Letter: Are we complicit in ICE roundups?

Graphic by Lori Deaton

I am reminded of George Carlin’s quote that Thanksgiving is a typically American holiday: starving, we had a feast with the natives, then stole their land and killed them all. So it seems for “Dreamers” and Temporary Protected Status holders: spend 20 years or more here, then, upon deportation, have your business, home, job and family destroyed without compensation, cheered on by manipulative politicians pressing their usual buttons.

By now, videos of humans being detained by ICE are circulating on social media. With their SWAT gear in swaggering display in Candler, South Asheville, Weaverville and other places, am I one of the few remaining octogenarians who remember the SS rounding up Jews, Slavs, homosexuals and Gypsies in World War II? They considered themselves German, Polish, Italian and French, having lived decades (if not centuries) in these countries as immigrants fleeing Inquisition kangaroo courts, prejudice and ignorance.

History has been quick to judge the German population’s passivity and complicity in the face of Third Reich horrors, but are we equally complicit in these roundups against “Them” (to use this administration’s Orwellian thought-speak where, through desensitization, things that are wrong become right)? As in the case of 1930s Germany, these TPS [holders] and Dreamers who have been here decades consider themselves American, with no ties to Haiti, Nicaragua or Africa. Their only sin seems to be their skin pigmentation.

We are supposed to swallow the lies that “They” have committed crimes against our legal order, are un-American, outlaws, “not one of Us.” On that basis, that Roman criminal and outlaw, Jesus of Nazareth, deserved everything he got. But the facts are different. Just as one example, in 2010 undocumented workers paid $12 billion in … taxes for which they will never see benefits. In case you think they are stealing our jobs, when agricultural job offerings were posted for Americans — getting 4 million hits on the [United Farm Workers’] website — only 12 showed up and none of these dozen lasted more than a day in the pesticide polluted fields. A Napa Valley winery could not get a single grape picker at $20/hour.

The word “collaborationist” has lost its meaning in these eight decades since World War II, but our collective and collaborative silence and passivity is as damning as those who turned in their neighbors in Europe because they had been declared “different than us.” If you think you’re safe because you’re not one of “those people,” think again. ICE has unlawfully detained thousands of American citizens who have been imprisoned without access to lawyers for weeks, months and even years. …

[According to The Outline.com:] “ICE has no legal grounds to detain or deport U.S. citizens, but that doesn’t mean it never happens. There have been dozens of reported cases of citizens being detained after posting bail for a separate offense because ICE has placed a detainer on them, or of citizens spending weeks, months, or even years in ICE detention without speaking to a lawyer. ICE won’t release the data on how often this occurs.”

[And from a 2011 study in Virginia Journal of Social Policy & the Law:] “Each time the media reports that ICE has detained or deported a U.S. citizen, an ICE public affairs spokesperson refuses to comment on the case, ignores the evidence on hand and denies the incident occurred, or responds as though the example at hand is a freakish fluke among ICE’s entire caseload of millions.”

Apart from the Catholic and Evangelical groups, which support these immigrants, where is the religious or secular moral protest and pressure on our hypocritical politicians? We can’t change many things, but we can write, protest, march and give voice in the face of this inhumane outrage. At the very least, to save our souls.

— Richard Unanue
Asheville

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39 thoughts on “Letter: Are we complicit in ICE roundups?

  1. Bert

    Immigration is a big, ugly, hairy mess, and this administration picked up where the last one left off, trying to clean it up. Unfortunately, it’s something on a scale that can’t be handled in just a week, or just by building a wall, or just by sending 18 busloads of people home every week, but rather by leading with sound, reasoned policy, built on knowledge, information, and experience drawn from entities like ICE, but also from communities, employers, and from other sources, to first deeply and broadly understand the entire issue in all its fullness, and THEN start penning comprehensible, comprehensible, enforceable policy, so that people coming here know what’s up, and people living here know what’s up, and the people ultimately charged with enforcing the policy, also know what’s up. When everyone’s on the same page, and resources have been allocated, and you don’t have the courts fighting the rest of the federal government on it, and you don’t have states trying to have their own way of doing business, because it is ultimately a federal issue, then you’re going to start seeing resolution. But as long as one state is doing business this way, and another state is doing business that way, and the federal government is inconsistent in both approach and process, and insufficient resources are provided for dealing with it effectively, then the beatings will continue, until morale improves. Meanwhile, the world has produced another 60-80 million people in 2018, and will likely do so again, in 2019, and so on, with a slight tendency to increase, eventually to 100 million annually, or 1/10th billion. 10 years, a billion people, 10 years, another billion people, and presto, you’re at the 9 billion UN estimate for 2050 worldwide.

    The US is estimated to have added just 2..6 million people in that same 1-year period. That doesn’t sound so bad, until you advance it one decade, and ‘oh’, 26 million people. So, 26 million drivers, electricity and water users, and eventually we’ll have 426 million instead of just 326 million today. Remember all the people complaining about The Environment? They’re just going to get louder, along with all the commuters trying to use the highways, to drive to the job, hopefully.

    China laughs at our problems. They have 1.4 billion people. And, 60-mile-long traffic jams. And, other problems. Hopefully, we’ll never see 60-mile-long traffic jams. Hopefully, we’ll all continue to be able to find a job. Hopefully we won’t have massive disease outbreaks like in L.A. with the homeless typhus thing this year. Hopefully, people will have their hats on straight when crafting things like immigration policy, and keep the hard facts in mind instead of drifting off into emotionalism.

    Preppers expect it all to go to the Hot Place, one fine day, system breakdown, mass chaos, and so forth. I’m a little more optimistic, I think we’ll survive, even at 9 billion, but it will take some reframing of how we do things and what our honest expectations are in this life, and, it will bring harsh competition to parts of the country that have never seen it before. It will also do things like wipe out water tables, cause grid failures, cost increases for foodstuffs, fuel, pretty much everything we can buy right now fairly economically. Decent-paying jobs might be fewer and farther between, though, along with parking spaces, apartments, and other niceties.

    The immigration system is roughly the throttle, or valve, that partly affects our rate of population increase. Given that it’s kind of a one-way thing, once people are here they tend to stay here, the issue begs careful, detailed consideration. Hopefully all concerned with give the issue some due diligence and careful study.

  2. Lulz

    Either you have borders or you don’t.

    You can choose to enforce laws or ignore them. Don;t be surprised when others use your example of not only putting illegals above the law. But also telling you to go take a leap off a bridge when you expect them to obey it. So pass all the laws you want to but don’t play moral crusader when all the sudden you find everybody breaking them. That’s the example you set. That’s the insanity of your mentality.

    You want illegals and cheap labor and then complain about wages being low? Insane.
    You want illegals, release them from jails for crimes that no citizen would even get the same treatment for? Insane,
    You want illegals, automatic welfare and benefits, free healthcare and then expect others to pay for it? Insane.

    We just saw an illegal, who’s been in jail multiple times and released , murder a deputy in California. That’s insane. But you people are insane.

    • B.E. Vickroy

      Bert, Lulz – Thank you for laying out the logical concerns that MASSIVE immigration numbers give rise to. Please note the US Census ”pop-clock” https://www.census.gov/popclock/ our present population is 328,229,607 — with a net gain of one person every 18 seconds, *you do the math for our population in a few decades and decide what *you will bequeath to *your posterity. [***you? yes YOU, who to borrow from the writer’s condemnatory words, YOU who are complicit in setting and enforcing policies that will effect generations yet to come. YOU, who place soft-headed emotionalism, where hard-headed rationality is required] l was born and lived 76 of my 82 years in CA – where the full effects of legal & illegal immigration can be felt. Water consumption exceeds supply. Schools must accommodate 2.5 million non-English-speakers. Schools which ”house” over 3 million students in trailers, because bond funding can’t keep up with demands for classrooms. Hospitals go bankrupt because of non-payment by ILLEGAL immigrant patients. All the physical, natural, & cultural infrastructures stretched and broken. And the latest infamy, CA, where an illegal alien killed a legal immigrant police officer.

      • B.E. Vickroy

        Just one more attempt to appeal to logical approach to a problem that is fraught with emotional traps. From NUMBERS USA, created in response to the report by Congresswoman BARBARA JORDAN. ”Moderates, conservatives, & liberals working for immigration numbers that serve America’s finest goals…..The key factor in immigration policy is choosing the right number of authorized immigrants for future years. To choose a lower number does not imply anything negative about the immigrants who already are legally in this country. We’re talking about the future number that is best for both U.S.-born and foreign-born citizens…….Every government in the world has the obligation to decide what immigration number is right for the community in its care. Of greatest concern is how the number that is chosen will affect our grandchildren’s grandchildren. Will we condemn them to live packed in a highly regimented country approaching a billion people? Or will we make it possible for them to enjoy the qualities of life we today hold the most dear?”…… Roy Beck, NumbersUSA Founder & President https://www.numbersusa.com/about

    • SpareChange

      “You can choose to enforce laws or ignore them. Don;t be surprised when others use your example of not only putting illegals above the law. But also telling you to go take a leap off a bridge when you expect them to obey it. So pass all the laws you want to but don’t play moral crusader when all the sudden you find everybody breaking them. That’s the example you set. That’s the insanity of your mentality.”

      HA! That’s pretty amazing logic coming from someone who has just posted screed after screed ridiculing and chastising fellow citizens of Asheville who are simply looking for the modest enforcement of existing local ordinances. Must be nice to be the ultimate arbiter of which laws YOU want to take seriously and which you do not. But then again, you have the Commander-In-Cheeto to tell you which laws should be obeyed, whose pockets should be filled with public money, and which porn stars to pay off.

      • Lulz

        LOL you mean the noise ordinance where people move into a commercial area and then complain about the noise and want to use government to change it to suit them?

        Or are we talking about borders, countries forcring their poor here because they are corrupt, and a bunch of power hungry democrats who can’t convince people that paying 90 percent of their wages in taxes to be redistributed to everything from climate change fakes to sanctuary cities that allow criminals out of custody because they aren’t here legally isn’t getting them votes? Problem with loons on the left is their policies suck so much and people are realizing that the real message under it all is all about controlling their lives to their own detriment. And so replacing them with uneducated and unskilled poor who will rely on them is easier. That’s the lunacy of your ideology. As if certain people who play by the rules will continue to do so as their quality of life suffers because their wages are being stolen from them so other who don’t even belong here can stay. And only someone who has had real job would understand that. People like you don’t. People in government jobs don’t either.

        Like I said, you can’t claim you’re for high wages and support US labor when you open up the nation to people who will work for much less. And get everything from free healthcare and EBT to make up for it. That’s why democrats have to move even further left. Instead of promoting fair wages with work, now they support cheap labor with generous handouts. Or complete unemployment with a minimum income aka socialism. All to paid by the “rich” but in reality it’s the ever shrinking middle class that actually gets the tab.

        • SpareChange

          You don’t even see how your phony conservative populism (which is neither conservative nor populist) is just the mechanism by which you and the other Trumpistas turn a blind eye toward those who are using your anger as the resource they need to further line their own pockets. “Oh my God! The caravans! Filled with mother rapers and father stabbers, and father rapers (apologies to Arlo).” Let’s spend multiple billions on pointless walls. Let’s whip up all the fear and anger we can. Let’s blame these amorphous “progressives” for all our ills. “Wah… wah… wah” Your script is so tired, so pointless — like the instructions on a shampoo bottle: “Wash… rinse… repeat… (and repeat, and repeat, and repeat)”

          You may be a very angry sheep, but you are a sheep nonetheless, and you don’t even see who is fleecing you. Continue to spew your anger and resentment one rung down on the economic ladder, and at the phony caravans, and minorities, and at the long list of other people you hate — because it is creating just the distraction needed for people like Trump, Kushner, Pruitt, Ross, Zinke, Flynn, Mulvaney, DeVos, Mnuchin, Manafort, Broidy, etc., to bilk the economy and the nation out of everything they can.

          • B.E. Vickroy

            Spare Change … you find concern over the movement of HUNDREDS of foreign nationals en masse to challenge our border security to be ”pointless anger” whipped up to line someone’s pockets – SAY WHAT ?!? Blue Collar America cares; Conservationists [aka ”tree huggers” ] care; parents whose child’s school must cut programs to accommodate THOUSANDS [in CA, MILLIONS] of illegal alien or children of illegal aliens – CARE. Please don’t read xenophobia, racism, elitism into these concerns. Please don’t demean these concerns as evidence of manipulated sheep, who can’t think for themselves. We are not fearful, and we also not stupid.

          • SpareChange

            Mr. Vickroy – your elevated tone and the thought you put into the discussion is much appreciated. My response was focused not on the issues you raise, or the arguments made by yourself and some others, but rather on the endless trolling by Lulz tolerated on these pages (whose chosen moniker explains most of what he is all about).

            Although I do think all too many people are being manipulated and used on this issue in a political sleight of hand intended to distract us from the corruption playing out in this administration, and I do think there is a great deal of xenophobia and bigotry that is being fanned in the process, that is not the same as saying there is no issue there. You, thankfully, choose to deal with the issue in a thoughtful and well considered manner. Others just want to use is as a stick in the eye to their imagined political enemies, while at the same time remaining blind to how they are being used themselves.

          • Lulz

            Sheep went along with Wanda Green every time she wanted tax increases. Sheep go along with tax increase after tax increase without asking questions. And for those that do speak up, they are labeled trolls lulz.

            Thousands of people coming into the country while elitist windbags claim to support living wages is about getting old. To sit there and say caravans are phony is what leftist liars are good at. My eyes must be deceiving me, right?

            Here’s something for you to digest. I’m 1st generation, My parents came here LEGALLY. And were dirt poor. You know nothing of poverty, hardship, nothing. Only the garbage you regurgitate from leftist media which we all know is lies. And the underlying theme here is simply to force the borders wide open so communist can have a ready made base of voters one day. And that’s because the actual citizens who do work are turned off by their lunacy.

          • SpareChange

            So Lulz, when was it exactly that as a political group, phony right wing populists became bigger whiners than mushy soft-left liberals? That’s some pretty stiff competition, but I’m thinking it dates from at least when you elected the current whiner-in-chief. Lord, is there no end to the whimpering about all those mean people out there tryin to get you, take your jobs, steal your money, etc? I mean, do you really not see what is going on? You are being fleeced, and then when the facts showing it are put right in front of you, you deny it and attribute it to yet another entity you whine incessantly about — the scary, conspiratorial leftist media. Oooooohhh, quick, hide under the bed… Rachel Maddow is going to get you!

            You’re REALLY going to talk about tax policy? You mean like the bogus “tax cut” which saw 83% of the benefits go to the top 1%? The one which transfers wealth from the middle and working class to the wealthy through the narrowing or closing of provisions allowing for personal exemptions, state and local tax write-offs, etc.? The one that is adding trillions to the national debt? And what is your response to all this? Wanda Green?? A disgraced county manager in the 267th largest county in the country? Really? That’s what you got? Well, guess what? Wanda Green is DESERVEDLY going to federal prison — where she will have plenty of company from the growing number of members of the current administration – and hopefully, at some point, up to and including the corrupter-in-chief himself. He’s so corrupt that he and his whole crooked family have actually been banned from being involved in any charity or philanthropy in his home state. Let that sink in. You don’t need a degree from Trump U. (also a massive scam, dissolved with his having to pay $25 million to those he bilked) to see that he is taking you for a ride, whipping up anger and then picking your pockets while you sit and sputter about all these mean people out to get you.

          • Lulz

            When one says the caravans are made up, then it’s kind of pointless.

            You think the nation is evil. You assume the Constitution is full of malice and needs to be erased,. Problem is you’re gonna have to convince half the nation that putting them in poverty for the greater good is in their best interests. And that globalism is the best thing while they see not only their jobs disappear to illegals, but their own identity as well. To me that’s the same as what the Nazi’s did to the Jews. Problem with people such as yourself is you’re pushing what you accuse other of doing.

          • SpareChange

            No, as usual you just spew mischaracterizations and exaggerations in order to troll people, and try to pretend it’s an actual argument. But I’ll speak to at least one issue. Caravans are not made up. They are all too real, and they are just one small symbol of the despair experienced by many in the world. I do sympathize with them, but as a matter of policy, no – I do not support open borders or anything approximating it. Nor does much of anyone else since the late 1800s. The “open borders” argument is yet another bit of exaggerated nonsense, intended to misrepresent people’s actual positions.

            Now, what absolutely IS made up is the phony national security crisis Trump and his administration have whipped up, and which his supporters have swallowed. The sending of thousands of troops to the border to stop the invading hordes. Fanning fear about terrorism (when no terrorists actually enter the country in this manner). Trying to make people think that a wall is either economically or politically feasible, or that it could ever be more effective than numerous other more reasonable and efficient means of monitoring and bringing order to the border. And now, after years of phony rhetoric about Mexico paying for it, shutting down the government in order to force poor saps like you (and me) to pay for it.

            Yes, that is all smoke and mirrors. It is intended to distract people from the real corruption and incompetence of this administration. And it does play to people’s fears and hatreds rather than their hopes and aspirations. And you know that. You honestly, really do know that. But to then either, a) genuinely not see that this is what is going on, or to b) see it, and not acknowledge and condemn it, is either the ultimate political delusion in the first instance, or the ultimate political hypocrisy in the second.

            The other thing that is absolutely “made up” is your endless spew of the same tired, empty rhetoric and pretend rage aimed at almost anyone who writes or posts to these pages – it just happens to be directed my way this time. That your posts also now increasingly taking the form of incessant whining about all the bad people who victimize you and make your life miserable, only serves to make you a distorted mirror image of those you profess to despise the most. But here too, you are just taking your lead from the lying, corrupt person you helped put in office, who when it comes to whining, sets a new high water mark every day.

            And of course, just for good measure, rather than actually making a thoughtful case for a position, you play both the “communist” and “nazi” cards. Usually people are satisfied with just one of those hysterical accusations, but that of course is what makes your posts special. Why just make a ridiculous charge, when you can be both ridiculous and absurd.

  3. Stan Hawkins

    Your passion and compassion for those you write about is commendable. As you say, there are many who find themselves in circumstances beyond their control. Perhaps less obvious in your post, is there are many who are in circumstances where they bear some responsibility for their actions. Law and order is required in any civilization to sort out these mattters.

    If for example, you owned a homestead and land where you allowed a person or persons to tread on your property, build fencing, set up a home and you acquiesced to these circumstances that is one thing. For you then to wake up one day and object to theses circumstances would be a reversal and most likely cause undue hardship. If that is your beef, then okay. On the other hand, if you continue to allow persons with no legal standing to occupy your land, then that is another thing. You would most likely then find that through word of mouth, social media, etc. that word would soon get out that “hey let’s go to Richard’s place.” Where is the order in that? What would be your solution for that?

    To read your attempts to deflect away from a civilization’s need for law, order, and the right to reasonably expect lawful actions and order from our neighbors and those we invite into our country, gives me great reasons for pause. We have many good reasons to be concerned about the security of our citizens and guests who are invited to be here. We have many good reasons to understand that our Judeo-Christian values are under attack. It seems to me, that those that would seek to destroy America would want nothing more than a chaotic system of immigration, open borders, while tearing down verbally and physically those whose responsibility it is to secure our borders; while they plot for their agenda. History teaches us how our enemies thrives on chaos, finger pointing, and silo thinking between government agencies and citizens.

    At the Register of Deeds in Buncombe County you will find recorded a legal document for all the land owners in the county. These documents are called deeds. In addition, you will find in many cases a survey recorded – outlining the boundaries of the property ownership. This tradition was brought over from Europe at the settling of our great country. Property rights are generally considered sacrosanct in any lawful and orderly society.

    A good book teaches us that plowing a field while looking backwards leads to ruin. To succeed, we must make good decisions about our today’s and tomorrow’s. Law and order, security combined with worthy charity, and a strong America forged on a foundation of Judeo-Christian values with sovereign property rights should be our agenda.

    • luther blissett

      “This tradition was brought over from Europe at the settling of our great country. Property rights are generally considered sacrosanct in any lawful and orderly society.”

      Weird how all those Cherokee ended up in Oklahoma.

      • Lulz

        Weird how all the prime California real estate was once owned by Japanese until they were rounded up and sent to concentration camps under the Roosevelt administration. Why wasn’t it given back to them?

          • Lulz

            No politics intended. Again, Japanese were forced out of what is now prime real estate in San Fransisco, LA, and other coastal areas in the west. Are you saying that in a time of war it’s OK to take land and keep it? Did we not go to war with Mexico at one time? Are you now saying that any land gained should be given back? Because if you’re going to go that route, there’s a ton of prime land in California that also needs to go back. But first you need to pay the descendants of those Japanese billions. All about justice bud.

          • Phillip C Williams

            My understanding has long been that the Mexican government invited Anglo settlers into Texas, mostly for economic development – and to let the settlers fight the Indians….What they didn’t like was that many settlers from the American South brought the practice of chattel slavery – and their slaves – with them, and wanted to continue the practice..

            Suggest you read about the “Empresarial Grants” made by Spain before Mexico became independent from that nation (1821), or of the “General Colonization Law” passed by newly independent Mexico in 1824 – all to bring settlers into the Tejas territory.

            A very few years later, when the number of settlers started to exceed those of indigenous peoples and those of Hispanic descent, and when some of the Anglo settler attitudes – especially with regard to African slavery – became obvious, the Mexican government reacted by trying to prohibit further settlement by US citizens.

            Like about everything else in the history of the Americas, it is far more complex than you or your link suggest.

          • Phillip C Williams

            The link you provide doesn’t tell the whole tale. The issue, like so many others in History, has a bit more to it than many articles and writers care to talk about.

            The article makes no mention of the “Empresarial Grants” made by Spain before Mexico won her independence from that country in 1821, or the “General Colonization Law” of 1824, enacted by independent Mexico. Both of these were intended to encourage colonization and development of the Tejas region – but Mexico got more than she bargained for.

            It was 1830 before the Mexican government actually tried legislation to address problems with some of the attitudes of settlers from the United States – including the refusal of settlers to learn Spanish or embrace Roman Catholicism – particularly toucheous were the Southerners who brought their African slaves and the practice of chattel slavery with them.

            The Presidente of the Mexican Republic, Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, carried his own set of personal and moral issues, and so, things festered until the American Texans declared and fought for their own independence from Mexico in 1836, and the United States went to war with Mexico in 1846 after the Republic of Texas agreed to annexation by the US as the 45th State – and from that war, the US expanded her territory considerably, to include New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Nevada and California…..

        • B.E. Vickroy

          Lulz – l think that Asians were not allowed to own property in CA, and no lease more than 3 years – at that time. When l was about 5, our next door neighbors were interred – my Dad and others harvested his crop [gladiolus] and sent the $ to them. Was a troubling time, what with PEARL HARBOR, and worry about invasion. Just say’n.

      • C-Law

        Luther…a corrupt and lawless Empire is how. Not sure if there has ever been Rule of Law consistently applied on this continent. It had a chance before 1787-89, but anyway.

        I support the Cherokee fully. I have heard some Empire supporters say they Cherokee deserved what they got because they were filthy and evil slave holders, deserved to be destroyed just the same as those despicable Southerners…What do you think Luther?

      • Stan Hawkins

        Indeed, the Trail of Tears – a sad story. A story among many throughout civilizations that have both good and bad qualities. The question is what decisions should be made now?

        The truth is America has been a generous country and not a perfect country. But, I have yet to find anyone that can present a good case for why – open borders, abolishing ICE, sanctuary cities, catch and release, uncooperative local police, etc. that will result in America continuing to be strong enough to still be a secure and generous country. The absence of that made case should be cause for alarm.

        Instead, all I hear or read is backward looking name calling the likes of Islamophobes, Bigots, Racist, White Cons, etc. When you hear the name calling, that should be your clue that a fact based case for the agenda does not exist. That goes both ways.

        • luther blissett

          The US is neither secure nor generous. The immigration system as it currently exists is a chaotic mess. (Talk to a legal immigrant some time about it.)

          Get back to us when you support checkpoints at the state line for people bringing in illegal fireworks.

          • luther blissett

            Private charitable donations are a misleading indicator of national generosity: private charity is capricious and often self-dealing, especially in a jurisdiction where charitable giving is tax-favored, whether it’s the current president and his fake foundation, or people donating to their church or local orchestra and taking the tax deduction.

            If the issue is the security and integrity of a jurisdiction, then states should have checkpoints for contraband alongside truck weigh stations.

            My suspicion, though, is that the question of legal “belonging” has become blurred with that of ethnic or cultural “belonging”, just as it was with the Irish or Italians or Poles. (Be honest: if you encounter someone with a Canadian or Irish or Australian accent, are you going to presume they’re in the US legally?)

            The way that those groups were integrated / assimilated? Political power and government-subsidized property ownership.

          • Stan Hawkins

            Luther using your logic as presented, the motivations or hospitality of charitable folks or a charitable country whether private or public, should be considered suspect and thus the recipients of that charity should do what – act with resentment, rebellion, spite? What good can come from that?

            Your logic is also synonymous with the author of this piece, in that the motivations of those seeking a lawful society, and most of all order should be considered suspect, self dealing, narrow minded, etc. etc., and simply stand down and let what happen?

            The brush strokes of that picture painted with No Order, No Borders, No Security, No Respect For Laws, No Respect For Police, No Charity, No Trust leads at least this one to ask – what good can come for America from that?

          • luther blissett

            My point is simply that private charity is no substitute for policies that deliver benefits to society as a whole. It’s capricious. I’m reminded of the poor fellow who put up a GoFundMe to cover his insulin, ended up dying because nobody noticed, but the GoFundMe for his funeral raised thousands of dollars.

            And you’re still evading the question about whether NC should have checkpoints on the freeway to enforce its state laws.

  4. C-Law

    Like it or not (I happen to not like it…) we live in an empire. The American Empire’s direction was charted when the independent southern confederacy was conquered and subjugated back into the fold of the Yankee empire in 1865. It is a fact that no empire in history that was multicultural and/or multilingual has ever stood the test of time. I for one, would vote for devolution and dissolution of the US Empire, but the NWO globalists will never allow it without destroying everything and everyone on the way down. Long story short, you have secure borders, a common language, and common cultural values and norms, your nation survives and might thrive. No borders, no common language, “coexist” cultural relativism equals guaranteed destruction of the empire, and it will be uglier than any of you can likely imagine, except maybe Bill Fortschen.

    Then to top it off we have half the nation that refuses to close our border to “refugees” and “asylum seekers”, say much less sending home all the illegals who are already here. Indeed they want more of these uneducated, low-skilled individuals and families here who can’t carry their own weight economically, and some of them bring nasty, communicable (and expensive) diseases in with them or are violent, felonious thugs who rape, rob and murder. Yet we’re told that even though a family of three can’t make it work on $100,000 in income due to all this crap we must depress wages even more and add even more welfare expense to be paid for by all those legal immigrants and citizens through allowing more of these people in!

    Instead of a general strike from the population demanding all this garbage cease right now or an even more-forceful NO! (when you get out-protested by France you’re in trouble folks) we are treated to whining and politicians kowtowing to whatever crazy, unfundable and impossible scheme they dream up next.

    If the financial market/medical monopoly games do not stop by 2024 Medicare will run out of money and be forced to curtail care for Seniors or attempt to throw the entire deficit in its spending into the Federal Budget. At that point The Fed will lose control entirely as will Congress, since effectively shutting off Medicare for Seniors will prove politically impossible. We are talking about $2 trillion a year deficits forever once this occurs and the market will not allow that to happen.

    Best case…Devolution of Federal power aka Secession 2.0 (the most freedom preserving and peaceful end to the empire…)…worst case a rapid economic collapse and total breakdown of our economy and “in-time” logistical systems…think The Road by Cormac McCarthy.

    Be aware and awake, you might have 2 and a half, maybe three years barring unforeseen natural disaster (asteroid strike, Yellowstone eruption, Spanish flu redux, etc.), or world war to get your affairs in order…

    • B.E. Vickroy

      Hey Luther – one point of difference. l think that a willingness, eagerness, & determination to learn the language of their new country, along with fervent gratitude for the freedom and opportunity it offered them – these things were major contributors to previous immigrant’s assimilation, too often missing in today’s immigrants. My Slavic Grandfather was almost fiercely American. lt allowed him to move from uneducated seaman to CA business owner. He passed this to his son, and he to his children. And we do tend to get our backs up over assertions that claim class acceptance or dislike, as well as political power and tax breaks as the prime factors in ”belonging’ or not’. lf old Joe Bartechko were here, he’d tell – in broken English – all who hold such views to take a trip to his ancestral home. [which, by-the-way, is still no haven of freedom], which had zero upward mobility, generation to generation.

      • luther blissett

        “l think that a willingness, eagerness, & determination to learn the language of their new country, along with fervent gratitude for the freedom and opportunity it offered them – these things were major contributors to previous immigrant’s assimilation”

        Your Slavic Grandfather may have been among the group of people considered worthy of heavy subsidized home loans. That kind of helps.

        But there’s a lot of family mythology here. If you look at census records and the existence of newspapers written in languages other than English — German, Swedish, Dutch, Italian, Yiddish, etc. — it’s clear that first-generation immigrants from the early 1900s remained closely tied to their communities of origin, their children grew up spanning two worlds, and their grandchildren are fully assimilated.

        That’s how it works.

        • B.E. Vickroy

          Luther – yes, many non-English newspapers, then and now. But ”back in the day” whole sections were spent in teaching basic English – not so today. Truth to tell, l don’t know anything about my grandfather’s financial situation – but am guessing that any loan might have been direct with the property owner. My folks built their first home themselves, nothing subsidized by government. They bought our next home in Encinitas, with large payments to previous owner. The new home next door, was mostly built by all of us, and financed through VA loan, it was paid off in less than 10 years, with single income. We weren’t that different from others at that time. Nowdays, folks are slaves to credit card debt, school loans, etc. The amount of debt held by most families is not healthy – for them, or for the nation.
          BTW if you want a good read – A PLACE FOR US by Nicholas Gage [Pulitzer for ELENA] well written story of Greek DP family [displaced persons] after WWll. lt is a wonderful peek into the adjustments of adapting to a strange culture. and spans several generations.

  5. Phillip C Williams

    Again with the comparisons of the United States to Nazi Germany – this time from an octogenarian who “remembers how it was”. Well. One thing you obviously do NOT remember is that the Nazis were not rounding up illegal immigrants for deportation. In most cases, they were rounding up their own citizens for extermination.

    And they were not securing their borders against illegal aliens, they were expanding their borders far beyond their own nation, and doing the same roundups of “undesirables” in the conquered territories.

    So many folks love to use the word “Nazi” or make comparisons to Nazi Germany for anyone with whom they disagree or any thing they take issue with. It has watered down the term so much that it is no wonder that many younger people cannot intelligently discuss history. Sad to see it is the same with some older folks.

    • Stan Hawkins

      So true Phillip, thanks for illustrating why the thinking represented by this author’s piece is baseless without any logical point made. The truth is America has been the most blessed, hospitable, charitable, and freedom seeking country in the history of the world. Yes, we have problems, and we need a course correction back to the Almighty to reverse the tide of symptoms that too many like to call something else.

      Thanks.

    • Richard Unanue

      Amazing set of responses, most off the point. On the above comment, the original title–changed by the Opinions Editor–was “No Thanks, Giving, or Charity for Dreamers and TPS Holders”. It was not a letter addressing the immigration and racial issues that have divided the country. The central point of the letter regarding this group of “legal” immigrants is that they have been here over decades under a status that by now is anything but temporary. Most of them entered as children or adolescents and are now English speaking adults with famiies, businesses, jobs, and roots. They have not been and are not now illegal immigrants. Their numbers are less than 400,000, that is about 0.1% of our population; hardly a blip in this vast country. The use of Third Reich policies as illustration is appropriate as my letter explains since the similarity with the tactics presently being used for solely political purposes are obvious. I could have used our own shameful policies in demonizing and incarceration (yes, that is what it was) of “slit-eyed” Japanese Americans during WWII but thought the parallel would be too inflammatory for the MAGA segment . Yes, immigration problems around the world must be solved but this has absolutely nothing to do with the deportation of these long standing, productive neighbors. Finally, my children’s maternal family were almost all exterminated in Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen. I don’t know or can comment on Mr. Williams’ or Mr. Hawkins’ background but my children and grandchildren have earned the familial right to point out uncomfortable, historical parallels so that it doesn’t happen again. For Mr. Hawkins’ hope of a return to religion as the solution, let me remind him that these countries were Christian, Almighty blessed, and God-fearing. Can’t help myself in thinking that Samuel Johnson was wrong: it’s not patriotism but religion that is the last refuge of scoundrels, usually politicians.

      • Stan Hawkins

        Richard, thank you for clarification on your post. As for my heritage, I will just state that my uncles and great uncles fought in Europe in both of the great struggles. My father fought in the Pacific with the USN. My concern is protecting America from enemies foreign and domestic, thus my appreciation for all who wear the uniform and standing guard on our border, our cities, and communities.

        As for your comments or rather mis-stating my last comments. I never mentioned “religion” as that can mean many things, as I suspect you know. You also probably know that just because a citizen of let’s say any country says they are or believe something does not make it so.

        My comment specifically stated, the Almighty (Jesus Christ / God for clarification if needed) and a return to the enduring values pledged by George Washington in his first official act as President of the United States. Beginning approximately 50 years ago in this country, we have abandoned many of those enduring values spoken over our country at its founding. We have had two significant wake up calls in the last 17 years. Yet, we cannot agree on much these days and still we kick God out of every public square.

      • Phillip C Williams

        Mr . Unanue – While I am fortunate to be able to say that my ancestors were not exterminated by Nazis, my Grandfather and his brothers fought them – indeed, he was in the task force that first reached Dachau. One of his brothers died in France in 1944 – all were scarred by their experiences. All of my Grandmother’s brothers but two fought the Nazis – one was sent to the Pacific to fight the Japanese and the other was 4F because of asthma.

        That is why I very much dislike comparisons of the present -day United States and her government to the Third Reich. Whatever rights your family history and the United States Constitution may give you, the 2nd paragraph of your article is an historical distortion which hints that ICE and their agents are comparable to the SS, and their efforts to enforce our laws and protect our borders can be compared to the SS, Gestapo and other elements of the Nazi machine and their roundup of “undesirables.”

        There are no legitimate comparisons or parallels between the Nazis and the ICE’s execution of US Border policy. They are doing the best they can with limited resources and staff, and confusing guidance.

        The recent tragedy involving the little girl who died after being taken into custody invalidates your emotional comparisons – I am certain that the Nazis would not have had the child airlifted to a top-notch pediatric hospital in an attempt to save her life, nor would the Reich or its leaders allowed any kind of investigation afterwards. But many folks would rather place the blame squarely on our ICE agents rather than on the parent who brought his own child on a long, dirty and dangerous journey during the wintertime – and
        who stated that there was nothing wrong with the child when they were initially detained.

        One of the most idiotic “memes” I have seen was one showing a Jewish boy with his forearm tattooed and a Mexican boy in a Border detention facility – with the caption “The only difference is the tattoo”. Anyone who survived the Holocaust or lost family members to it , or anyone who helped to liberate the death camps should take that as a slap in the face – and I sincerely wish that anyone who makes these comparisons had to look a Holocaust survivor or a GI liberator in the eye and repeat their remarks.

  6. B.E. Vickroy

    Hey Guys …. a little therapeutic [for me] nagging. Here us link to PDF excerpt from A PLACE FOR US …. really good read. http://www.wcusd15.org/gudwienm/TeacherGage.pdf — In writing about his beloved English teacher – ”Miss Hurd was one of the first to call me on December 10, 1987, when President Reagan, in his television address after the summit meeting with Gorbachev, told the nation that Eleni Gatzoyiannis’s dying cry, “My children!” had helped inspire him to seek an arms agreement “for all the children of the world.” [his Mom was killed by Greek Communists because she got her children out of the country]

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