas (Batalova and McHugh, 2010a).
          there were five states where Spanish was not the primary language: Alaska (Yupik), Hawaii (Ilokano), Montana (German), Maine (Somali), and Vermont (Nepali)
          While some ELLs are immigrants and newcomers to this country, the majority of ELLs enrolled in U.S. schools are born in the U.S. and as such, they are American citizens

          • B.E.Vickroy

            I know, …. waaay more info than you want …. but staying with the education stats;
            NC percent of ELL students is more than 25 other states.
            NC 6.7% — CA 23.2% — AZ 7.5% — TX 14.9% — NM16.1%
            NC teacher allocation: 1 to 20

        • luther blissett

          (What is it with using “leftist” singular? Is this something you’ve all been encouraged to do in your chain email forwards?)

          Given that the nearest international border to WNC is the bridge from Detroit to Windsor, and the foreign-born population of Buncombe County is 5.5%, it’s hardly a reach to suggest that most of your dear old grannies and grandpas form their opinions based on second- and third-hand information. There’s a stark correlation between “not having much contact with immigrants” and anti-immigrant sentiment and the willingness to believe untruths about border issues.

          What the debate requires is a degree of honesty from voters at large: when conservatives call for prison laborers to replace migrants in fields, they’re admitting that they want cheap produce but aren’t willing to work in the fields, sleep in dorms and travel wherever the harvest takes them.

          I tend to agree with this piece:


          North Carolina bans the purchase and firing of aerial fireworks, roman candles and bottle rockets, and has a strict permitting process for displays. South Carolina does not. North Carolina has an open border with South Carolina. We know what that will mean tomorrow, and Mission’s ER will be prepared. Should NC take a zero-tolerance approach to illegal fireworks, with checkpoints on the state line, raids on cookouts, incarceration for people holding backyard displays? I assume you’d consider that dumb and expensive and that law enforcement resources should be concentrated on those using illegal fireworks in a reckless or deliberately harmful way.

          Finally, gun enthusiasts tend to get very huffy when they believe gun control supporters are insufficiently versed in the technicalities of their hobby, and argue that gun control arguments are emotive ignorance, and yet don’t see a problem with Grandma Mabel’s groundless fear of MS13 driving her vote on immigration and border security.

          • Stan Hawkins

            Oddly enough, I have made that border crossing from Detroit to Windsor and back during my business traveling days. Even then, I had to show a drivers license. More recently, while traveling across the border at International Falls, MN, I had to produce a passport both ways and got checked for too many trout crossing back in.

            I appreciate your efforts at making a case and I read that article. Mostly it seems bias to me and has a laissez faire approach to at least enforcement of US entry laws and processes. Still, I believe you underestimate the sense of urgency even Western North Carolinians feel about this issue.

            For the record, I did not assert that leftist (old baseball term) advocate open borders, however your (if you are liberal, lefty, left wing, etc.) lack of vigor or even speaking about making a case for what is wrong with simply enforcing the US Entry laws seems to leave you open for that criticism. Your analogy of NC vs SC border to the US / Mexico or Canada border further shines a light on the lack of vigor on this issue.

            Finally, I don’t ask anymore from anyone than what would be asked of me crossing the border at Mexico or Canada. Now, why is it so difficult for liberals to agree with that statement?

          • luther blissett

            “I believe you underestimate the sense of urgency even Western North Carolinians feel about this issue.”

            I don’t doubt that they have feelings. Based on what, though?

            “Your analogy of NC vs SC border to the US / Mexico or Canada border further shines a light on the lack of vigor on this issue.”

            You’ll need to explain why. State control at the edges of a jurisdiction is always on a continuum, even in police states. That applies to national borders, state lines, and the liquor store just across from a dry county. Resources are not infinite. In the days when the southern border was less militarized, migrant workers would stay for the season and then return south, instead of settling.

            “Now, why is it so difficult for liberals to agree with that statement?”

            Ask the legal immigrants who have to deal with a bureaucracy Kafka would find absurd. Ask the asylum seekers who were denied access to ports of entry by CBP. Ask the farmers and fishermen and beachfront restaurant owners who fight over the 66,000 H2-B visas available for seasonal work every year.


            Conservatives need to be honest with themselves.

  10. B.E.Vickroy

    OMGosh …… one of the commenters on this thread has JUST revealed that people – even US citizens – have been treated unfairly/unjustly before, even GASP! TODAY! And by all means, because of past bad behavior on the part of government and private citizens we should just throw up and our hands, lower our eyes in shame, and slink away from all efforts [however faulty] [perfection or nothing, right?] to enforce our borders. Come on in – DRUGS, GANGS, PROSTITUTION, IDENTITY THEFT, TERRORISTS — Never mind – the evil US has no moral/ethical/legal legs to stand on. Borders are passe and enforcement is evil. *N*O*T*

  11. B.E.Vickroy

    Excerpts from article by Jonathan Fielding, M.D., professor of public health and pediatrics at UCLA titled “Chickenpox shows how unprepared we are at the border”
    ———Diagnosis of chickenpox at Victorville puts into stark relief our government’s responsibility toward those whom they detain or deport and all those with whom they interact. It also raises questions about how screening and treatment decisions are being made for our detainees, and what exactly is being done to protect public health.

    These can have adverse health effects on new entrants into the U.S., but also the much wider circle of their contacts. The crowding of 800 Victorville workers with 1,000 detainees creates perfect conditions for the transmission of communicable diseases. Stress and poor nutrition further increase that risk. ——Refugee screenings in California give us a glimpse of what public health officials face. From 2014-2017, approximately 70,000-85,000 refugees resettled in the United States annually; California receives 15 to 17 percent

    California’s screening results show that nine percent of refugees were infected with tuberculosis, 18.6 percent suffered from dental caries, and nearly 28 percent of refugees from African nations suffered from schistosomiasis. [CDC: Schistosomiasis, also known as bilharzia, is a disease caused by parasitic worms. Although the worms that cause schistosomiasis are not found in the United States, more than 200 million people are infected worldwide.]

    Reference –

    • Peter Robbins

      This article discusses the health dangers arising from long-term detention of asylum seekers and their children. Isn’t that the detention policy which the Trump Administration is trying to pursue?

      • B.E.Vickroy

        Peter – With all the chaos at and around the borders, it is difficult to tell just what is happening, what is intended, what is meant, what might, and what ought to happen. And I believe that these events are not accidental, nor without a purpose.

        From things that I do know, let me extrapolate into the current situation.
        (1) An often-use ruse used by drug cartels is to set fires or send in sacrificial groups … both methods distract the Border Patrol from one area, making crossing at another point possible.
        —– [A] Is it not in the realm of the possible that these same bad-actors have [with the help of hosts of greedy, corrupt, & unwitting tools] organized this rush to the border? Under cover of the chaos created, as our nation attempts to do the right thing for refugees, while at the same time protecting our citizens– under that cover, might some of the bad-actors creep in unawares?

        (2) Please note this info about one of the men who bombed the World Trade Center in 1993 :
        —– Mahmud Abouhalima overstayed a tourist visa, becoming an illegal alien, and later received amnesty under the 1986 Immigration and Reform and Control Act (IRCA), by falsely claiming to be an agricultural worker even though he worked as a cab driver. Given the limited resources of the INS, it was not possible to investigate or even verify the stories of the millions of people who applied for amnesty. …..it was only after he received his green card in 1990 that he made several trips to Pakistan, where he received combat training. The legal status he acquired as a result of the 1986 amnesty is what made his training by al Qaeda possible.
        —–[B] Is it stretching credulity to think that the present chaos and the possible political changes to come as a result will enable other such bad-actors to game the laws and use overwhelmed resources to enable another terrorist to enter?
        —–Please read the bios of the other terrorists at link below… I had forgotten most of these details. Under present circumstances, they are chilling.
        —–If long-term detention is what it takes to keep our nation safe, then so be it. There is blame enough to go around as to the reasons why so many millions are so desperate. But this is now, and these are the circumstances with which we must deal.

        Well, as usual I’ve gone on for much too long …. I’ve been fighting this battle for many years, and we are either nearing the beginning of a solution or setting into action things that have the potential to bring down the Constitutional rule-of-law that makes possible all the blessings we take for granted

        • Peter Robbins

          Okay, let’s end with this: Family separation is dead because the President killed it. Fuggedaboutit. Long-term detention of children is unlikely to pass due process, so that option is almost certainly dead, too. What does that leave if not a policy of releasing asylum seekers under a case-management/electronic tracking system that ensures the maximum number practicable show up for their hearings? I appreciate your concerns about unregulated immigration. But they do not solve the practical problem at hand.

          • B.E.Vickroy

            Well, heartfelt arguments … sometimes attempt to be rational, other times no attempt at all. But all show how intense this issue is …. stretching way beyond today’s events at the border …. seems assured to be one of the HOT issues in mid-term and presidential elections. Though much of what Trump says and how he says it, makes me cringe …. the subject is now HOT in communities far and wide. Unlike when ever so polite Bush and Obama smoothed over the issue with ‘REASONABLE’ “statesman like” words. Jude 1:16 “……mouths speaking great swelling words…..” Chinese proverb “Water keeps the boat afloat, but can also sink it.” ….. source unknown “We cannot live without water, but too much at once will kill us” moderation …. so reasonable a goal….so hard to reach

          • Stan Hawkins

            The answer to your question would obviously be to deal with the current illegal entrants and asylum seekers in a most humane way. This I think we can agree on.

            The second part of the answer would obviously be to correct what causes the problem of which failure to enforce US law ranks highly. This along with an intelligent and coherent foreign policy with our Central American neighbors and their dismal record on human rights and continuity of government.

            To be sure, attacking the problem at both ends is necessary to resolve the current symptoms of the real problem we see played out in the media. Remember, this is only the symptom of the real problem of unlawful entry into the US. The American people are the ones who gets to decide how they want their border secured if at all. Let’s hope they decide well after provided the facts.

            The strategy of liberals to abolish ICE, allow sanctuary cities, DNC leadership agitation, and off the rails congressional agitation promoting socialism tends to stoke some backbone in folks. This, all while being aligned with the progressive media that you so kindly provide links to seems a bit over the top. Particularly since the author of last link you provided suggest that the whole problem is blown out of proportion. To suggest that liberals have no part in that is a bit generous.

            Other than that, this citizens is thankful for the many NC volunteers fighting Cornwallis and company, including my ancestors with the Over The Mountain Men. Thus we can freely debate these issues. Happy 4th.

  12. B.E.Vickroy

    Peter — sorry, didn’t notice …. just say that we are each working from different sets of information. We both share outrage/sorrow at the distress of some at the border. But part company at that point . Much has been said on both sides. With all good will, let’s part on cordial terms.

    • Peter Robbins

      We are parting on cordial terms. The discussion was great fun and I enjoy a feisty exchange. But that’s beside the point. The reason you have no answer to the final question I posed is not because we are working with different sets of information nor is it because you or others lack the smarts to figure one out. It’s because there is no answer. Trump was forced to cave on family separation because it was unacceptable to the American conscience, and he has no “Plan B” that comports with due process because, as usual, he didn’t think his “bold” policy through. That’s what comes of having a President who prefers television to reading, loves simple answers to difficult questions, and accords to his gut a degree of wisdom that a diet of fast food cannot sustain.

      Catch you next time.

      • B.E.Vickroy

        Peter — :) Si, pero, [as Tevia would say] por otra parte – vaya con dios – hasta la proxima
        [Yes, but, as Tevia would say, on the other hand – go with God – until me meet again]

    • B.E.Vickroy

      Stan –
      Re; You say ” The American people are the ones who get to decide how they want their border secured if at all. Let’s hope they decide well after provided the facts. ”
      A: I don’t know how this can be done. I’ve seen decades of attempts to provide facts to the people and to their representatives. In most cases, misinformation drowns-out the facts. [think MSM] Which is pretty much what we see today in the din surrounding the border chaos.

      For many years I attended meetings of the BORDER SOLUTIONS TASK FORCE .. members included the man who served 8 years as US Attorney for San Diego, another who was Chief Officer for the Border Patrol for the SouthWest. In other words, not pitchfork wielding joe-6-packs. But serious-minded, thoughtful problem solvers.
      I worked with NUMBERS USA — going to DC to lobby and testify at Congressional hearing – again, all serious-minded folks. No sensation-seekers, no hate-mongers.
      THE CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES – studious think tank. Fact-based reports and analysis.
      The former mayor of San Diego held HOLD THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE rallies to force Congress to secure our borders.

      Well, you get the idea …. the powers-that-be [big $$ to be made in the use and abuse of this issue and the people caught up in its grasp] pull no punches to smear the people who want secure borders, to obfuscate the issue until it seems too large for mere mortals to manage. [think political donations]

      What is happening at our borders is beyond horrible. But it is being orchestrated, managed, and manipulated by those with an agenda that is nothing short of erasing our borders. This might not be the man-created crisis that will do the trick. But the next one or the next one surely will.

      Do I think that Trump is the best man to handle this mess? Well, mealy-mouthed, statesman-like presidents have done NOTHING but paste one quick-fix after another over the problem. To his credit, Trump is a no-holds-barred street fighter. [think Teddy Roosevelt] To his detriment, his tactics too often seem to cancel out what he has promised to achieve. [think Harry Truman]

      The missteps and ham-handed efforts of this administration are put into high 24/7 focus by a media that ignored similar policies and some pretty serious missteps [think Ms Clinton] in other administrations. And they have ginned-up hysteria we haven’t seen for a long time. [think Vetnam]

      The heat and steam generated in the this forum demonstrated how polarized we are. Over the years, I’ve been called names, spit upon, threatened, had my tires slashed and my home egged. My mentor and friend, Jesse Laguna had to have police escort to speak on a campus. And today’s self-righteous, media-empowered, demonstrators seem ready to do far more than that.

        • B E Vickroy

          Luther — Whatever the origins of funding for NUMBERS USA and FEDERATION FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM …. and CARRYING CAPACITY NETWORK –I challenge you to find the slightest such radical stance regarding eugenics, white nationalist, and antisemitism. From many years of working with these folks … among my pals were Chinese, Peruvian, Mexican,immigrants … gay and straight … Atheist, Christian, Jews … Nationalism? That is not a dirty word to me … but the ‘white’ part would come as a surprise to the multi-racial members in these groups…..Those labels are totally immaterial to the task at hand – more secure borders and immigration at sustainable levels.

          BTW you DO know that PLANNED PARENTHOOD started out with eugenic goals of cleansing mental deficients and other handicaps, as well at the negro race.[their words, not mine] As much as I disagree with their mission, I think that their beginnings are far removed from their present mission.

          • luther blissett

            Planned Parenthood has repudiated its (distant) past. Tanton is still alive, the Colcom Foundation is still bankrolling the organizations he founded, and his acolytes have not repudiated him and still happily cite explicit white nationalists like Steve Sailer and Peter Brimelow. The path from “we’re full” to blood-and-soil nationalism is very clear.

  13. B E Vickroy

    Peter Unfortunately, the “actual problem at hand” is neither simple nor easily solved. The sheer numbers make ‘easy & simple’ impossible to achieve. CONSIDER: 35,000 a month just at the TX Rio Grande Valley border. This sector expects to receive 90,000 lone children and teens this year. That does not include those who come with a parent.
    MUCH more info in The Daily Beast article. https://www.thedailybeast.com/hundreds-of-immigrants-are-rushing-the-border-just-to-get-caught

    Among the reasons for the current flow of families & children over the border can be traced to the sophisticated smuggling networks who’ve found a loophole in the US’s broken immigration system. These families are acting at the behest of their cartel-sponsored guides, who are exploiting a ‘new client base’. They just take them to the border and say “run toward that guy”[BP]

    These thousands are taught by their guides what to say in order to ‘game’ the system. If, as this article states, the drug-cartels are underwriting most of these thousands, one can surmise that it is not from humanitarian motives. Overwhelming an already challenged system is a good tactic for those bad-actors who have unpleasant plans.

    • Peter Robbins

      Irrelevant. The article to which you linked says precisely nothing about separating families or about managing caseloads so as to ensure that asylum seekers show up at hearings. It’s about drug smugglers creating diversions with unaccompanied children to help the smugglers sneak across the border at other locations. That, I presume, could happen with or without family separations and with or without (the constitutionally suspect) long-term detention of children. Indeed, the drug smugglers, I presume, could tell children that they are dead if they don’t cross the border, regardless of the government policies that await them on the other side. So, there isn’t even any deterrent value in a nasty-as-possible policy. You prove too much.

      • B E Vickroy

        Peter — sorry to not be clearer with my arguments. The sheer number of persons at the border [immigrant, refugee, asylum seeker] [each requiring differing processing] is in and of itself a recipe for CHAOS.

        Trying to function fairly, humanely, and prudently within that chaos is hard enough …. but add to those difficulties, the social & electronic media’s misrepresentation of both the actual handling of those numbers, but also the MOTIVES underlying the treatment, which gins up a uproar which just makes the matter worse.

        Did you note the statement made that many of these bus and train caravans are being funded by drug cartels? That is EXACTLY the point at which including such concerns into the discussion is entirely relevant.

        • Peter Robbins

          Again, all you’re doing is giving another reason why asylum seekers are vulnerable to exploitation by powerful and unscrupulous forces — a condition I certainly don’t dispute and, indeed, a condition that is the basis for their claims to asylum in the first place. But all that says precisely nothing about how families should be treated when they are across the border and are awaiting a hearing. The danger of drug smuggling, while real and serious, does not suspend the Constitution nor should it suspend our values as a nation about how to treat children and families. The bad guys always have an advantage over the government good guys because the bad guys can exploit and kill in a manner the good guys can’t. The solution is not to become bad guys ourselves. At least that’s how I feel about it.

          • B E Vickroy

            Peter — thanks for your patience…..The fact is — born out by experience – that SOME of those making a claim for amnesty …. are simply ‘gaming’ the system. Though they may hopefully be sorted out from the REAL amnesty claimants — that added element of risk requires that more time and attention be given to ALL claimants – thus creating more time and more need to hold people.

            As an example of the use made by terrorists to ‘game’ another chaotic situation… and why it is not wise to allow deliberate overwhelming of a system to increase the risk of horrific events.
            —-In 1986, when the estimated 1 million illegals morphed into 3 million who had to be processed for amnesty. Because of the overload to the system, some people lied about their qualifications, gained amnesty and then got a green card and then joined with others [who also took advantage of the dysfunctional system] to bomb the WORD TRADE CENTER in 1993. 6 deaths, 1042 injured.

            That is just one – and the most egregious – example of the harm done when a system is overloaded to a point of being ineffective. Of course 9/11/01 is another not-to-be-forgotten event.

            Do the extra screening of tens of thousands make us look by the bad guy to the world? Our slip-shod immigration enforcement gave us both WORLD TRADE CENTER tragedies. I am of the opinion that many folks would rather be thought to be ‘bad guys’ than to be burying our dead.

            I realize that I have traveled from families held at the border to terrorism. You may find it overkill. But I do not.

            BTW You will notice that Canada, always eager to criticize our immigration standards, is now having a problem sorting out the legitimacy of claims for amnesty. They call hundreds at a time a crisis. Canada’s international obligations require it to consider the refugee claim of anyone who lands on its shores. The one exception to that – the Canada-United States Safe Third Country Agreement, under which people who seek asylum in Canada or the U.S. aren’t allowed to jump from one country to the other – is easily defeated by avoiding official border crossings and entering Canada at an unsecured area. ILLEGALLY

            Add to the mix Canada’s reputation as a welcoming place, and the result has been a steady flow of refugees entering Canada from the US, via back roads and through fields. Abusing Canada’s generous treatment of immigrants and refugees. SOUND FAMILIAR?

            TORONTO SUN https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/malcolm-canadas-border-crisis-its-still-happening-in-2018

      • B E Vickroy

        Peter —

        Re – ” As always, the judge has the final word ” …….if that were the case, the entire federal and state judiciary could rest on past decisions. Did you notice the judge’s comment pointing a finger of at least SOME blame on Congress’s inaction over 20 years.

        —–“It is apparent that Defendants’ Application is a cynical attempt…to shift responsibility to the Judiciary for OVER 20 YEARS OF CONGRESSIONAL INACTION and ill-considered Executive action that have led to the current stalemate.” —-

        This calls to mind the dissent in the PLYLER v DOE case, which ruled that since an amnesty was around the corner [1986] the TX law regarding free public education for illegal alien children was moot.

        —-” The Constitution does not provide a cure for every social ill, nor does it vest judges with a mandate to try to remedy every social problem”; and that the majority was overstepping its bounds by seeking “to do Congress’ job for it, compensating for congressional inaction”.—–

        “…..There is nothing new under the sun” [Ecclesiastes 1:9]
        [Shakespeare Sonnet 59]
        If there is nothing new under the sun, but that which
        Has been before, how are our brains cheated,
        Which, toiling to create something new, mistakenly
        Brings forth something that already exists

        • Peter Robbins

          I noticed that events unfolded exactly the way I predicted they would. As things stand now, the Trump administration cannot separate families and it cannot detain children for longer than 20 days, and so it has no choice but to release the asylum-seeking families and use those case-management/electronic-tracking measures it already has at its disposal to ensure, as best it can, that the asylum-seekers show up for hearings. In other words, the Trump administration has learned the hard way what the Obama administration already knew. I’m starting to think maybe David Dennison isn’t the genius we took him for.

          • B E Vickroy

            Peter — Re: “unfold as predicted…” I suspect that there are more cards -as-yet-undealt- in this deck. The talking heads will opine that this is the end of Trump and the end of the Republican party, etc. etc. BUT when the cards are played-out, it might have a different outcome. I’m guessing that the results of the mid-term elections will “unfold” more of the story. Though immigration has been my passion for many years, today my main “dog in this hunt” is SCOTUS selections.

            Re: “Trump….. what the Obama administration already knew” ….the difference may not be so much what Pres. Obama **KNEW, as what his [& Bush’s] policy regarding ‘catch/release’ was. Pres Trump’s ZERO TOLERANCE for ALL border-crossers is one difference. The other essential difference is the tone & tenor of the media coverage. Obama’s approach [which kicked the can down the road] got media “TUT TUT’s”. While Trumps’ approach got hysterical “Here comes Hitler and his goose-stepping minions.”

            **[NEWSWEEK] “In fiscal year 2013, under the Barack Obama administration, the HHS Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) had as many as 25,000 unaccompanied children in its care across 80 shelters, according to a July 2014 article in Mother Jones.”

        • boatrocker

          Still quoting a book of fairy tales for how you like to visit the sins of the mothers/fathers upon theirchildren in cages.

          The Trump administration is now overdue on their deadline to reunite all kids in cages with their families. How Christian. Vickory’s one woman echo chamber leads me to believe she doth protest too much.

          Just to stir the pot, 1983 semi decent (funny video but ehhh for the band) youtube video:

          • B E Vickroy

            Boatrocker .. Re: ” How Christian. Vickory’s one woman echo chamber leads me to believe she doth protest too much. ” It is unfortunate that repeating or giving greater flesh to the truth about a situation, is seen by some as “senseless babble” or by others as an “echo chamber”. Just toooo confusing.
            — To say of what is, that it is, or of what is not, that it is not, is true. [ ARISTOTLE ]

            I plead guilty of trying to delineate the dozens of reasons why open borders do disservice to folks on both sides of any border. —– [1] Why the present world situation [*terror] makes necessary MORE not LESS vetting of any and ALL who enter, whether just a few or coming by the thousands — BOTH legally and illegally.—– [2] Why children being separated from parents is either within their responsibility or made necessary by *TERROR, dishonesty, and sheer numbers. If illegal entry=100% parent’s. Or if ‘legal’ entry[seeking asylum from danger], the separation is a part of the price they pay for fleeing from a lawless state to one where there are LAWFUL ways to gain entry. And don’t forget, that ‘nation of laws’ thing is what makes the US such an attractive, safe haven.

            See *terror above for the legitimate, logical, prudent reasons for more stringent border security [vetting]. even if difficult or scary to those seeking a safe haven. AND even if the MSM and those who respond to, what is often cynical and disingenuous sensation-mongering, think that LESS security is BETTER, because parents and children are fearful. Or because THE WORLD will think us heartless.

            Finally, FYI “doth protest too much” was used by Matthew centuries before Shakespeare [Matt. 23:31 “You protest too much!…”] Hamlet -1600 – “The lady doth protest too much, methinks” [Act 3, Scene 2]

  14. boatrocker

    One more-
    I have social skills, do not look like Quasimodo
    and need not rely upon sex slaves from Central America
    or anywhere else. The GOP tends to view
    ‘womens’ as property.

    Coke is generally a selfish pr$% GOP drug so cut off the demand and the problem
    will go away. Take away that $1 trillion tax cut for selfish pr$%* and boom! Less expendable income to blow on blow. Maybe some local restaurants/bars will finally stay in business for more than 2 years! Leave importing coke to the CIA- it’s what they do the best.

    Marijuana? Ha! The stuff grown locally blows the imported stuff out of the water. Bye bye narcoterrorism and gangs for starving.

    Reduce the demand and all the criminal baddies’ business will dry up, and no more
    ‘they bring crime, they’re rapists’ etc. See, free market capitalism solves everything.


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